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To: DrC
'Why would they use a fraudulent birth certificate?'

I don’t know, but consider a Kenya birth to be far less likely than alternative explanations such as Canadian birth simply because of the logistics and expense—whether these apply to BHO in utero or as an infant only a few days old.

I fear this 72 hours claim may well have emerged from the “echo chamber.” Isn’t it YOUR theory that Ann went to Kenya only for a brief time (measured in days rather than weeks or months)? We have reports of friends of Ann’s saying she was less visible socially during spring 1962, but no one asserts she completely disappeared. I thought you or someone else here—I’m sure not planning to scour thousands of posts—claimed something to the effect that it was Kenyan tradition to be with parental family and/or Barack Senior insisted on this trip to ensure his son’s Kenyan citizenship.

With all respect, I think no to most of that.

My thesis is that both Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann went to Kenya during the break between fall and winter (quarter?) semester in school, sometime in January 1961 after finals; got married; and decided that given Stanley Ann had been kicked out by her family, she would stay until just prior to the birth and then return to get the child U S Citizenship. Marriage in the US would have violated criminal bigamy statutes; marriage in Kenya was not only not illegal, it was the social norm to have multiple wives.

She stayed too long--BOAC would not let her get on the airplane; and Obama Jr. was born in Kenya.

She then came back (through the established 1961 BOAC schedule via Glaskow to Vancouver BC; to Seattle; and to Honolulu). She or one of her parents did something to register Obama Jr. as a birth in Honolulu.

In the 50's and 60's there was a fair amount of transportation to British Africa through this route and through Vancouver B.C. out of Seattle. BOAC was not prohibitively expensive. There were cut price deals for students and others related to visiting Africa students which the wife of such a student would have qualified for.

No I don't think she was only there for a brief time--I would be inclined to believe Obama might have said 72 hours to cover the fact that it has already come out and someone might have a record that put her in Kenya immediately before the birth; but 72hours doesn't mean she wasn't there a lot longer which I believe she was.

No, I don't know of any reason Obama Sr. would have pursued getting Jr. to Kenya or worried about how to get him citizenship--I assume Sr. thought he was well connected enough to get citizenship whenever he felt like it.

And no, I don't know of anyone--no single source anywhere of any single person that even inferred that Stanley Ann was ever seen, even one time, in Honolulu in the period between February 1, 1961 (or whenever fall semester ended) and August 8, 1961. And if my thesis is correct, no one will appear.

4,517 posted on 08/08/2008 1:02:51 PM PDT by David (...)
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To: David; Rushmore Rocks; potlatch; devolve; Jeff Head; MeekOneGOP; Lady Jag; 1COUNTER-MORTER-68; ...

Thank you, David.

Pinging to #4516 and #4517.


4,518 posted on 08/08/2008 1:19:12 PM PDT by LucyT (What happens in Denver....is anyone's guess....August 25 - 28, 2008)
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To: David
You said: "I don't know of anyone--no single source anywhere of any single person that even inferred that Stanley Ann was ever seen, even one time, in Honolulu in the period between February 1, 1961 (or whenever fall semester ended) and August 8, 1961." Then how do you interpret this? 1. "For Stanley Ann, her new relationship with Barack Obama and weekend discussions seemed to be, in part, a logical extension of long coffeehouse sessions in Seattle and the teachings of Wichterman and Foubert. The forum now involved graduate students from the University of Hawaii. They spent weekends listening to jazz, drinking beer and debating politics and world affairs." 2. "Six months after they wed, another letter arrived in Kenya, announcing the birth of Barack Hussein Obama, born Aug. 4, 1961. Despite her husband's continued anger, Sarah Obama said in a recent interview, she "was so happy to have a grandchild in the U.S." 3. "After Obama was accepted to study at Harvard, Stanley Ann disappeared from the University of Hawaii student gatherings, but she did not accompany her husband to Harvard. Abercrombie said he rarely saw her after that." http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,1310554.story?page=4 Let me stipulate that nothing in the above directly STATES that Ann was still in Hawaii from February-July 1961. But the most straightforward "connecting the dots" suggests she was: First, does it really makes sense that Sarah Obama would remain completely silent about Ann's having actually been in Africa through the birth, as opposed to expressing either joy at being able to see BHO as an infant and/or expressing regret that Ann couldn't stay in Africa after he was born? Is your argument now that every Obama family member living in Africa has now been sworn to secrecy about what really happened? That's a might large group of conspirators to keep under wraps, don't you think? Second, in light of #1 above, it doesn't make sense that quote #3 would focus on noticing Ann's absence from student gatherings AFTER Senior went to Harvard (i.e., which didn't occur until Barack was 1 or 2, depending on which account you believe) yet say nothing of an extended period in which Ann and Barack Senior allegedly were missing from these lively grad student discussions during nearly all of spring semester 1961 [things could have changed somewhat, but UH's spring semester for the coming year starts in Jan. and ends in May http://www.hawaii.edu/academics/calendar/ as is true of most universities]. Assuredly, their absence may not have been missed during the summer. But PhD programs tend to be small and the same friend who noticed Ann's absence after Senior left most assuredly would have noticed her absence for an entire semester, especially since the fall 1960 "coupling" of these 2 was obviously pretty remarkable at the time.
4,524 posted on 08/08/2008 2:40:27 PM PDT by DrC
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To: David

“given Stanley Ann had been kicked out by her family”

What’s the basis for this claim?

“In a Russian language course, he met an awkward, shy American girl, only 18, and they fell in love. The girl’s parents, wary at first, were won over by his charm and intellect; the young couple married, and she bore them a son, to whom he bequeathed his name.”
http://www.nationmedia.com/EastAfrican/01112004/Features/PA2-2212.html

I think you fundamentally misunderstand who was angry with whom:
“Stanley Ann’s prospective father-in-law was furious. He wrote the Dunhams “this long, nasty letter saying that he didn’t approve of the marriage,” Obama recounted his mother telling him in “Dreams.” “He didn’t want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman.” http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,1310554.story?page=3

In light of the foregoing, your account of them leaving Hawaii to face the wrath of Senior’s father in Africa makes no sense.


4,525 posted on 08/08/2008 2:57:10 PM PDT by DrC
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