Free Republic

That is absurd. Christians have shed more blood over religious reasons than Osama ever could, including at one point 1/2 the population of Southern France for the "crime" of heresy (literal translation, "Free Choice"). The very concept of a "Holy War" was created by Pope Urban II in 1095, then exported to the middle east at the point of a sword. Add to that all the witches burned at the stake, and the tortures and horrors of the "Holy" Inquisition, which did not officially close until the 19th Century. Let us not forget all the clergy who were arrested in Rwanda for aiding in the genocide against the Tutsi. Israel justifies its continued displacement and maltreatment of the Palestinians on religious grounds.

Jerusalem was conquered on 7/15/1099 and 60,000 non-Christians were killed. Bodies were slit open to search for gold coins they might have swallowed. Jews who had taken refuge in the city's synagogue were burned alive, thousands of muslims were chopped to death in Al-Aqsa mosque. According to the Archbishop of Tyre, who was an eye-witness, "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition".

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" -- Jeremiah 48:10, Motto of Pope Gregory VII.

"Kill them all. Let God sort them out!" -- Saint Dominic, at the genocide of the Albigensians.

After all that death and destruction, justified with the promise that some invisible man up in the clouds says it's okay, it's amusing to watch folks standing around with a puzzled look on their faces, scratching their heads like idiots, and wondering why so much hatred is coming back the other way.

I seem to recall a phrase from the Bible about he who is without sin being the first to cast stones. That has to apply to religions as well. As long as you stand allied with a religion with so much blood on its hands, you have no right to cast judgement on any other.

It is from equal bands of butchers calling each other the greater criminal that wars arise.

Now all of you STOP IT, and go to your rooms!

I'll bet if you ask real nice, they'll let you hold the pliars.

The American government likes to lull the American people to sleep with a lullaby that we are bringing freedom, democracy, and prosperity to the rest of the world, but the reality is quite something else. The American government has, in the name of vested commercial interests, backed some of history's worst dictatorships, including those of Batista and the Shah of Iran. Then, when the oppressions and impoverishments committed by these puppets against their people resulted in revolutions, the American people, befuddled, scratched their heads and wondered why anyone in Cuba or Iran could possibly prefer Castro or Ayatolla Khomeini over leaders who were bringing them the benefits of "truth, justice, and the American way".

I've visited a great deal of the world. Some people love us. More do not. It's unrealistic to expect any people to love a nation that imposes, often with force of arms, its values and its gods upon others. You can call it "peacekeeping" all you want; it's still an invasion to those who stop the bullets.

The fact is that we still do not really know who the villian is in New York and DC. We only know that the government and media which has lied to us so many times before is pointing the two minute hate at Osama Bin Laden, a former (if there is such a thing) contract agent for the CIA and a heck of a convenient patsy if a Presidential dynasty that owns a petroleum company wants an excuse to go in and invade a lot of oil wells.

It's clear that the goal of these attacks was to start a war, a war that is most assuredly AGAINST the interests of the Arabs and for the interests of other parties, especially those interested in controlling more of the region's oil.

And while no attack could ever destroy America, it is clear that these attacks are intended to trick Americans into destroying what American stands for. Already we are seeing calls for a suspension of basic rights and due process, indeed the very qualities of American life we point to as our gift to the rest of the world (and justification for our military incursions into other people's lands).

If we throw away the Bill of Rights because racial profiling is "common sense", then we throw away all that America stands for. When we do that, those who attacked New York and DC will have succeeded, even if we hunt them down and kill them.

Maybe what you call "common sense measures" is the real agenda of those who planned the attacks.

Remember the Reichstagg Fire? Committed by one party and blamed on another, specifically so that the German people would accept the necessity of "common sense" measures to protect Germany.

After all the lies we have suffered at the hands of this government and the media, are you really so sure you are getting the facts now, in your rush to throw away the Constitution? I'm not. The first thought that comes to mind when I hear a claim that the FBI has caught a pilot in Florida is that this is probably a plant to point the finger of blame in he wrong direction. Anyone really connected with this attack is already out of the country. And in the heat of the moment, let us not forget that this is still the same FBI that got caught faking evidence in the Vince Foster case, withholding and destroying evidence in the OK City bombing case, are ALLOWED the first attack on the World Trade Centers to go forward! I haven't forgotten COINTELPRO. Why have you? Hitler always said, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it. PLease examine your own eagerness to believe and recognize it for the warning sign that it is.

The pundits keep calling these attacks the new "Pearl Harbor". I look out on Pearl Harbor from my office, and I think it's a good idea to keep the Real Pearl Harbor in mind right now, especially the recently declassified documents about the Pearl Harbor attack which prove that the US Government lied to the people when it claimed that the attack by Japan was a complete surprise. Not only had FDR maneuvered Japan into the necessity of attack, but declassified documents prove that the Japanese did NOT maintain radio silence at all, but were transmitting so often and so loud that merchant ships knew right where they were and where they were going. A radio operator on a passenger liner for the Matson steamship line worked out a course for the Japanese fleet and handed it to US Navy Intelligence in Honolulu, 3 days before the actual attack, and the White House ordered Admiral Kimmel to prematurely terminate a naval exercise lying in the path of the approaching strike fleet and return the older US ships to Pearl Harbor (while the carriers and 29 more modern ships were sent out to the south). The myth of a surprise attack was manufactured to enrage the American people into support of a war they otherwise did not want. And all through it we heard, "The intelligence services were taken completely by surprise." Sound familier? We're been hearing the same thing the last few days, haven't we?

Wars are started by deception. Remember the last time we went to war in the mid east? Remember the story about how Iraqi troops were stealing incubators from Kuwait hospitals and how angry it made the public? Later on it turned out that story was a fiction, created by PR firm Hill & Knowlton specifically to trick Americans into making decisions with their hearts instead of with their brains.

Contrary to the propaganda of old WW2 movies, the German people did not support Hitler in an invasion of Poland. Hitler had to first manufacture the illusion that Poland had attacked Germany. hen the German people, responding to that "attack", marched into Poland. Once mobilized, they didn't stop until they hit the English channel.

So, how do you KNOW for a fact just who planned and carried out the attacks in New York? The hard fact is that you don't. You only know who you are being told is the villain, based on claims made by an institution with a poor record of honesty to the American people.

It's clear that the goal of these attacks was to start a war, a war that is most assuredly AGAINST the interests of the Arabs and for the interests of other parties, especially those interested in controlling more of the region's oil.

And while no attack could ever destroy America, it is clear that these attacks are intended to trick Americans into destroying what American stands for. Already we are seeing calls for a suspension of basic rights and due process, indeed the very qualities of American life we point to as our gift to the rest of the world (and justification for our military incursions into other people's lands).

If we throw away the Bill of Rights because racial profiling is "common sense", then we throw away all that America stands for. When we do that, those who attacked New York and DC will have succeeded, even if we hunt them down and kill them.

Then everything will become a matter of "security" and America will be gone, which is what those who planned these attacks want; Americans tricked into destroying America.

On a more practical note, one can never trust information obtained under coercive means. Look how many people were burned for the crime of witchcraft bacsed solely on confessions obtained with torture.

It's easy to support and defend the Bill of Rights when it applies to someone you know and care about, your family, your friends, your neighbors. The true of being an American is when you support and defend the Bill of Rights when it applies to someone you have been told you have a reason not to like. And right now too many Americans eager for vengence against mere suspects are willing to discard the Bill of Rights, this most basic core of what our society purports to be. This is what those who planned the attacks in NY and DC really wanted, not to destroy what America is, but to trick Americans into destroying what America is.

Hypothetically, if some third party executed the attacks in New York and DC for the specific purpose of placing the blame onto the Palestinians, yours would be the precise reaction they were trying to manufacture. Are you really so easy to use and manipulate?

Let us not forget that the party you defend has shown an utter ruthlessness in achieving their aims, even to the point of killng Americans, as occured during the attack on the USS Liberty.

If we, in the heat of the moment and the lust for revenge, surrender our basic American principles of justice, fair play, and the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt before allowing a people to be punished, then the terrorists have won, even if we succeed in hunting them down and killing them. We become the very hypocrites for whom justice is just a slogan that the terrorists want the rest of the world to see us as.

For a real American, the Bill of Rights has to apply to everyone or it is not worth the parchment it is written on. Are you so eager to discard what so many paid for in blood?

That's what the people who planned the WTC attacks really want.

Hitler had his henchmen commit crimes which were then blamed on the Jews, so that the German people would not oppose the subsequent oppressions and exterminations. Are you really so certain that some third party isn;t playing the same trick again, with the Arabs (and their oil fields) as the targets this time? I'm not. Not after seeing this government and media lie to us about JFK, MLK, RFK, TWA 800, Ron Brown, Iran-Contra, Pearl Harbor, USS Iowa, The Gulf of Tonkin, Vince Foster, etc. etc. etc.

I am a real American. The Bill of Rights still means something to me. The Palestinians are innocent of New York and DC until proven guilty with verifiable FACTS, not just statements leaked to the press by anonymous government sources. And I will not allow tax dollars or children to be spent on a war unless and until proof beyond a reasonable doubt exists that such a war is aimed at the real culprit and not just a politically convenient target.

Anything less, and the people who planned the NY and DC attacks have already won.

My thesis which you call "whackjob" and B.S. is that these attacks were too large and well planned to have been the work of a terrorist group and required the resources of a nation-state.

From http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html

Israeli officials and intelligence analysts said the suicide
        hijackings that downed the World Trade Center and
        destroyed parts of the Pentagon was too large an operation
        for any one group. The analysts said the operation was also
        too big even for a coalition of Islamic terrorists headed by
        Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden. 

So, I guess Israelis are "short on facts and long on B.S." too, right?

Had they found a Bible, would they claim the Pope was behind the attacks?

Folks, if we set aside basic American principles like poof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in response to a terrorist attack, then the terrorists have won, even if we catch and kill them.

I don't know who planned the attacks in New Yok and DC. But I do know that our own government, aided by the media, lied to us all about major events of the pas including various "lone assasins", TWA 800, Pearl Harbor, etc. It would be folly to assume that the government and the media ae being any more truthful with us now.

T H E   N E W   Y O R K   T I M E S

* * * * * 

Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1

"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"



By Ralph Blumenthal

Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building
a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center,
and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting
harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after
the blast.

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb
and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by
an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer,
Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

From http://cas.faa.gov/fam.html

External Security
                Federal Air Marshal (FAM) Program

                The FAM program provides an anti-hijacking capability for U.S. civil
                aviation. The program provides a covert, armed security force capable of
                conducting anti-hijacking operations and of deploying rapidly. FAMs are
                specially trained Special Agents who travel on U.S. air carriers along
                routes and into areas where worldwide terrorist activities indicate the
                highest probability of hijacking. FAMs are authorized to carry firearms and,
                if they reasonably believe a person has or is committing a felony, they can
                make arrests without warrant for any offense against the U.S. 

                The FAM program serves as a deterrent to hijacking and other forms of
                terrorist activity aboard inflight aircraft. It is authorized by the Federal
                Aviation Act of 1958, the Anti-Hijacking Act of 1947, and the International
                Security and Development Cooperation Act of 1985. Order 1650.6,
                Federal Air Marshal Program, governs the FAM program. 

Discovery Wings had a show on them just two weeks ago, and I called the Honolulu airport on this. Sky Marshalls are still used. Passengers and hijackers aren't supposed to know they are there (as you demonstrate).

The Honolulu airport says otherwise. I checked.

They looked through the camera (SLR) and took the lens off. And yes they checked my keyring, and what they say is is that it was a purely random check, that every so many bags coming through get a thorough inspection.

Congratulations on your being able to get a knife on board a plane. You have been very lucky not to get caught. But terrorists cannot rely on luck, they have to plan, because if just one of them had gotten caught, it would increase the chances that more of them would get caught, not to mention that the US would know who to launch the nukes at.

And you are still evading the second point I raised, that somehow these four teams knew they would be on flights that did not have sky marshalls and that they could use their knives without fear of being shot.

Or do you mean nation-state as in the United States?"

I mean nation-state as in nation-state; having the intelligence assets in place needed to bypass airport security with 100% success and the ability know which flights did or did not have sky marshalls.

How would your seven year old son know that the plane he was on did not carry a sky marshall and that therefore he would be able to use his knife without getting shot?

The people who planned yesterday's attack hit four for four picking planes without sky marshalls.

Three weeks ago, and they went through my camera bag in fine detail.

You didn't read what I wrote. They acheived 100% success rate getting past airport security and 100% success rate knowing which planes were not going to have sky marshalls.

Having that kind of ability takes the resources of a nation state, not a fringe group.