Posted on 07/04/2002 5:27:12 PM PDT by blam
Sunday, 30 June, 2002, 15:31 GMT 16:31 UK
English and Welsh are races apart
Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons.
The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.
Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.
And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh.
Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical.
But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of Welsh people studied.
The research team studied the Y-chromosome, which is passed almost unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers.
Ethnic links: Many races share common bonds
They chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area.
They then compared this with samples from Norway and with Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands.
The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different.
The researchers concluded the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which devastated the Celtic population of England, but did not reach Wales.
Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said their findings suggested that a migration occurred within the last 2,500 years.
Genetic links
It reinforced the idea that the Welsh were the true indigenous Britons.
In April last year, research for a BBC programme on the Vikings revealed strong genetic links between the Welsh and Irish Celts and the Basques of northern Spain and south France.
It suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.
The UCL research into the more recent Anglo-Saxon period suggested a migration on a huge scale.
"It appears England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the continent after the Romans left," he said.
Celtic Britons
Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain.
Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite.
But the latest research by the UCL team, "using genetics as a history book", appears to support the original view of a large-scale invasion of England.
It suggests that the Welsh border was more of a genetic barrier to the Anglo-Saxon Y chromosome gene flow than the North Sea.
Dr Thomas added: "Our findings completely overturn the modern view of the origins of the English."
The women in the Viking countries were very free and outspoken. It is rumored that the reason the men went a-viking was to get away from their womenfolk.
Or, perhaps, they were manly enough to recognize a smart woman when they heard one and not be afraid of her.
i think matrilinear dna would be more interesting for this study, I would imagine there were a lot more celtic-dna mothers than fathers in 6th century modern kenth, susssex/essex/east anglia. it seems pretty obvious that y-chromosome propogation is going to be heavily biased in favor of conquerers.
"They all need to shove off and go back to where they came, the whole lot of them."
LOL! Let's have that apply to the whole world. Everybody should go back to where they originated from, if they can figure it out.
The differences in race are skin deep and include a variety of complexions, body types and sizes, hair types and facial features. As for any other differences - they are cultural.
What exactly are you implying?
Myrddin, maybe your ancestors knew mine. They came here about the same time as yours, maybe a few years earlier. Small world.
Twll dîn pob Sais!!!
I hope no-one asks you to translate this!!!!!
That's about the upper limit of expletives in Welsh. The more direct version, "Twll dy dyn di" is nominally the version of f*** y**
My aunts and grandfather used to speak and sing in Welsh. Sadly, none of their children learned the language.
You can remedy that problem. See the link here
My aunt in Des Moines is president of the Welsh society there. They sponsor Welsh lessons annually. Various locations around the U.S. have a gymanfa ganu where you can join in to sing in Welsh. Look for activities around St. David's Day (March 1) for special activities.
My great grandfather insisted that all his children speak English to succeed in the United States. He and his wife (from Aberystwyth) spoke Welsh out of earshot of the children and also at church (Welsh Presbyterian).
Hey, I have Welsh ancestry. Reparations sound good... a few million pound sterling, couple of castles and a title or two...maybe Duke Reader to you commoners. Yeah, that ought to do it!
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Just an update and bttt. |
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Isrealites, they are all little Israelites running around. Migrating after the Assyrian invasion in 721 BC. Google Yair Davidy if you are curious about migratory paths of the ancient people.
I’ve read in many places that the descendants of the Irish and the Scots migrated from the Middle East (Anatolia/Turkey) thru Spain and wound up in the British Isles,
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Many descendants of the Irish and Scots ended up in the land of Dixie and distinguished themselves in the Confederate army. Many other descendants wound up as Catholic priests, policemen, politicians and one Irish branch became the ruling family of Massachusetts. I am sometimes accused of bearing a striking resemblance to one descendant of the Irish who became a famous actor after serving in the Army during WWII and for some years after the war ended.
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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ping! an old article but a good one! thanks to blam!
Some articles are timeless, this one is just over 9 years old.
Nice piece - bookmarking to read more of the replies.
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