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Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas?
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Posted on 12/17/2001 2:22:22 PM PST by blam
Calico: A 200,000-year old site in the Americas?
New World archaeological sites inferred to be even slightly older than the 11.5 ka Clovis complexes have been controversial; so claims for a 200 ka site in North America have heretofore been treated with substantial disdain. But the acceptance of Monte Verde and Diring may soon change that.
The classic "ancient site" in the New World is "Calico," located in the Central Mojave Desert of California (Shlemon and Budinger, 1990). Two issues have dogged acceptance of Calico by mainstream archaeologists: (1) the authenticity of the artifacts; are they truly the product of human manufacture, or merely naturally produced "geofacts?" and (2) the obvious pre-Clovis age of the deposits (see, for example, lengthy discussions in Leakey and others, 1968; Haynes, 1973; Bryan, 1978; Taylor and Payen, 1975; Carter, 1980; Meighen, 1983; Patterson, 1983; and Budinger and Simpson, 1985).
Thought to be about 200 ka old, the deeply buried chert and chalcedony tools of Calico are usually dismissed as being artifacts. However, if shown to respected Old World archaeologists, many Calico assemblages are readily described as typical Paleolithic implements. Regardless, when told that the ancient tools come from the New World, these same archaeologists then often reject their original interpretation! So much for unbiased reasoning in science! Nevertheless, although it will take time, the pre-Clovis Monte Verde site in Chile and the 260 ka Diring site in Siberia may well provide a "stepping stone" for mainstream archaeological acceptance of the Calico site.
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: California
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; americaneden; americanorigin; americas; ancientnavigation; archaeology; artifacts; australia; bering; brucebradley; calico; california; clovis; dennisstanford; dillehay; diringsite; dna; geofacts; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mojavedesert; mtdna; multiregionalism; nagpra; navigation; neandertal; paleolithic; paleontology; preclovis; precolumbian; primates; replacement; siberia; solutrean; solutreans; tomdillehay; youngerdryas
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To: PIF
141
posted on
12/08/2014 10:40:56 PM PST
by
blam
(Jeff Sessions For President)
To: blam
FWIW: Frank Collin is no longer there - AA seems to be run by the May family. Looking bck at the few issues I did purchace, May was the Publisher and Collin is nowhere to be found as Editor. This is the current list of people at AA: The Voice Of Alternative Viewpoints Wayne N. May - Publisher Lawrence Gallan - Editor Meg Vogel - Assistant Editor Roger Waller - Art Director Millie Price - Copy Editor Ephraim James - Production Mgr. Kristine May - Circulation Mgr. Roger A. Grawe - Fulfillment Mgr. Joshua K. May - Marketing Mgr. Wayne N. May - Advertising Mgr. Steven Braker - Staff Photographer Alexander Lukats - Staff Photographer Roger Waller - Webmaster Frank Joseph - Correspondent ....Advisors.... William Donato, Ma, President The Atlantis Organization Buena Park, California Andrew E. Rothovius The Gungywamp Society Milford, New Hampshire Glen De Vlaminck Ancient Artifact Preservation Society Marquette, Michigan Dr. James P. Scherz Ancient Earthworks Society Madison, Wisconsin Dr. John J.White, Iii Midwest Epigraphical Society Columbus, Ohio
142
posted on
12/09/2014 5:13:23 AM PST
by
PIF
(They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
To: blam
Too bad the actual page is for subscribers and that the images posted into FR are inaccessible.
143
posted on
12/09/2014 5:14:29 AM PST
by
PIF
(They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
To: blam; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks; Coyoteman; All
I am really enjoying reading the comments from this 2001 FR post. I came to the GGG ping list 5 years later, and see I have missed a lot. I also get the impression that the quality of comments has deteriorated over time. An occasional joke line is fine, but comment after comment with no content, and the link becomes boring. What a shame.
To: gleeaikin
To: gleeaikin
"I am really enjoying reading the comments from this 2001 FR post. I came to the GGG ping list 5 years later, and see I have missed a lot. I also get the impression that the quality of comments has deteriorated over time. An occasional joke line is fine, but comment after comment with no content, and the link becomes boring. What a shame." YUP.
The very reason I don't post near as much as I once did. Some of the religious folks were pretty disruptive too.
146
posted on
02/23/2015 3:26:11 PM PST
by
blam
(Jeff Sessions For President)
To: Fred Nerks; blam; SunkenCiv; All
Why were so many of the PhDs and others banned? How did you avoid the same fate? Feel free to private message me if you don’t want to tell the world. I’ll be discrete.
To: gleeaikin
I really have no idea, I just went back through the thread and checked on the names, many have been banned, some haven’t posted for years = and I was never active enough to draw attention to myself...I guess.
Maybe when science and dogma conflict the result is annihilation?
To: gleeaikin; Fred Nerks; SunkenCiv
There was a gradual escalation of the conflict between the science guys and the religious people and some of the science guys reached the 'tipping-point' and used the wrong language which caused Jim to ban them....this just inflamed the situation further and, more language, more banning,etc.
Many of the science guys just up and quit in support of those banned.
I was able to hold my tongue through all the fighting.
FYI, Jim had been ocassionally banning the serious religious disrupters to my science threads through all my posting history. One particularly persistent disrupter, FReeper 'f.Christian' was banned by Jim.
(I'm told) He went on a criticizing campaign against both me and Jim on other conservative sites. I seriously considering leaving FR too. So.....(Everybody Lost!)
149
posted on
02/24/2015 11:27:13 AM PST
by
blam
(Jeff Sessions For President)
To: blam; Fred Nerks; gleeaikin
150
posted on
02/24/2015 11:52:25 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
To: blam; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks; Coyoteman; JimSEA; PIF; All
I have a friend who manages two web sites. One is a meet-up and the other a subject matter blog, kind of like a ping list. He had to eject one person for persistent malicious language, and was concerned about some rather insulting arguing that was going on among others. He finally prepared lists for each site of appropriate and inappropriate conduct/language which he enforces. He is going to send these to me for my own information. I am wondering if something can be resurrected from the ashes of these past banishments. Would Jim be willing to let people back on after a year of banishment if they agree to follow some code of appropriate commentary? Would past members want to come back if this were done?
I remember participating in some rather lengthy arguments here (ggg) regarding Noah’s Ark and some evolution ideas. It is a shame that people don’t understand the difference between belief (faith) and evidence (science). It is hard enough to have to argue with people about evidence who stick to one point because they have not looked for additional evidence (Clovis comes to mind); and then in addition have to deal with people who don’t understand that belief is NOT the same thing as evidence, and thus deserves to be ignored in such arguments. As I said earlier, it is a shame that so much interesting discussion and information has been removed from our circle, and I hope perhaps some of it can be restored.
To: ancientscribe; blam; SunkenCiv; All
I’m glad Waters is willing to consider that peopling of the Americas may go back as far as 25,000 years ago. On the other hand there is no reason to think it may not go back much farther than that. After all, with Ice Ages striking roughly every 100,000 years, who knows how many times huminoids built up to a relatively advanced cultural state and then were blown away by some catastrophe, or centuries of unsurvivable climate, and then had to start all over when conditions finally improved again. I’m glad that people are finally looking under water, considering that many people settle by the water and so much that was exposed previously is now covered by melt.
To: gleeaikin
I doubt that most people spend more than a couple of years on most sites where they participate. :’)
153
posted on
02/24/2015 1:43:01 PM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
To: gleeaikin
:’) Until someone actually bothered to look, to dig deeper, Japanese science had the view that there was nothing in Japan prior to the Neolithic.
154
posted on
02/24/2015 1:44:13 PM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
To: gleeaikin
"Would past members want to come back if this were done?"Nah, they're done. Some started this blog and are still there Darwin Central.
I started the Ancient Encounters section on the science page. It was slow, I just drifted away.
Coyote there, was our own practicing archaeologist, FReeper Coyoteman here. I really miss him most.
155
posted on
02/24/2015 6:09:30 PM PST
by
blam
(Jeff Sessions For President)
To: gleeaikin
"After all, with Ice Ages striking roughly every 100,000 years, who knows how many times huminoids built up to a relatively advanced cultural state and then were blown away by some catastrophe, or centuries of unsurvivable climate, and then had to start all over when conditions finally improved again. Im glad that people are finally looking under water, considering that many people settle by the water and so much that was exposed previously is now covered by melt."Read this:
Eden In The East
156
posted on
02/24/2015 6:14:48 PM PST
by
blam
(Jeff Sessions For President)
157
posted on
03/15/2015 7:26:02 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW!)
from the following keywords:
duplicates out, sorted newest to oldest, MOST have the year or entire date in brackets -- those which do not were gleaned from a post in one of the topics, and lack any of the above keywords but are nevertheless relevant.
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- Discoveries Challenge Beliefs on Humans' Arrival in the Americas [2014]
- Searching for the Amazon's Hidden Civilizations [2014]
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- Fossilized human feces hints at long-lost, 13,500-year-old West Coast culture [2012]
- Native Americans descended from three Asian groups: study [2012]
- New evidence suggests Cabot may have known of New World before voyage [2012]
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- Evidence of the earliest human activity found in Chile's south [2012]
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- How Mammoths Lost The Extinction Lottery
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- Scientists reveal a first in Ice Age art
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- Scientists' amazing California discovery includes fishing tackle 12,000 years old [2011]
- Scientists' amazing California discovery includes fishing tackle 12,000 years old [2011]
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- Ancient Seafood Buffet Uncovered on Channel Islands [2011]
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- Old dog, new tricks: Study IDs 9,400-year-old mutt [2011]
- Stone age etchings found in Amazon basin as river levels fall [2010]
- No evidence for Clovis comet catastrophe, archaeologists say
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- Divers find prehistoric artifacts in North Port spring [ 10K yrs BP ]
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- Cherokees Spoke Greek and Came from East Mediterranean [2010]
- Fungi, Feces Show Comet Didn't Kill Ice Age Mammals?
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- First Americans arrived as 2 separate migrations, according to new genetic evidence [2009]
- Did a Comet Hit Earth 12000 Years Ago?
- Superdirt Made Lost Amazon Cities Possible [2008]
- Prehistoric Oregon latrine trove of fossil DNA [2008]
- First Humans To Settle Americas Came From Europe, Not From Asia.... [2008]
- Oregon Discovery Challenges Beliefs About First Humans [2008]
- Ancient Stone Tools Found In South Carolina (Topper) [2008]
- Will Work At Allendale County Archaeological Dig (Topper) Rewrite Human History? [2008]
- Did Humans Colonize The World By Boat
- Renovating A Historic Home (16K YO Meadowcroft Rockshelter)
- Al Goodyear And The Secrets Of Ancient Americans
- First Americans Thrived On Seaweed [2008]
- Finding Pre-Clovis Humans in the Oregon High Desert [2008]
- Fossil Feces Push Back Earliest Date of Humans in Americas [2008]
- Fossilized feces found in Oregon suggest earliest human presence in North America [2008]
- Bison Bones Bolster Idea Ice Age Seafarers First To Americas [03/24/2008]
- Indian DNA Links To 6 'Founding Mothers' [2008]
- Andean Crops Cultivated Almost 10,000 Years Ago [2008]
- Archaeologists Find Mysterious Neolithic Structure In Orkney Dig [12/20/2007]
- Does Skull Prove That The First Americans Came From Europe? [11/24/2007]
- Site Provides Evidence For Ancient Comet Explosion (Topper -- SC)
- Constructing The Solutrean Solution [08/28/2007]
- Trying To Fathom Farmings Origins [08/15/2007]
- Comet Theory Collides With Clovis Research, May Explain ...
- Squash grown 10,000 years ago in Peru [2007]
- Did comet start deadly cold snap? [2007]
- Ancient Canals Reveal Underpinnings of Early Andean Civilization [2007]
- Archaeologists Find 3 Prehistoric Bodies In SE Mexico (Tulum -- 10-14.5k YO) [2007]
- Paper challenges 1491 Amazonian population theories [2007]
- Experts doubt Clovis people were first in Americas [02/23/2007]
- Archaeologists To Return To Allendale Site In May (Topper -- 50000 ...
- Archaeologists Explain Significance Of The Walker Site (Minnesota) [2007]
- Bering land bridge theory disputed [2007]
- Out of Africa... and into Russia
- Archaeologist's Find Could Shake Up Science (Topper Site) [2007]
- Penon Woman
- The African Source Of The Amazon's Fertilizer [2006]
- Grant to fund shelter for archaeological site shelter where prehistoric remains unearthed in '70s [2006]
- Putting the carbon back: Black is the new green [2006]
- Amazon rainforest 'could become a desert' [2006]
- Another 'Stonehenge' discovered in Amazon [2006]
- Affinities Of The Paleoindians [2006]
- First Americans
- NOVA · Mystery of the Megaflood · PBS [2006]
- 'Amazon Stonehenge' found in Brazil [2006]
- 'Brazilian Stonehenge' discovered [2006]
- Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link [2006]
- Archaeologist says Va. bolsters claim on how people got to America [Solutrean] [05/10/2006]
- Impossibly Old America?
- Did first Americans come from Europe? [2006]
- First Americans May Have Been European [02/19/2006]
- Reproducing the Amazon's black soil could bolster fertility and remove carbon from atmosphere [2006]
- New analysis shows three human migrations out of Africa, Replacement theory demolished [02/10/2006]
- Origins Of The Ainu [02/02/2006]
- Oregon State University Archaeologists Uncover 10000 Year Old ...
- Neanderthal Man Floated Into Europe, Say Spanish Researchers [01/16/2006]
- Oldest Hominid Skull In Australia Found Near Bega (7 Million Years Old) [01/13/2006]
- A Talk With Colin Renfrew [The Third Culture, The Three Dimensions of Human History] [01/12/2006]
- Whence the First Americans? [2006]
- Evidence Found for Canals That Watered Ancient Peru [2006]
- Did Early Humans First Arise in Asia, Not Africa? [12/28/2005]
- Not Out Of Africa But Regional Continuity [12/16/2005]
- Skull Study Suggests at Least Two Groups Colonized America [2005]
- Stone Age Columbus [12/15/2005]
- Ancient Tools At High Desert Site Go Back 135,000 Years (California) [11/24/2005]
- Kennewick Man, Meet Your Distant Cousins
- African cousins behind extinction of Indians 70,000 years ago! [11/06/2005]
- Scientist: Comets Blasted Early Americans
- Clovis Speakers Discuss Man's Origins In The United States
- Georgians Claim to Unearth Ancient Skull [08/22/2005]
- Mexican footprints cause scientific stir [2005]
- 40,000-year-old footprint of first Americans [07/05/2005]
- Footsteps in time that add 30,000 years to history of America [07/05/2005]
- Faithful Ancestors [06/17/2005]
- 400,000-Year-Old Stone Tools Discovered In Mazandaran (Iran) [06/08/2005]
- Lost Society Tore Itself Apart (Moche) [2005]
- Tribes Appeal Kennewick Man Ruling, Seek Role In Future Finds [2005]
- Field Between Tecate, Ensenada Yields Tools (Ancient Hunters In Baja) [2005]
- 12,000-Year-Old Bones Found in Kansas [2005]
- Discovery Could Change Dates For Human Arrival On The Great Plains [2005]
- Archaeologists Eagerly Home In On Parker Digs (Colorado -- 5K YA) [2005]
- Evidence May Back Human Sacrifice Claims [2005]
- Bison Bone Discovery Turns B.C. History Upside-Down [2005]
- Archaeologists push back beginning of civilization in Americas 400 years [2004]
- Catastrophic Flooding From Ancient Lake May Have Triggered Cold Period [2004]
- (South Carolina) Fire Pit Dated To Over 50000 Years Old (More)
- Archeologist finds evidence of humans in North America 50000 ...
- 5,000 Year-Old Artifacts (Found) Near Texas Coast [2004]
- The Mandans [2004]
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- Vikings/Norse in Minnesota [2004]
- Giant asteroid rocked Antarctica [10/18/2004]
- Archaeologist Continues To Dig Up History (Meadowcroft, 16K Year Old) [2004]
- Extinct humans left louse legacy(Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens) [2004]
- Mexico Discovery Fuels Debate About Man's Origins [2004]
- Measure could block Kennewick Man study [2004]
- Retracing the footprints of time [09/30/2004]
- First Mariners [09/25/2004]
- First Americans -- Homo Erectus in America [09/24/2004]
- The Solutrean SolutionDid Some Ancient Americans Come from Europe? [09/24/2004]
- Signs of an earlier American [2004]
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- Stone Age Columbus -- Questions And Answers [08/22/2004]
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- Maryland Dig May Reach Back 16,000 Years [2004]
- Myth of the Hunter-Gatherer [2004]
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- Dingo's Origins Tracked By DNA [2004]
- The Antiquity of Man in America: Natural History (Pick from the Past) · May-June 1927 [07/21/2004]
- New Wrangle Over Kennewick (Man) Bones [2004]
- 'Scientific American' Shines Spotlight On SC Dig (Topper Site -- TV ...
- New Twist On Out-Of-Africa Theory [07/14/2004]
- The Oldest Americans May Prove Even Older
- Bird's-Eye View Of The Amazon (Airborne Archaeologist Challenges The Myth Of A Pristine Wilderness) [2004]
- Israeli Site Yields 750,000 Year Old Fire Evidence [04/29/2004]
- Archaeologist Talks About Oregon's Early Natives [2004]
- Seafaring Clue To First Americans [02/26/2004]
- Invasion of the Kennewick Men [02/23/2004]
- Island Hopping To A New World [02/18/2004]
- Clovis Man Turns 75, Plus 13,000 [2004]
- Kennewick Man Speaks [2004]
- Science Trumps Ritual in Mystery Skeleton Row [Kennewick Man] [2004]
- Neanderthal Extinction Pieced Together [01/27/2004]
- Workers Find Signs Of 7,500-Year-Old Civilization While Building Water Plant (Mass.) [2004]
- Big Chill Killed Off The Neanderthals [2004]
- Melting ice in Yukon reveals ancient hunting artifacts [2004]
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- Arctic Dig Unearths Prehistoric Settlement [01/02/2004]
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- Norse Stone Authenticity Put To Test (Kensington Runestone) [2003]
- New Study On Peopling Of Americas Confirms Some Theories, Unsettles Others [2003]
- Earliest Stone Tools And Bones Site Discovered [11/04/2003]
- Debate Heats Up On Role Of Climate In Human Evolution [11/03/2003]
- Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?) [11/02/2003]
- Stranger In A New Land (Archaeology) [11/01/2003]
- Erectus Ahoy (Stone Age Voyages) [10/22/2003]
- Ancient rock carved faces found: Sign of lost race, or geological processes? [10/20/2003]
- Clueless About Columbus [2003]
- Ancient remains found in central Florida peat farm [2003]
- Amazonian find stuns researchers [2003]
- Ancient Amazon Settlements Uncovered [2003]
- Skeleton Case Challeges 'Native American' [2003]
- US colonisation (.nz sp) given new twist [2003]
- Narrow Skulls Clue To First Americans [2003]
- Skulls Found In Mexico Suggest Early Americans Would Have Said 'G'Day Mate' [2003]
- Early Settlement Site in Pa. Debated [2003]
- Why Humans and Their Fur Parted Ways [08/19/2003]
- European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover) [2003]
- Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida) [2003]
- Discovery casts doubt on Bering land bridge theory [08/04/2003]
- Diving to Prove Indians Lived on the Continental Shelf [2003]
- Tribes, Archaeologists At Odds Over Cemetery [2003]
- Peopling of the Americas: Late Date for Siberian Site Challenges Bering Pathway [07/25/2003]
- Date Limit Set On First Americans [2003]
- First Americans [2003]
- (Prince) Madoc In America [2003]
- 'First Americans Were Australian' [2003]
- Area Sites Used To Dispute Clovis/Extinction Link [2003]
- The Ultimate Sidebar Management Thread [2003]
- Javanese Fossil Skull Provides New Insights into Ancient Humans [02/28/2003]
- Evidence Aquits Clovis People Of Ancient Killings, Archaeologists Say [02/25/2003]
- 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocks study of Kennewick Man bones! (they just won't let it go!) [2003]
- Court Blocks Study Of Ancient Bones Pending Appeal (Kennewick Man) [2003]
- Vintage Skulls [2003]
- An origin of new world agriculture in coastal Ecuador (12,000 BP) [2003]
- Documentary Redraws Humans' Family Tree [2003]
- Tribes Fail To Halt Study Of Ancient Skeleton (Kennewick Man) [2003]
- Scientist: Oldest American skull found [2002]
- Sabre-tooths and Hominids [11/22/2002]
- World's Dogs Are Descended From Asian Wolves [2002]
- When People Fled Hyenas [2002]
- Editorial on wolves [2002]
- Archaeologists Split Hairs Over First Arrivals (Oregon, 12K Year Old Non-Indian Hair) [2002]
- First Americans [10/06/2002]
- Judge: Group Should Get Skeleton (Kennewick Man) [2002]
- Kennewick Man is awarded to scientists [2002]
- Rainforest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming 11K Years Ago in South America) [2002]
- Skulls Found in Africa and in Europe Challenge Theories of Human Origins [08/11/2002]
- Who Really Discovered America? [2002]
- Human settlements far older than suspected discovered in South America. [2002]
- Archeological Mysteries: Connecticut "Boat" Cairn [2002]
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- Probe Into Cuba's Possible 'Sunken City' Advances [2002]
- Pre-Columbian Ruins Could Be A Pyramid [2002]
- New evidence we all have the same ancestors: Cal students discovery should resolve dispute [03/22/2002]
- Theory on origins of man gets genetic overhaul [03/07/2002]
- Our Species Mated With Other Human Species, Study Says [03/06/2002]
- Explorer From China Who 'Beat Columbus To America' [2002]
- Kenosha Dig Points to Europe as Origin of First Americans [03/04/2002]
- New Out-Of-Africa Theory Unveiled [02/27/2002]
- American Neanderthal? [2002]
- Who Were the First Americans? [2002]
- Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species [01/10/2002]
- Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas? [12/17/2001]
- Evidence of ancient city found in depths off Cuba (best article yet) [2001]
- The First Americans May Have Come By Water
- The Dixie Dingo [2001]
- Original Texans [2001]
- Free Republic "Bump List" Register [2001]
- New Evidence for Multiregional Origins [09/05/2001]
158
posted on
05/15/2016 12:19:37 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(I'll tell you what's wrong with society -- no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.)
To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Note: this topic is from 12/17/2001. Thanks blam. Just a re-ping, did the message with no ping last year. Also note, the post before this one has a big pile of sorted links related to this.
159
posted on
05/15/2016 12:31:19 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(I'll tell you what's wrong with society -- no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.)
To: blam
Might explain why the old mining town is haunted.
160
posted on
05/15/2016 12:33:51 PM PDT
by
BenLurkin
(The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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