Anthropologist resigns in 'dating disaster'

Worlnetdaily ^ | February 19, 2005 | unattributed

[Woodworker]

Panel says professor of human origins made up data, plagiarized works

A flamboyant anthropology professor, whose work had been cited as evidence Neanderthal man once lived in Northern Europe, has resigned after a German university panel ruled he fabricated data and plagiarized the works of his colleagues. Reiner Protsch von Zieten, a Frankfurt university panel ruled, lied about the age of human skulls, dating them tens of thousands of years old, even though they were much younger, reports Deutsche Welle. "The commission finds that Prof. Protsch has forged and manipulated scientific facts over the past 30 years," the university said of the widely recognized expert in carbon data in a prepared statement.

Protsch's work first came under suspicion last year during a routine investigation of German prehistoric remains by two other anthropologists. "We had decided to subject many of these finds to modern techniques to check their authenticity so we sent them to Oxford [University] for testing," one of the researchers told The Sunday Telegraph. "It was a routine examination and in no way an attempt to discredit Prof. von Zieten." In their report, they called Protsch's 30 years of work a "dating disaster."

Among their findings was an age of only 3,300 years for the female "Bischof-Speyer" skeleton, found with unusually good teeth in Northern Germany, that Protsch dated to 21,300 years. Another dating error was identified for a skull found near Paderborn, Germany, that Protsch dated at 27,400 years old. It was believed to be the oldest human remain found in the region until the Oxford investigations indicated it belonged to an elderly man who died in 1750. The Herne anthropological museum, which owned the Paderborn skull, did its own tests following the unsettling results. "We had the skull cut open and it still smelt," said the museum's director. "We are naturally very disappointed."

Protsch, known for his love of Cuban cigars and Porsches, did not comment on the commission's findings, but in January he told the Frankfurter Neue Presse, "This was a court of inquisition. They don't have a single piece of hard evidence against me." The fallout from Protsch's false dating of northern European bone finds is only beginning.

Chris Stringer, a Stone Age specialist and head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum, said: "What was considered a major piece of evidence showing that the Neanderthals once lived in northern Europe has fallen by the wayside. We are having to rewrite prehistory." "Anthropology now has to revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 B.C.," added Thomas Terberger, an archaeologist at the University of Greifswald. Frankfurt University's president, Rudolf Steinberg, apologized for the university's failure to curb Protsch's misconduct for decades. "A lot of people looked the other way," he said.

[grey_whiskers]

No, I don't. You can blame your first posting of the out-of-context quotes on ignorance, but when you did it again after having it explained to you why they didn't prove anything, you became a liar.

Not necessarily. It depends on whether he first took the time and trouble to double-check your claims that the links involved quote-mining (I've never done this, so I'm not sure how long it would take); or if he just blew you off since he was P.O.'d himself (not lying, just stubbornness or being sufficently offended or closed-minded); or if he really did know better after you warned him.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

“Structure, metamorphism, sedimentary reworking, and other complications have to be considered. Radiometric dating would not have been feasible if the geologic column had not been erected first.” J.E. O’Rourke, “Pragmatism vs. Materialism in Stratigraphy,” American Jouranl of Science, vol. 276 (January, 1976), p. 54

I just wish it'd been P.J. O'Rourke. :-)

Cheers!

[RaceBannon]

Carbon dating is flawed. Wood freshly cut out of living trees has been carbon dated at 10,000 years, and living mollusks (such as snails) dated at 2,300 years. Carbon dating falsely assumes a constant rate of decay.
B. Huber, "Recording Gaseous Exchange Under Field Conditions," in Physiology of Forest Trees, ed. by K.V. Thimann, 1958; M. Keith and G. Anderson, "Radiocarbon Dating: Fictitious Results with Mollusk Shells," in Science, 141, 1963, p. 634

excerpted:
THE PROBLEMS WITH

CARBON-14 DATING

---

Carbon-14 dating is the standard method used by scientists to determine the age of certain fossilized remains. As scientists will often claim something to be millions or billions of years old (ages that do not conform to the Biblical account of the age of the earth), Christians are often left wondering about the accuracy of the carbon-14 method. The truth is, carbon-14 dating (or radiocarbon dating, as it’s also called) is not a precise dating method in many cases, due to faulty assumptions and other limitations on this method.

Carbon has a weight of twelve atomic mass units (AMU’s), and is the building block of all organic matter (plants and animals). A small percentage of carbon atoms have an atomic weight of 14 AMU’s. This is carbon-14. Carbon-14 is an unstable, radioactive isotope of carbon 12. As with any radioactive isotope, carbon-14 decays over time. The half-life of carbon 14 is approximate 5,730 years. That means if you took one pound of 100 percent carbon-14, in 5,730 years, you would only have half a pound left.

Carbon-14 is created in the upper atmosphere as nitrogen atoms are bombarded by cosmic radiation. For every one trillion carbon-12 atoms, you will find one carbon-14 atoms. The carbon-14 that results from the reaction caused by cosmic radiation quickly changes to carbon dioxide, just like normal carbon-12 would. Plants utilize, or “breath in” carbon dioxide, then ultimately release oxygen for animals to inhale. The carbon-14 dioxide is utilized by plants in the same way normal carbon dioxide is. This carbon-14 dioxide then ends up in humans and other animals as it moves up the food chain.

There is then a ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the bodies of plants, humans, and other animals that can fluctuate, but will be fixed at the time of death. After death, the carbon-14 would begin to decay at the rate stated above. In 1948, Dr. W.F. Libby introduced the carbon-14 dating method at the University of Chicago. The premise behind the method is to determine the ratio of carbon-14 left in organic matter, and by doing so, estimate how long ago death occurred by running the ratio backwards. The accuracy of this method, however, relies on several faulty assumptions.

First, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, one must assume the rate of decay of carbon-14 has remained constant over the years. However, evidence indicates that the opposite is true. Experiments have been performed using the radioactive isotopes of uranium-238 and iron-57, and have shown that rates can and do vary. In fact, changing the environments surrounding the samples can alter decay rates.

The second faulty assumption is that the rate of carbon-14 formation has remained constant over the years. There are a few reasons to believe this assumption is erroneous. The industrial revolution greatly increased the amount of carbon-12 released into the atmosphere through the burning of coal. Also, the atomic bomb testing around 1950 caused a rise in neutrons, which increased carbon-14 concentrations. The great flood which Noah and family survived would have uprooted and/or buried entire forests. This would decrease the release of carbon-12 to the atmosphere through the decay of vegetation.

Third, for carbon-14 dating to be accurate, the concentrations of carbon-14 and carbon-12 must have remained constant in the atmosphere. In addition to the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph, the flood provides another evidence that this is a faulty assumption. During the flood, subterranean water chambers that were under great pressure would have been breached. This would have resulted in an enormous amount of carbon-12 being released into the oceans and atmosphere. The effect would be not unlike opening a can of soda and having the carbon dioxide fizzing out. The water in these subterranean chambers would not have contained carbon-14, as the water was shielded from cosmic radiation. This would have upset the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12.


http://www.contenderministries.org/evolution/carbon14.php

[Matchett-PI]

You're welcome.

You may or may not find this of interest, too.

[Chances Are]

You seem well versed in parroting. How entertaining!

CA....

[Thatcherite]

I've never visited any of those sites. Do they claim to be "peer-reviewed" in the sense that, say, Journal of Physical Chemistry is, or do they merely claim authority based on the scientific credentials of individual contributors?

Visit them and have a look at 20 random pages, see if you can find a subject that you know at least a little about (yeah, I know that violates the word "random"). You'll soon see the careful peer-reviewed worth of their arguments.... BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. They aren't designed to appeal only to the ignorant and credulous one bit. No Sir. That isn't cod-scientific flim-flam with a thin veneer of observation. Not at all.

In fact the challenge is on to find a good honest argument that stands up to critical knowledgeable scrutiny on ICR, AiG, or DrDino (don't bother with the last one on that list, even the other creationists disown it for the poverty of its science). What I haven't managed to work out is whether the authors of those sites are lying scum, or whether they are blinded by literal adherence to their holy book.

[Thatcherite]

I went to the Hovind link, it was definitely not that link, the page had more of a TalkOrigins look to it, not he greaybackground. Dont remember the exact words I used to search, but here is another one, just now. http://www.google.as/search?q=carbon+dating+evolution+mollusks&hl=en&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2003-34%2CGGLD%3Ae

Uh Race, that link is a copy of a Kent Hovind lecture....

[shubi]

Yes. They believe in God as Creator, but don't need to tell God how to do it.

[shubi]

Your article is way out of date scientifically and hopeless theologically.

[shubi]

Vioxx was just determined to be able to be sold. The whole class of drugs had more positive effect than negative. The whole hearing was on CSPAN.

It turns out, the publicity on the negative effects was mostly from trial lawyers. The drugs cure pain in people who otherwise would be house bound. Patients and their doctors pleaded to keep the drugs, saying quality of life was more important to them than a slight upward risk of heart attack, that could be managed now that the problem was understood.

It turns out that the people at risk of heart attack were the people who already were more at risk.

[shubi]

"Full Disclosure: Big Bangs can also lead to inflation in the special case of pregnancy--and thus the Big Bang relates to the beginning of life, in refutation of Shubi's earlier posts. ;-)"

I think the Big Bang was God's creative voice, "let there be life". I am still correct that the BB is not contained in biological evolution. Nothing can refute my posts, since they are all true.

[shubi]

Its always best to say something nice to your date or nothing at all.

"You know, for a fat girl, you don't sweat much."

[shubi]

Stop believing bad theology. Educate yourself.

[Ichneumon]

I like the science, I get tired of all the sniveling that just takes up space and sounds like a two-year old.

Your own first two posts sound far more like the tantrum of a two-year-old than anything else I've seen on this thread -- or most other threads, for that matter. So if you actually want to be the "voice of reason" in these heated exchanges, instead of appearing as a name-calling hypocrite and further fan the flames, perhaps you ought to calm down a bit.

I make shoes, if it fits, tough, wear it.

Be sure to save a pair for yourself.

[shubi]

Amazingly, a century after scientists knew otherwise, most creationists still believe that Neandertals were merely modern humans, deformed by diseases such as rickets, arthritis or syphilis. Some, but by no means all, Neandertals have been found with signs of health problems such as arthritis. But Neandertals have many distinctive features, and there is no reason why these diseases (or any others) would cause many, let alone all, of these features on even one, let alone many, individuals. Modern knowledge and experience also contradicts the idea that disease is a cause of Neandertal features, because these diseases do not cause modern humans to look like Neandertals.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_neands.html

Race, don't let the facts of this article hurt your faith in nonsense.

[shubi]

The main thing is that C14 is used mostly in archeology, not for fossils. This is exactly why the Young Earthers attack C14 dating. It dates things from 1000 to 50000 years very accurately.

Since the Earth is only 6000 years old as far as they know, it can't be right. LOL

[shubi]

"You are now on the ignore list."

How do we get you on that list?

[Ichneumon]

Liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar........Liar, Liar, pants on fire. He lies, they lie, he's a liar, you liar, I told you to stop lying you liar, its all lies, those lairs...sheesh, you sound like a bunch of sniveling crybabies and Bill Clinton whiners.

We identify lies when people post them. I'm sorry if people post lies so often that you've gotten tired of how often we have to point it out. But if you think that's being a "sniveling crybaby", you're mistaken. And you did more namecalling in your first two posts, and more broadly, than in almost the whole rest of the thread put together.

Race, perhaps you could do Step_Into_the_Void's tender sensibilities a favor and post fewer falsehoods, so that he won't have to see so many replies pointing out that you're posting lies (and they *are* lies -- whether they are your own, or someone else's, doesn't change the fact that they are indeed lies).

Some of us actually care about the truth enough to defend it.

[shubi]

Dimensio confirmed you are a liar. All of us have seen it.

Repeating the same quote mines and debunked nonsense is not debate. It is fraud.

[shubi]

There is nothing but bigotry to be learned from creationist crapsites.