Free Republic

Thanks for the information. It appears that they are more than likely legitimate as they contain the same typo as the Obama nomination certification from 2008: “though”.

Very interesting that they contain the same typo and have the Constitutional eligibility clause missing. All three forms; 2000, 2004 and 2008 contain these items. Does this possible indicate an intent to defraud over a long period of time?

Yes, that is the problem. And it is the same problem that exists with any “documentation” that has the potential to be forged.

The founding fathers were very astute and knew (and historical documentation shows)that there was serious concern about the Republic being infiltrated and subverted. That is why the specific requirement for the President to be a natural born citizen.

The irrefutable evidence that Barack Obama is not constitutionally eligible for the office of the President of the United States is that his father was a foreign national; a non-U.S. citizen.

The response was not, nor intended to be patronizing. The issue of Herod's death is key to understanding when Jesus was born and conveniently overlooked by “foremost scholars”. The primary (and indisputable) source for accounts of Jesus’ birth is the Bible. And without discussing His birth in context of what it has to say, the debate of “when” is irrelevant.

In Luke 2:1 we find “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king...” following through to Luke 2:13 “...Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt...for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.” then in Luke 2:19,20 “But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, [20] Saying, Arise, and take the young child an his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.” (KJV)

You are correct in that Herod died on the night when there was an eclipse of the moon. However, it was not in the year 1. Please read the source information on Herod's death from the Jewish historian, Josephus.

The key to when Jesus was born is understanding when Herod died: Herod + Alive = Jesus Birth 1+1=2. I encourage you to read Birth Basics / When Jesus was born by Thomas W. Guthrie. It is available at Lulu.com.

Oil prices are based on a “standard” which is West Texas Intermediary (WTI)Crude (raw unprocessed oil). Crude or crude oil varies in price depending on sulfur and other components that cause a crude oil to vary from the chemical characteristics of West Texas Intermediary. Crudes other than WTI are priced inferior to WTI.

I don't know if this will support what you are looking for, but it seems fairly blunt, "defense".

Jul. 15, 2006 4:40 | Updated Jul. 15, 2006 4:44
Fox: Syria to come to aid of Hizbullah and Lebanon
By JPOST.COM STAFF....Syria stated that it will come to the defense of Hizbullah and Lebanon, Fox News reported early Saturday.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886003584&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The "official" explanation needs to be dissected by Freepers. Inhalation and animal skins don't mesh:

1) According to the report, the animal skins were transported from Africa. Although reported as "raw skins" there most likely would have been some processing of the skins to prevent rotting.

2)Additional processing would be required before utilizing the skins for drums or anything else.

As such, the spores getting aerosolized (or even still existing on the skins) when struck with the drumstick is highly unlikely. Think! Replies and criticisms accepted.

Judith Anne, All

Open question, speculation - As I haven't been able to correlate where the birds in Italy were found with H5N1 in comparison to the location of the Winter Olympic Games in Turin - what is the likelihood of increased transmissibilty to other regions of the world?

I usually just observe these threads. But, Bombardier if you respect and worship God so much, how come you don't take Him at His word?

Judith Anne,

I hadn't read up on this thread for a couple of days but, it looks like this new information may have brought us back full circle to my question to Kelly_2000 on post 1322 of the first Marburg Surveillance Project Thread..."
Kelly_2000 I am directing this to you as your specific knowledge base and background on the topic is superb. However, input from everyone (FReeper brain trust) is vital.

I haven't been able to post for a couple of days but I have been following the discussion. Kelly_2000 in your post 1217 to redoglum you stated in part, '...it is Marburg and something entirely new.' I have been thinking back to my post 1076 on 5/16/2005 and was extrapolating the possible interconnectivity between Marburg, Ebola and H5N1 based on the articles posted on post 1076. The response was that this is Marburg. I don't disagree but what is being reported is Marburg evidently of a nature that is "different".

One of the big questions about this outbreak is the reclassification of cases. The question is what are the Marburg cases being reclassified FROM or vice versa? Evidently there are more cases - of something - with the Marburg cases being the reported cases. One of the URL's I posted on post 1076 referred to Dr. Niman requesting tests for H5N1. To me this indicates that even the symptoms were / are suspicious and had / have the possibility of being H5N1. Again, other cases have been reclassified. The general reference of these reclassification cases anticipates that deaths occurred.

In doing additional research something caught my eye about Marburg and Ebola. Some research shows the VP40 matrix protein is the cause for the filobrius (sp?) nature of these viruses. If I have read correctly the H5N1 also has a filobrius appearance.

Now, the questions for your technical expertise, could the VP40 matrix protein be introduced into the H5N1 virus naturally or otherwise? If so, might it not be difficult to distinguish the resultant virus?"

2ndreconmarine's graph and analysis thread (if I pulled it over correctly):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1396311/posts?page=1687#1687

The numbers are still anyone's guess. According to the U.S. Embassy in Angola,

"EMBASSY LATEST WARDEN MESSAGE

For Immediate Release
May 31, 2005 U.S. Embassy, Office of Public Affairs

EMBASSY LATEST WARDEN MESSAGE ON THE HEMORRHAGIC FEVER IN UIGE PROVINCE, ANGOLA

The United States Embassy Luanda recommends against travel to Uige province, Angola due to an outbreak of Marburg hemorrhagic fever. As of May 30, 2005, the Ministry of Health reported 371 cases and 334 deaths over a seven-month period. The Angolan Ministry of Health, the World Health Organization, and the Centers for Disease Control-Atlanta are cooperating to identify recommended public health measures and treatment.

For additional information on Marburg hemorrhagic fever and infectious diseases consult the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's hotline for international travelers at 1-877-FYI-TRIP (1-877-394-8747) or the CDC's Internet site at CDC-ATLANTA CDC-ATLANTA and consult the World Health Organization's (WHO) website at WHO.INT

The United States Consular Section in Luanda can be reached by telephone at (244) (2) 371-645 or by email at luandaconsular@yahoo.com. The Embassy website is www.usembassy.gov/angola"

According to WHO update 20, dated May 27, 2005 (effective May 26, 2005) there have been a total of 399 cases, and 335 deaths. These numbers are completely different (as can be seen from the above data) from the numbers reported by the Ministry of Health 5 days later.

If you haven't seen 2ndreconmarine's analysis of the outbreak on post 1687 of Thread 1, I recommend you do so. You'll see the reported numbers at this point in time are basically irrelevant.

Maybe something gets lost in the translation to English...
According to Mr. Sambo, with the help of the Angolan Ministry of Health the virus has been eradicated.

Interesting that it has been "eradicated" since according to everything I've read, the reservoir for the virus has still not been unidentified. Kind of tough to eradicate when this little point is still with us.

A LOT of inconsistencies that need to be winnowed through for a more complete understanding of this outbreak. Is it likely that this Marburg outbreak might take on the general pattern of HIV in Africa?

Clearly HIV in Africa is epidemic. This Marburg genetic strain appears to have the potential to evolve into a similar epidemic. However, with deadlier and more immediate consequences. In my mind I keep going back to 2ndreconmarine's Figure D and analysis thereof. Figuratively, Figure D looks like a volcano. Analytically it can be perceived the same way. A large base for case potential (large relative urban area with cultural practices that increase one's sphere of influence) similar to a magma chamber. And a mountain of magma (confirmed cases) building for a blowout.

When a volcano erupts, the ensuing consequences are magnified in area (whether lava flow, pyroclastic explosion, or ash). Similarly, when this Marburg outbreak "erupts" the chaos will be magnified by disbursal of the populace - panic and exodus. The more I think about this outbreak with the inconsistencies the more I think this is why the officials are trying to keep the lid on it.

Yes, I know the economic and political ramifications mentioned throughout this thread - and they are quite real. But, to me there appears too many inconsistencies with the reporting of cases and the virus' affect to be purely economic and political reasons for the lack of published information.

Good recent article. It seems according to the article, Horacio survived.

Earlier articles relate that there have been previously reported instances of Marburg being passed by survivors up to three months after the onset via sexual intercourse. Without a cure, how does this apparent fact of subsequent transmission contribute to the perpetuation of the outbreak and evolution of the virus?

Thank you for your excellent analysis. Even with your highly detailed modeling and explanations, you always bring the discussion back to "brass tacks". Both are essential to following this thread and understanding if / when this outbreak can / will become personal.

Thanks again!

I agree with 2ndreconmarine - " I'd like to suggest that we run this current topic to ground before we move to the next thread."

2dnreconmarine,

I understand the basis of your analysis and your pretext for assumptions on the RNA mutations. This process brings me back to a question I posed to Kelly_2000 sometime back (on post 1322) about the VP40 matrix protein. It appears there is a lot of research going on about how the VP40 matrix protein for Marburg (and Ebola) are causing (allowing) the virus to more effectively penetrate the host cell walls and replicate. From the research I have read, it seems that this is a continuing processes in the evolution of Marburg that is increasing its virility.

As a side note, one of the the hemagglutinin proteins of the H5N1 virus is mutating in with a similar mutation causing (allowing) the virus to more effectively penetrate the host cell walls. This is one of the things that appears to have the epidemiologists on edge.

Now I know that this outbreak is Marburg but, as Kelly_2000 pointed out to redoglum in post 1217, in part, "...it is Marburg and something entirely new." In this frame of reference then retreating back to the original report of the outbreak it was children under 5 with the first lab confirmed cases of Marburg.

Fast forward to the frame of reference as to the probability of containment. Since the first signs of the outbreak occurred in October 2004 how many cases infected others before knowing it was Marburg? This is, essentially, a rhetorical question. However, if I understand your modeling correctly it appears to fit your modeling represented by Figure D.

Maybe...maybe not. Reported new cases have been spiking about every 12 days. Around May 29 there could be another spike in reported cases if this follows the (reported) cycle to date.

If reported cases do increase around then it might give the virologists a pattern / cycle to evaluate.

Thanks. It is important to maintain accuracy. Without adequate firsthand information it is the analysis of detailed nuances that provide the clues.

BTW - I haven't seen Kelly_2000 interact on this thread in a few days. Anyone keeping in contact at a personal level? I miss the technical expertise.