Dinosaurs frolic with Adam and Eve at creationism museum

afp ^ | may 20, 2007 | Mira Oberman

[celmak]

PETERSBURG, United States (AFP) - Dinosaurs frolic with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and an animatronic Noah directs work on his Ark in a multimillion dollar creationism museum set to open next week in Kentucky.

Designed by the creator of the King Kong and Jaws exhibits at the Universal Studios theme park, the stunning 60,000 square foot (5,400 square-metre) facility is built for a specific purpose: refuting evolution and expanding the flock of believers in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

"You'll get people into a place like this that you can't get into a church with a stick of dynamite," said founder Ken Ham from his office overlooking the museum's manicured grounds.

Polls consistently show that nearly half of Americans believe God created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago. Only about 13 percent believe God played no part in the origin of human life.

Ham does not blame evolution per se for society's ills. He believes that sin has been around since Adam and Eve took their fateful bite of apple about 5,700 years before Charles Darwin published "On the Origin of Species."

But he says the theory of evolution has been used to undermine the validity of the literal truth of the Bible, heralding a dangerous age of moral relativism which can be blamed for everything from racism to the Holocaust.

Located just outside of Cincinnati near the intersection of the states of Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio, nearly two thirds of the population of the United States lives within a 650-mile (1,050-kilometer) drive of the Creation Museum.

It is expected to draw at least 250,000 people a year when it opens on May 28.

[ColdWater]

“13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.”

If that happened, the earth would have left its orbit and we would have all perished.

[ColdWater]

“And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go [down] for about a whole day.”

Are you trying to say that the sun revolves around the earth?

[Raycpa]

Why in the world do you think that?

Are you a literalist?

[Raycpa]

Your hippo is NOT aroused.

It's not my fault.

[ColdWater]

Are you trying to say that the sun revolves around the earth?

Why in the world do you think that? Are you a literalist?

I think I was asking you that.

[Rodney King]

No, “reputable” meaning those with advanced degrees who have actually done research in the field, and have written peer-reviewed treatises and books on the subject.

Yet, you site Kurt Wise, who has said the following:

'The fact that God created the universe is not a theory—it's true. However, some of the details are not specifically nailed down in Scripture. Some issues—such as creation, a global Flood, and a young age for the earth—are determined by Scripture, so they are not theories. My understanding from Scripture is that the universe is in the order of 6,000 years old. Once that has been determined by Scripture, it is a starting point that we build theories upon. It is within those boundaries that we can construct new theories.'

Hardly a PHD who has studied stuff and concluded a young earth. When you arrive at the conclusion before you begin your analysis, you have zero credibility.

[ColdWater]

Hardly a PHD who has studied stuff and concluded a young earth. When you arrive at the conclusion before you begin your analysis, you have zero credibility.

He says that he arrived at the YEC conclusion before he entered high school.

[b_sharp]

"It's not my fault."

Actually it's my fault. I refused to let him watch his favourite porn flick.

[Creationist]

Cedar trees do not grow big where you are from?

[Creationist]

Do not go to Texas where you may see man foot prints and dinosaur prints in the same level of rock.

Do not believe the Roman Coins with dragon depictions on them.

Do not believe the Inca Stones with depictions of dragons on them. Or the fact that the skin pattern depicted was only recently verified.

As to you belief that they went extinct before the flood is unknown. That is assuming you even believe in the Flood of Noah's day.

Before the flood things lived longer and grew larger. After the flood things did not live as long therefore did not grow as large.

It is a scientific fact that reptiles grow until they die. So pre flood larger, post flood smaller.

There are many legends (which is not a scientific fact, same as evolution is not scientific but a hypothesis on unproved ideals) of dinosaurs seem by tribal people in South America and Africa.

[COgamer]

This is silly, and maybe a little bit dangerous... It’s easy enough to see God’s hand in creation without having to resort to this kind of thing. Why the need to put limits on God’s power? There is absolutely nothing in the Genesis account to suggest dinosaurs didn’t live and die before man was created... As a matter of fact, if memory serves, it pretty much says the animals came first and that later God created man.

The only timeline given between the creation of animals and the creation of man is one day in God’s time. Not one day in human time!

[COgamer]

“No, “reputable” meaning those with advanced degrees who have actually done research in the field, and have written peer-reviewed treatises and books on the subject.”

Like who, exactly?

[LiteKeeper]

I have already cited on...Dr Kurt Wise...research with Dr Stephen Jay Gould. And there are others.

[Coyoteman]

Do not go to Texas where you may see man foot prints and dinosaur prints in the same level of rock.

The "man foot" prints are frauds. Even most creationist websites advise not to rely on them.

Do not believe the Roman Coins with dragon depictions on them.

Dragons are right up there with unicorns and centaurs. Right! That's scientific evidence for sure! Take that to the Nobel Prize Committee!

Do not believe the Inca Stones with depictions of dragons on them. Or the fact that the skin pattern depicted was only recently verified.

I thought Inca stones were made for the tourist market?

As to you belief that they went extinct before the flood is unknown. That is assuming you even believe in the Flood of Noah's day.

The flood is a matter of religious belief. There is no scientific evidence supporting a global flood at about 4350 years ago. Early geologists, seeking to document a global flood, gave up about 1830.

Before the flood things lived longer and grew larger. After the flood things did not live as long therefore did not grow as large.

No global flood. See above.

It is a scientific fact that reptiles grow until they die. So pre flood larger, post flood smaller.

No global flood. See above.

There are many legends (which is not a scientific fact, same as evolution is not scientific but a hypothesis on unproved ideals) of dinosaurs seem by tribal people in South America and Africa.

Legends are interesting. I like Zeus and those guys, but Coyote and Eagle are my favorites. Let me know if you are interested in some good Coyote stories.

You write "evolution is not scientific but a hypothesis on unproved ideals" -- nice try. "Ideals" have no role in science, and no theory is considered "proved" in science. And you are further incorrect in that the theory of evolution is indeed a theory, not an hypothesis. See the definitions on my FR homepage.

Your problem is that you seem to think that your religious beliefs are scientific facts. That appears not to be the case.

In the words of one of our greatest pessimistic philosophers:

Belief gets in the way of learning.

Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

[ColdWater]

I have already cited on...Dr Kurt Wise...

Oh, the guy that decided to reject science in favor of the bible when he was in the ninth grade and now says he will never change his mind no matter how much evidence is proven the earth is older than 6000 years.

[ColdWater]

Do not go to Texas where you may see man foot prints and dinosaur prints in the same level of rock.

AiG'S MOST RECENT COMMENTS ON THE PALUXY "MAN PRINTS" "Some prominent creationist promoters of these tracks have long since withdrawn their support. Some of the allegedly human tracks may be artefacts of erosion of dinosaur tracks obscuring the claw marks. There is a need for properly documented research on the tracks before we would use them to argue the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs."

[ColdWater]

Before the flood ...

There is NO geological or archeological evidence of the flood.

[ColdWater]

read the passage without a pre-conceived bias, there is no reason to think that it euphemistically refers to a penis.

In the same passage that describes his "stones" ...

[ColdWater]

Why are human bones and human artifacts NEVER found buried together with dinosaur remains anywhere on earth?

Why are dinosaur bones NEVER found buried anywhere on earth in upper strata, but only in much deeper strata that is more than about 65 million years old?

Why are dinosaur bones NEVER found buried anywhere on earth together with large mammals that have lived contemporaneously with man such as elephants, whales, bears, tigers, oxen, hippopotami, rhinoceroses, moose, etc.?

And why, even if for the sake of argument one assumes that Job’s Behemoth was a large dinosaur, would the Bible be virtually silent regarding the enormous variety of beasts that would have had such a profound impact on people’s daily lives? It is difficult to imagine how people could have lived in the presence of the type of vicious flesh-eating dinosaurs that are known to have hunted in what is now the Middle East without the scribes documenting dinosaur encounters on a frequent basis.

[b_sharp]

"Do not go to Texas where you may see man foot prints and dinosaur prints in the same level of rock.

That was debunked years ago, they were dinosaur tracks, not human.

"Do not believe the Roman Coins with dragon depictions on them.

Some dragons look like funny dinosaurs, some look like funny snakes, some look like nothing possibly alive on Earth (unless there were six limbed dinosaurs).

I'm sure that if we found pictures of unicorns somewhere that would be evidence that they existed. Especially if the pictures were found on something official. Well I'll be jiggered, Britain has a unicorn on their Royal Coat of Arms.

"Do not believe the Inca Stones with depictions of dragons on them. Or the fact that the skin pattern depicted was only recently verified.

I've seen reports that they are a fraud.

I've also seen pictures of minotaurs, griffins and jackal gods engraved in stone.

"As to you belief that they went extinct before the flood is unknown. That is assuming you even believe in the Flood of Noah's day.

If a global flood the size of that portrayed in the Bible happened as little as 4000 years ago we should be able to predict what physical evidence would be left. We have found mountains of physical evidence but none of it points to a global flood. It just didn't happen.

What evidence we do find is that the majority of dinos went extinct within a few million years of the Chicxulub impact. Those that remained were of the bird 'kind'. We find no dino fossils in with human fossils. Even if they never lived side by side so we shouldn't find the fossils together we should be able to find them within the same level of strata giving a similar relative age, or find them in layers which date the same through radiometric dating. Yet the dinosaurs, no matter where they are found are between layers consistently dated much older than those layers which sandwich human fossils. Unless the type of fossils themselves affect the dating of the layers surrounding them, even if you doubt the absolute date, the relative difference in dates is unquestionable.

"Before the flood things lived longer and grew larger. After the flood things did not live as long therefore did not grow as large.

This is pure conjecture on your part. There is no evidence that organisms lived longer in the past than they do now. The rate of growth in the plexiform perichondral bone in dinosaur skeletons grew rapidly suggesting that even the oldest did not live more than 50 or 60 years.

"It is a scientific fact that reptiles grow until they die. So pre flood larger, post flood smaller.

Even the fastest growing reptile, growing at a couple dozen grams a day would take centuries to reach the size of a large elephant let alone a large dinosaur. The reason reptiles continue to grow for such a length of time is because they have extremely slow metabolisms. Later dinos such as TRex were more closely related to birds than to crocs. Birds have quite fast metabolisms. They do not grow throughout their entire lives. Sauropods and theropods had pneumatic vertebrae, shortened stiffened dorsal columns and mobile abdominal ribs as well as other features shared with birds but not reptiles.

If you want accurate analogs to dinosaurs look to birds not extant reptiles.

"There are many legends (which is not a scientific fact, same as evolution is not scientific but a hypothesis on unproved ideals) of dinosaurs seem by tribal people in South America and Africa.

Are you sure all those legends are talking about the same animal?

Legends are not evidence for anything but the imagination of human beings.

Would you mind explaining to me why the existence of dinosaurs at the same time as humans would lend support to the Biblical flood, or be evidence against evolution?