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Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas?
ASA On Line ^ | unknown

Posted on 12/17/2001 2:22:22 PM PST by blam

Calico: A 200,000-year old site in the Americas?

New World archaeological sites inferred to be even slightly older than the 11.5 ka Clovis complexes have been controversial; so claims for a 200 ka site in North America have heretofore been treated with substantial disdain. But the acceptance of Monte Verde and Diring may soon change that.

The classic "ancient site" in the New World is "Calico," located in the Central Mojave Desert of California (Shlemon and Budinger, 1990). Two issues have dogged acceptance of Calico by mainstream archaeologists: (1) the authenticity of the artifacts; are they truly the product of human manufacture, or merely naturally produced "geofacts?" and (2) the obvious pre-Clovis age of the deposits (see, for example, lengthy discussions in Leakey and others, 1968; Haynes, 1973; Bryan, 1978; Taylor and Payen, 1975; Carter, 1980; Meighen, 1983; Patterson, 1983; and Budinger and Simpson, 1985).

Thought to be about 200 ka old, the deeply buried chert and chalcedony tools of Calico are usually dismissed as being artifacts. However, if shown to respected Old World archaeologists, many Calico assemblages are readily described as typical Paleolithic implements. Regardless, when told that the ancient tools come from the New World, these same archaeologists then often reject their original interpretation! So much for unbiased reasoning in science! Nevertheless, although it will take time, the pre-Clovis Monte Verde site in Chile and the 260 ka Diring site in Siberia may well provide a "stepping stone" for mainstream archaeological acceptance of the Calico site.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: California
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; americaneden; americanorigin; americas; ancientnavigation; archaeology; artifacts; australia; bering; brucebradley; calico; california; clovis; dennisstanford; dillehay; diringsite; dna; geofacts; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mojavedesert; mtdna; multiregionalism; nagpra; navigation; neandertal; paleolithic; paleontology; preclovis; precolumbian; primates; replacement; siberia; solutrean; solutreans; tomdillehay; youngerdryas
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To: PIF
The latest (11 YO) posted on the Cuban site.

Update On Deep Water Megalithic Stones and Structures Near Western Cuba

141 posted on 12/08/2014 10:40:56 PM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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To: blam
FWIW: Frank Collin is no longer there - AA seems to be run by the May family. Looking bck at the few issues I did purchace, May was the Publisher and Collin is nowhere to be found as Editor. This is the current list of people at AA: The Voice Of Alternative Viewpoints Wayne N. May - Publisher Lawrence Gallan - Editor Meg Vogel - Assistant Editor Roger Waller - Art Director Millie Price - Copy Editor Ephraim James - Production Mgr. Kristine May - Circulation Mgr. Roger A. Grawe - Fulfillment Mgr. Joshua K. May - Marketing Mgr. Wayne N. May - Advertising Mgr. Steven Braker - Staff Photographer Alexander Lukats - Staff Photographer Roger Waller - Webmaster Frank Joseph - Correspondent ....Advisors.... William Donato, Ma, President The Atlantis Organization Buena Park, California Andrew E. Rothovius The Gungywamp Society Milford, New Hampshire Glen De Vlaminck Ancient Artifact Preservation Society Marquette, Michigan Dr. James P. Scherz Ancient Earthworks Society Madison, Wisconsin Dr. John J.White, Iii Midwest Epigraphical Society Columbus, Ohio
142 posted on 12/09/2014 5:13:23 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: blam

Too bad the actual page is for subscribers and that the images posted into FR are inaccessible.


143 posted on 12/09/2014 5:14:29 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: blam; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks; Coyoteman; All

I am really enjoying reading the comments from this 2001 FR post. I came to the GGG ping list 5 years later, and see I have missed a lot. I also get the impression that the quality of comments has deteriorated over time. An occasional joke line is fine, but comment after comment with no content, and the link becomes boring. What a shame.


144 posted on 02/23/2015 12:35:30 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

Sad, so many freepers who commented on that thread have been banned.

Here’s a link to one of my favourites:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1989265/posts


145 posted on 02/23/2015 1:28:40 PM PST by Fred Nerks
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To: gleeaikin
"I am really enjoying reading the comments from this 2001 FR post. I came to the GGG ping list 5 years later, and see I have missed a lot. I also get the impression that the quality of comments has deteriorated over time. An occasional joke line is fine, but comment after comment with no content, and the link becomes boring. What a shame."

YUP.

The very reason I don't post near as much as I once did. Some of the religious folks were pretty disruptive too.

146 posted on 02/23/2015 3:26:11 PM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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To: Fred Nerks; blam; SunkenCiv; All

Why were so many of the PhDs and others banned? How did you avoid the same fate? Feel free to private message me if you don’t want to tell the world. I’ll be discrete.


147 posted on 02/24/2015 12:47:39 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

I really have no idea, I just went back through the thread and checked on the names, many have been banned, some haven’t posted for years = and I was never active enough to draw attention to myself...I guess.

Maybe when science and dogma conflict the result is annihilation?


148 posted on 02/24/2015 3:25:14 AM PST by Fred Nerks
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To: gleeaikin; Fred Nerks; SunkenCiv
There was a gradual escalation of the conflict between the science guys and the religious people and some of the science guys reached the 'tipping-point' and used the wrong language which caused Jim to ban them....this just inflamed the situation further and, more language, more banning,etc.

Many of the science guys just up and quit in support of those banned.

I was able to hold my tongue through all the fighting.

FYI, Jim had been ocassionally banning the serious religious disrupters to my science threads through all my posting history. One particularly persistent disrupter, FReeper 'f.Christian' was banned by Jim.
(I'm told) He went on a criticizing campaign against both me and Jim on other conservative sites. I seriously considering leaving FR too. So.....(Everybody Lost!)

149 posted on 02/24/2015 11:27:13 AM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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To: blam; Fred Nerks; gleeaikin

I’m still finding bullet holes in the plaster from that one.

Mary Hopkin — Those Were The Days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE


150 posted on 02/24/2015 11:52:25 AM PST by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
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To: blam; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks; Coyoteman; JimSEA; PIF; All

I have a friend who manages two web sites. One is a meet-up and the other a subject matter blog, kind of like a ping list. He had to eject one person for persistent malicious language, and was concerned about some rather insulting arguing that was going on among others. He finally prepared lists for each site of appropriate and inappropriate conduct/language which he enforces. He is going to send these to me for my own information. I am wondering if something can be resurrected from the ashes of these past banishments. Would Jim be willing to let people back on after a year of banishment if they agree to follow some code of appropriate commentary? Would past members want to come back if this were done?

I remember participating in some rather lengthy arguments here (ggg) regarding Noah’s Ark and some evolution ideas. It is a shame that people don’t understand the difference between belief (faith) and evidence (science). It is hard enough to have to argue with people about evidence who stick to one point because they have not looked for additional evidence (Clovis comes to mind); and then in addition have to deal with people who don’t understand that belief is NOT the same thing as evidence, and thus deserves to be ignored in such arguments. As I said earlier, it is a shame that so much interesting discussion and information has been removed from our circle, and I hope perhaps some of it can be restored.


151 posted on 02/24/2015 1:27:53 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: ancientscribe; blam; SunkenCiv; All

I’m glad Waters is willing to consider that peopling of the Americas may go back as far as 25,000 years ago. On the other hand there is no reason to think it may not go back much farther than that. After all, with Ice Ages striking roughly every 100,000 years, who knows how many times huminoids built up to a relatively advanced cultural state and then were blown away by some catastrophe, or centuries of unsurvivable climate, and then had to start all over when conditions finally improved again. I’m glad that people are finally looking under water, considering that many people settle by the water and so much that was exposed previously is now covered by melt.


152 posted on 02/24/2015 1:37:34 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

I doubt that most people spend more than a couple of years on most sites where they participate. :’)


153 posted on 02/24/2015 1:43:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
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To: gleeaikin

:’) Until someone actually bothered to look, to dig deeper, Japanese science had the view that there was nothing in Japan prior to the Neolithic.


154 posted on 02/24/2015 1:44:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
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To: gleeaikin
"Would past members want to come back if this were done?"

Nah, they're done. Some started this blog and are still there Darwin Central.

I started the Ancient Encounters section on the science page. It was slow, I just drifted away.

Coyote there, was our own practicing archaeologist, FReeper Coyoteman here. I really miss him most.

155 posted on 02/24/2015 6:09:30 PM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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To: gleeaikin
"After all, with Ice Ages striking roughly every 100,000 years, who knows how many times huminoids built up to a relatively advanced cultural state and then were blown away by some catastrophe, or centuries of unsurvivable climate, and then had to start all over when conditions finally improved again. I’m glad that people are finally looking under water, considering that many people settle by the water and so much that was exposed previously is now covered by melt."

Read this:

Eden In The East

156 posted on 02/24/2015 6:14:48 PM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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157 posted on 03/15/2015 7:26:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
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from the following keywords: duplicates out, sorted newest to oldest, MOST have the year or entire date in brackets -- those which do not were gleaned from a post in one of the topics, and lack any of the above keywords but are nevertheless relevant.
158 posted on 05/15/2016 12:19:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (I'll tell you what's wrong with society -- no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Note: this topic is from 12/17/2001. Thanks blam. Just a re-ping, did the message with no ping last year. Also note, the post before this one has a big pile of sorted links related to this.

159 posted on 05/15/2016 12:31:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (I'll tell you what's wrong with society -- no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.)
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To: blam

Might explain why the old mining town is haunted.


160 posted on 05/15/2016 12:33:51 PM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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