Posted on 07/03/2008 4:35:19 PM PDT by SE Mom
Jay McKinnon, a self-described Department of Homeland Security-trained document specialist, has implicated himself in the production of fraudulent Hawaii birth certificate images similar to the one endorsed as genuine by the Barack Obama campaign, and appearing on the same blog entry where the supposedly authentic document appears.
The evidence of forgery and manipulation of images of official documents, triggered by Israel Insider's revelation of the collection of Hawaii birth certificate images on the Photobucket site and the detective work of independent investigative journalists and imaging professionals in the three weeks since the publication of the images, implicate the Daily Kos, an extreme left blog site, and the Obama campaign, in misleading the public with official-looking but manipulated document images of doubtful provenance.
The perceived unreliability of the image has provoked petitions and widespread demands for Obama to submit for objective inspection the paper versions of the "birth certificate" he claimed in his book Dreams from My Father was in his possession, as well as the paper version of the Certificate of Live Birth for which the image on the Daily Kos and the Obama "Fight the Smears" website was supposedly generated.
Without a valid birth certificate, Obama cannot prove he fulfills the "natural born citizen" requirement of the Constitution, throwing into doubt his eligibility to run for President.
McKinnon, who says he is 25-30 years old, operates a website called OpenDNA.com and uses the OpenDNA screen name on various web sites and blogs, including his comments and diary on The Daily Kos. In recent years he has divided his time between Long Beach, California and Vancouver, British Columbia. He is a Democratic political activist, frequent contributor to the left wing Daily Kos blog, and a fervent Barack Obama supporter.
(Excerpt) Read more at web.israelinsider.com ...
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/1521/#comment-6041
Above is the link to the comment on the TD site - that mentions the 72 hours. There’s no clue in that comment as to where the information came from.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2058453/posts
2 campaigns seek ‘truth’ about Obama’s birth
Emphasis:
Ted Moran, who said he wished to be contacted at brotherbear@solomonsstables.org, said he also was launching a campaign to discern the truth about Obama’s birth certificate.
“I am looking for 50 brave men or women from 49 states and the District of Columbia to join me in suing the secretaries of state in our respective states to prevent them from posting the name Barak H. Obama on the November 2008 ballot until he presents incontrovertible proof that he is a … U.S. citizen,” he said. “The secretaries of state are the ones who by placing a person or initiative on the ballot certify that the candidates or initiatives meet the legal requirements to be on the ballot.
What was the source of that little snip?
A poster on Texas Darlin's site found the announcement as a news article reporting the Vital Statistics for the period. Copies of additional parts of the page were also published purporting to show the article as being from the Honolulu Advertiser on August 13, 1961. I accept this at face value for the moment.
The poster says she contacted the paper; that the announcement would have been generated by information filed with the Department of Health. That in turn leads back to an inquiry as to what information was in fact filed.
As you may know, I have speculated for some time that we would find some form of affidavit, or affidavit of home birth, or other information alleging his birth in Hawaii, filed on August 8. If I had been creating it on the facts we know about, I would have put his footprint on it even if it was only an affidavit by mother or grandmother (because it would demonstrate that he was in fact in Honolulu on August 8).
All of that would leave open the question of how he got to Honolulu on August 8.
Further, the actual filing may not be that clear from our perspective--if I had been Obama's lawyer at the inception of this process and I had the affidavit with his footprint on it, I would have gone with that rather than the forgery.
The message in the forgery is that there is some factual disclosure in the actual filing that casts doubt on the position that he was actually born in Honolulu--otherwise they shouldn't have tried to use the forged document. On the other hand, these people are not very smart or very good--and they have made lots of mistakes; this is the kind of "throw it at the wall and see if it sitcks" tactic you might see from a novice lawyer. It may turn out they have a better position on the real filed data.
I think you are correct. It is likely that no one in 1961 had any idea what would transpire in 2008.
His mother probably was only interested in preventing BHOI from getting custody of BHOII and the whole charade was to show that BHOI had deserted them.
You said: “Did you notice on p.29 of the pdf you posted where Obama writes, “I was American, she decided...” What a curious phrase to use!”
But the full context is this: “But she now had learned, just as Lolo had learned, the chasm that separated the life chances of an American from those of an Indonesian. She knew which side of the divide she wanted her child to be on. I was an American, she decided, and my true life lay elsewhere.”
If you read that section, his mother is upset about how Lolo is “forced” to behave in order to get ahead—alluding to corruption/bribery etc. Notwithstanding her idealistic view that her son could grow up anywhere and have a happy successful life, living in Indonesia made her realize the unreality of that view. It motivated her to seek a way to get her son back into America to afford him all the opportunities that American citizenship would accord him—even at the price of long years of separation from him etc.
I think this evidence is “neutral” WRT Obama’s birthplace. A cynic could interpret it to mean she would resort to any means—including fabricating/altering birth records—to see that he would get this shot at American citizenship even if he technically wasn’t a natural born citizenship. But I think the statement is equally consistent with the view that he was born in Hawaii and his mom did not want to permanently alter his life chances by keeping him in Indonesia (even though that’s where she wanted to be regardless of how her marriage to Lolo worked out) into adulthood, at which point his prospects for ever attending an elite university or law school likely would have been remote given that his peers in Jakarta were privileged enough to attend the International School etc.
This doesn’t address the issue of dual citizenship, but again, the statement as it stands is neutral on that question as well IMHO.
I have searched the pdf for all instances of “kenya” and found no reference to the alleged pre-birth visit.
Numerous posters have pointed out that this is a brand new “factoid” and the original poster has not responded to repeated queries regarding a source.
Whether the poster was mistaken or playing games, at this juncture, I’m not holding my breath that this claim can be validated. There’s way too many posters scrubbing every inch of the available postings about BHO for this enormously significant factoid to have been missed for so long. The poster introduced it as a throwaway line, NOT as a thermonuclear “find” that would dramatically shift the burden of proof to BHO regarding to location of his birth.
If you're referring to "Dreams From My Father," of course there's no reference to Stanley Ann Dunham traveling to Kenya.
Numerous posters have pointed out that this is a brand new “factoid” and the original poster has not responded to repeated queries regarding a source.
Correct, and to be honest, I haven't seen anyone point to any actual sources to support the Kenya birth theory at all.
Numerous posters have pointed out that this is a brand new “factoid” and the original poster has not responded to repeated queries regarding a source.
Whether the poster was mistaken or playing games, at this juncture, I’m not holding my breath that this claim can be validated. There’s way too many posters scrubbing every inch of the available postings about BHO for this enormously significant factoid to have been missed for so long. The poster introduced it as a throwaway line, NOT as a thermonuclear “find” that would dramatically shift the burden of proof to BHO regarding to location of his birth.
I just got a note from the proprietor of the original site that asks me to refile one of the requests on a more current thread--I will do that if I can figure out how to do so.
I will tell both of you, having been with clients in major litigation, you assume that someone else will have found something; we have had things in documents come out from a paralegal who was marking them as exhibits during the trial that have been overlooked by ten or fifteen high priced and high powered lawyers.
On the other hand, difficult to see where this would have come from that we haven't seen it.
Browardchad should know that we have been looking at this since January. In the early going, there was stuff in the African periodicals, some of them in English, that has been scrubbed. Those periodicals recited interviews with the Missionaries that got on the BOAC flight on which Stanley Ann was rejected; and with Sarah and the two half-siblings who claimed to have been physically present at Obama's birth in Kenya.
There is other stuff that combined adds up to a fair inference that he was in fact born in Kenya.
And if not, Stanley Ann's mother really knows--it ought to be a simple task to respond to the birth location argument with real evidence. Why would they use a fraudulent birth certificate?
“of course there’s no reference to Stanley Ann Dunham traveling to Kenya.”
Well, I’m not sure what merits “of course.” Dreams From my Father was published in 1995 right after BHO finished law school and before he entered politics.
I realize BHO expressed aspirations to becoming president in grade school, but do people honestly believe he wrote that book with an eye to establishing his eligibility for president? After all, it’s chock full of not-so-complimentary info about his father, including the fact that he was already married when the alleged marriage to BHO’s mother occurred in 1961, that he abandoned them, that his mother then had yet another failed marriage etc.
Was BHO so prescient and arrogant that even in the aftermath of Jesse Jackson’s failed attempts in 1984 and 1988, he could envision that in 13 short years America would be ready to embrace a black candidate with such a checkered family background? That seems like a big stretch.
Hasn’t it been established that Kenya does not offer dual-citizenship? Which would make the statement at the Rocky Mountain News besides the point- regardless of where they received the info.
I think you do need to keep posting this. At least as long as these comments continue about how FR should be embarrassed to pursue this issue... those who do not understand the citizenship requirements to become POTUS should be even more embarrassed.
Also - the mere fact that you and others keep posting these requirements and others keep ignoring this information is suspect to me.
“Why would they use a fraudulent birth certificate?”
I don’t know, but consider a Kenya birth to be far less likely than alternative explanations such as Canadian birth simply because of the logistics and expense—whether these apply to BHO in utero or as an infant only a few days old.
I fear this 72 hours claim may well have emerged from the “echo chamber.” Isn’t it YOUR theory that Ann went to Kenya only for a brief time (measured in days rather than weeks or months)? We have reports of friends of Ann’s saying she was less visible socially during spring 1962, but no one asserts she completely disappeared. I thought you or someone else here—I’m sure not planning to scour thousands of posts—claimed something to the effect that it was Kenyan tradition to be with parental family and/or Barack Senior insisted on this trip to ensure his son’s Kenyan citizenship. If the latter was the motivation, his subsequent abandonment of BHO is very hard to explain. A father who sees his son but once in his life seems quite the opposite of a person who would undergo the absurd expense (while a student!) to have his “wife” shipped back to Africa for the birth.
I haven’t seen the accounts of relatives claiming to have seen BHO born in Africa, but we do know that some African relatives confused Barack Senior’s 3rd wife for Ann when she suddenly showed up in Africa allegedly having followed him on her own accord from Harvard. Ann likewise was confused with Toot, who in fact was her (great?) grandmother. So in light of the unreliability of eyewitnesses to contemporaneous events, I have to take 3 decade-old memories (especially if they are adult memories of childhood incidents) with a grain of salt. I can’t claim it’s in any way been proven BHO wasn’t born in Kenya, but the evidence at hand to date is awfully thin.
So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if this poster simply read some speculation here about a short trip to Africa for the birth, misinterpreted it as something being reported from one of BHO’s books, converted “several days” to 72 hours, and proceeded to post that assertion on the board. As I indicated in an earlier post, if that poster’s intent had been to broadcast a startling new finding, much more would have been made about where s/he found the factoid.
What I meant was that if there were a reference in the book to Ann Dunham traveling to Kenya, then there would be a solid basis for theorizing that Obama was born there. There isn't.
As far as the timeframe of the book, of course it was written to further his political career, and he used it as a campaign tool when he ran for state senate in '95, and as he says in the preface to the 2004 edition, he had a chance to revise the book (which was originally a flop), but he didn't.
Of course he intentionally included the dirt about his father, as well as other unsavory characters, as a preemptory strike, since there was no way he could have hidden it under the glare of the national spotlight in the internet age. What he did though, was weave the facts into a story of angst about his racial identity, making chronology and the complete story so disjointed and confusing that it's a safe bet that at least 90% of those who bought the book have never read more than a few pages. And the strategy worked, most especially with the media, most of whom haven't read it either, but simply use it to repeat the same contradictory timelines and disjointed narrative.
Being a somewhat perfect specimen of megalomaniacal narcissist, Obama's ambition knows no bounds. He has supreme confidence in himself, disdain for the intelligence of anyone other than himself, and has led a life where all doors have opened easily for him, while he essentially BS's his way through school and life.
If he thinks he's qualified to be president with no real accomplishments or proven leadership ability, then he would certainly think that a tawdry family history full of holes and half-truths wasn't an impediment.
LucyT -- thanks. She was a striking beauty.
Grover Cleveland's motto: "Tell the truth."
I don't know about Kenya. Dual citizenship typically arises because of the statutory pattern--it's just a result of each statute saying "a person is a citizen if . . . . "
The reason the Rocky Mountain News statement is important is to trace the basis for the view that he might have had Kenya citizenship. This "no dual citizenship" argument is very interesting but look--suppose Obama was, as we believe, born in Kenya under circumstances where he did not become a US citizen under Sec. 1401(g). Is he a citizen anywhere? I assume he is a citizen in Kenya. And if so, how does he lose his Kenya citizenship? If he were naturalized in the US (which there is no evidence he was), how would his Kenya citizenship end?
A troll who posts as Citizen Blade stated yesterday that McCain could not be a Panamanian Citizen--that citizenship in most places does not result from birth. In the case of Panama, much of their foundational legal pattern was copied from the US. I assume Gatun knew the answer; and I have seen other cases in ancient history regarding Panamanian citizenship so I believe the troll is incorrect.
The point however of the dual citizenship because of offshore birth under circumstances where parentage result in domestic citizenship is that is why the "natural born" requirement contemplates birth within the confines of the U S--so that you don't have a dual citizen responsibility on the President. That would be a risk of offshore birth because whatever Citizen Blade may think about what other countries have done or do with persons born there, they could say, as many in fact do, that everyone born there is a citizen.
And another point Gatun made which I do believe is correct, is that there is no provision in Panamanian law for how you would shuck your Panamanian citizenship.
I am of the relatively strong opinion that if Obama can prove he was born in Hawaii, he will be held eligible to act as President, even if he was also at some point a citizen of Kenya or Indonesia or somewhere else, unless at some time after he reached adulthood, he renounced his U S Citizenship which I think did not happen.
I am of the equally strong opinion, that if Obama proves to have been born in Kenya to parents married to each other, he will be held not eligible to act as President.
The parents not married issue is a never never land but it doesn't take very much to have wedlock under Sec. 1409(c) so I haven't yet addressed that question.
I don’t know, but consider a Kenya birth to be far less likely than alternative explanations such as Canadian birth simply because of the logistics and expense—whether these apply to BHO in utero or as an infant only a few days old.
I fear this 72 hours claim may well have emerged from the “echo chamber.” Isn’t it YOUR theory that Ann went to Kenya only for a brief time (measured in days rather than weeks or months)? We have reports of friends of Ann’s saying she was less visible socially during spring 1962, but no one asserts she completely disappeared. I thought you or someone else here—I’m sure not planning to scour thousands of posts—claimed something to the effect that it was Kenyan tradition to be with parental family and/or Barack Senior insisted on this trip to ensure his son’s Kenyan citizenship.
With all respect, I think no to most of that.
My thesis is that both Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann went to Kenya during the break between fall and winter (quarter?) semester in school, sometime in January 1961 after finals; got married; and decided that given Stanley Ann had been kicked out by her family, she would stay until just prior to the birth and then return to get the child U S Citizenship. Marriage in the US would have violated criminal bigamy statutes; marriage in Kenya was not only not illegal, it was the social norm to have multiple wives.
She stayed too long--BOAC would not let her get on the airplane; and Obama Jr. was born in Kenya.
She then came back (through the established 1961 BOAC schedule via Glaskow to Vancouver BC; to Seattle; and to Honolulu). She or one of her parents did something to register Obama Jr. as a birth in Honolulu.
In the 50's and 60's there was a fair amount of transportation to British Africa through this route and through Vancouver B.C. out of Seattle. BOAC was not prohibitively expensive. There were cut price deals for students and others related to visiting Africa students which the wife of such a student would have qualified for.
No I don't think she was only there for a brief time--I would be inclined to believe Obama might have said 72 hours to cover the fact that it has already come out and someone might have a record that put her in Kenya immediately before the birth; but 72hours doesn't mean she wasn't there a lot longer which I believe she was.
No, I don't know of any reason Obama Sr. would have pursued getting Jr. to Kenya or worried about how to get him citizenship--I assume Sr. thought he was well connected enough to get citizenship whenever he felt like it.
And no, I don't know of anyone--no single source anywhere of any single person that even inferred that Stanley Ann was ever seen, even one time, in Honolulu in the period between February 1, 1961 (or whenever fall semester ended) and August 8, 1961. And if my thesis is correct, no one will appear.
Thank you, David.
Pinging to #4516 and #4517.
Meant to ping you, too.
Thanks, Lucy.
David’s thesis is the only one that makes any logical sense to me.
In a prior post, I stated that in 1961, I was eight months pregnant and was not allowed to board an airplane.
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