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Communism and human nature (Bolshie Mod sez, Arise ye kittens of the earth!)
Bolshie Mod Manifesto ^

Posted on 04/05/2005 10:50:57 AM PDT by Sammy sam

Many argue that communism will never be possible because of "human nature". The essence of this false argument is the belief that a communist society would consist of an all-powerful central government that would tell everybody what to do--and would therefore undermine the creative initiative of individuals and the search for happiness.

• This argument is based on two false assumptions:

(1) It assumes that a communist society will look like the former Soviet Union, or the current China, North Korea, etc (ie: corrupt police states with a feudal-style ruling class) (2) It assumes that people will only work in order to own bigger and bigger piles of commodities.

• The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone. The development of a corrupt police state or a new ruling class will be prevented by the struggles of the masses who will be armed with the weapon of transparency. (2) In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

• An example of communist work relationships is provided by the Linux computer operating system--the core of which was created by many thousands of people--all working for free. A 2nd example is the "work" involved when people post to this forum. No one gets paid to post here--but people do so--because it is an expression of their principles and convictions.

• Who is in control? Under capitalism (and previous economic systems such as feudalism and slavery) only a small fraction of the population has control over their conditions of work--and the life of society as a whole. Only under genuine communism will the masses control their conditions of work--and the culture, economy and politics of society.


TOPICS: Philosophy
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To: Sammy sam
In addition to all of the other excellent reasons posted on this thread, you are completely wrong because in order for your Utopian communist society to work, it cannot tolerate dissent. If everyone cannot agree on what the "common good" is, then the society has to impose its definition on the dissenters. But that removes the voluntary nature of cooperation from those people.

Communes and kibbutzes can work on a small scale because 1) it becomes progressively more difficult to find a common vision and purpose as the size of the community grows, 2) participation in the collective is completely voluntary, and 3) people have the right and ability to leave if the collective no longer shares their goals. None of this is true under your Utopian theory. Those who find themselves out of tune with the collective consciousness must be coerced, shunned, or banned.

61 posted on 04/05/2005 12:02:18 PM PDT by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: Sammy sam
This argument is based on two false assumptions:

The argument is also based on correct assumptions. Here are two assumptions whose correctness you can ponder. 1) The assumption that America is a Republic.
2) The assumption that people have an inherent need to seek excellence in themselves and all things.

The way America acknowledges excellence is to compensate the one responsible. Sometimes the compensation is applause and sometimes it is monetary; and sometimes it is both. The greater the excellence the greater the value of the compensation. It is called Capitalism when a free market monetarily compensates excellence. Capitalism creates competition for the compensation. Competition is the engine that powers Capitalism. Competition provides the people access to the absolutely best possible products the technology can provide and at the absolutely lowest possible cost.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Capitalism in a Republic can be successful and if tempered with a modicum of Christian type morality it can be very successful.

A Republic will slowly degrade to a Democracy, then Socialism, and finally Communism and Communism will then strive to achieve a Republic.
"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms." –Aristotle
This begs the question, having already achieved a constitutional Republic why would one entertain the hasting of Communism?

Lord Thomas Babington Macaulay, author and politician, wrote in a letter to a friend in 1857.

1. From bondage to spiritual faith.
2. From faith to great courage.
3. From courage to liberty.
4. From liberty to abundance.
5. From abundance to complacency.
6. From complacency to selfishness.
7. From selfishness to apathy.
8. From apathy to dependency.
9. And from dependency back again into bondage."

Do you see a pattern?

62 posted on 04/05/2005 12:07:11 PM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: MeekOneGOP

Thanks for the ping. Don't the people at the DU have better things to do?


63 posted on 04/05/2005 12:12:56 PM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: kevkrom

Don't forget killed!


65 posted on 04/05/2005 12:14:16 PM PDT by TrueKnightGalahad (It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye. A S-E)
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To: Sammy sam

THAT'S IT, YOU'RE GONE!!!

66 posted on 04/05/2005 12:16:29 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Molon Labe! FMCDH!)
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To: Sammy sam

67 posted on 04/05/2005 12:18:57 PM PDT by add925 (The Left = Xenophobes in Denial)
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To: MeekOneGOP

What do we got, a KEYWORD bot?


68 posted on 04/05/2005 12:19:34 PM PDT by b4its2late (Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.)
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To: Sammy sam
So, you want to bring back communism after it killed 100 Million people? Go away now!

Good bye troll!


69 posted on 04/05/2005 12:21:32 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: Jimmyclyde

I was thinking (almost, practically) the same thing! Well, without the JD or the porn, but it was similar.

And it sure wasn't trash pickup or being a grunt at the waste treatment plant.


70 posted on 04/05/2005 12:22:36 PM PDT by SoVaDPJ
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To: Sammy sam
And look who's going to make it all possible!


71 posted on 04/05/2005 12:23:14 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Everything that I've written on it for the past two years is GONE!)
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To: mozrock
I would really, REALLY like to know what was actually meant by that! PLEASE mods, let them back if not just to explain that!! Weapons of transparency ....wtf?!?!


72 posted on 04/05/2005 12:26:30 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Everything that I've written on it for the past two years is GONE!)
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To: SoVaDPJ
I was thinking (almost, practically) the same thing! Well, without the JD or the porn, but it was similar.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating JD or porn all day, just making a point by being absurd.

73 posted on 04/05/2005 12:26:32 PM PDT by Jimmyclyde (Dying ain't much of a living boy...)
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To: MEG33; dubyaismypresident; 4mycountry; Pan_Yans Wife; Charlie OK; E Rocc; dirtboy; Alas Babylon!; ..
Check the number of keywords added since the thread started.
74 posted on 04/05/2005 12:31:49 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (TV News and the MSM - - - ROTFLMAO)
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To: Sammy sam

Kitty sez: Your Eutopia (sp intentional) depends on everyone having the same internal wiring that leads them to the good of the whole. The only way to achieve this is through a long and complicated process of social engineering, in which the state engineers first take over the schools, the arts, the media and the... Oh cr@p! We're on our way!

75 posted on 04/05/2005 12:31:52 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Everything that I've written on it for the past two years is GONE!)
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To: Sammy sam

76 posted on 04/05/2005 12:31:57 PM PDT by RushCrush (My tagline escapes me.)
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To: Arrowhead1952

LOL. Looks worse than the original undead thread.


77 posted on 04/05/2005 12:33:26 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line is being held in protective custody.)
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To: Jimmyclyde

Gee, I read your original post several times, and STILL don't see anything absurd in it. 'Splain, please??? ;-)


78 posted on 04/05/2005 12:35:25 PM PDT by TrueKnightGalahad (It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye. A S-E)
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To: Sammy sam
All your Nukes ARE Belong to Us!!!!

ZOT!

PWND!

79 posted on 04/05/2005 12:37:32 PM PDT by KoRn (~Halliburton Told Me......)
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To: Arrowhead1952

Maybe this Thread will get an award for most keywords!

Is there such a thing?


80 posted on 04/05/2005 12:37:47 PM PDT by Mrs.Nooseman
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