Free Republic

This is un-Constitutional, from what you've wrote too I agree. Plus, I'm not sure if it's your civil rights or what is being violated when the state looks into your internet purchases, credit card purchases and especially what you have had delivered to your house via every method possible. The NY dept. of finance says in the letter they KNOW the 67 cartons were delivered so that means not only did they obtain his name from one of these online companies in court but they know how many reached our home at what dates. That's creepy and I didn't know your privacy can be so invaded like that, this isn't like a murder or some kind of serious crime that was being investigated. Just a hard working guy (7 days a week) who wants to enjoy an unusual brand of cigs and could only find them online which happened to be out of state. You all have great points about taxing steak, candy, etc... Don't doubt stuff like that won't happen. The invasion of our privacy is the worst part of this which is why the news reporters wanted this story badly. Also, I have been doing a lot of reasearch and one question I get the same answer to. THE RETAILER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CHARGING ANY SALES TAX. You don't go after the buyers, it's insane. Currently it's been 3 days now of reporters calling here and coming over and right now as I type, Andy is on the phone with the Los Angeles Times who just called us wanting a phone interview. I told him to come on here when he can after he gets off the phone, to type some things since he's a great writer and I'm not so great at writing...lol. It's nice to see everyone realizing how serious this is and how it's not about smoking, it's about big brother more than anything else. Whoever read the book "1984" must be pretty shooken up right now. There's a part in the book about how you have to get up each morning and you're in front of cameras in your home and are made to do exercise and keep a certain fitness level. One of you mentioned something like that in your post and it reminded me of the book 1984.

No, cigs4cheap.com was not based in New York at all, it was based in Virginia. From Andy's understanding (he's not positive), all Virginia based online cigarette retail sites were subpoenaed, he believes this because he ordered from another place called cig-outlet.com but not cigs4cheap.com to his knowledge. cig-outlet.com hasn't been mentioned in the news but they had to have subpoenaed them to get the customer list and that's how they got Andrew Hoffer's name. We think they went after all sites besides the American Indians since they are tax exempt and don't disclose information ever to anyone or agency, they don't have to either apparently. I'm almost positive everyone can order their cigarettes from the American Indian's via the internet and have no problem at all, the government can't touch them. When this is all over, I guess the American Indians will get all the customers who intentionally want cheaper prices on cigs, just my guess.

Well, talking to family and friends about living in New York City and the costs skyrocketing of rent and basically everything. The working/middle class people are slowly leaving, going to the suburbs and other states so NYC will soon be left with the very rich and the very poor.

I may be mistaken but I thought buying anything through the internet, mail order, ebay, etc.. from out of state meant you didn't have to pay sales tax. Cigarettes i suppose didnt' fall under that but now Bloomberg is saying that ANYTHING bought out of state YOU are responsible for paying sales tax..I thought it was the sellers responsibilty to charge sales tax if necessary, not chase down each and every buyer of some product and nail them with a large bill and 30 days to pay up or else. Doesn't everyone buy stuff like bed linens or towels, clothing, etc... from the internet usually from out of state? Will we all get a letter going back a few years saying we owe like $40,000 for the purchases of everything we bought since the year 2001 or something like that? I'm wondering what's to come in the future.
Since the company Andy found that had his BRONCO cigs available happened to be out of state because they DON'T sell that brand here and he orders them. He sees a total, pays it via credit card and waits for the delivery not knowing if he was charged tax or not because the seller figures taxes in I thought. Plus like mentioned before, out of state purchases people thought were tax free anyway. He wasn't trying to avoid tax, he just wanted to find his favorite economy brand of BRONCO's. That's all, now he's being treated like a criminal along with thousands of other people. The FACT that they KNEW the exact number of cartons from 4/2002 through 7/2004 and that they were delivered and signed for is very scarey. That's why he went to the NY Post to ask about the letter. The letter didn't even explain how they got his name, what retailer he purchased from, or anything telling how they knew so much about him. That is what was the alarming thing, not so much the $1005 due. They must have gone to U.P.S. and got their records of signatures, it's the only way they could have known of delivery. Isn't that sort of infringing on civil rights? or privacy?

Yes I plan to hang around FR and I'm not just passing through. I was interested in other's opinions and having conversation, not to just vent. My main point was that Andy has the letter and I saw some questions on other threads about this whole topic so he said he'd type on here answering anything. I am going to ask him to scan the letter we received and only block out our address and put it on his website so everyone can read what this thing really says. It's long so I can't type it all but it's big-brotherish and very nasty. Also i wanted to talk with all of you and see if anyone else got the letter or if anyone is going to try and fight it. Andy is probably going to pay, going to have to. When he wakes up (he works overnights) he's going to love to see all the input on the subject because he thought nobody realized how serious this was getting but apparently many do see it now.
Oh and yes I read the comment just made about me voting that guy into office. I'm not going to say whether I did or didn't but point taken.

I'm new to this site so I'm getting a bit lost on multiple pages...lol but I was looking at this one which is where I typed 2 rather lenghty letters/posts. I think it's the same article you just gave me the link to.

CITY SMOKES OUT 'NET TAX (NYC Taxing Internet Cigarette Purchases) New York Post ^ | 1/13/05 | DAVID SEIFMAN

Andrew Hoffer is my fiance, there's one thread about his story already from the NY Post that someone put up. I wanted to put this CBS2 one up myself since it has a clickable link on the page to the video that aired on t.v. He's willing to type on here and answer any questions pertaining to the letter or whatever else. The public should know what's really going on, it's not about just the tax, that's not even the big issue. Please post comments of what you think about this story and questions are welcomed. Andy told me already he will come on here if anyone would want that. Thank you all for reading this. ~ concerned fiance of Andrew

http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstoriesny_story_013111240.html

http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstoriesny_story_013111240.html

Above is a link to the CBS2 Article on my fiance (Andy Hoffer) and you can click "view video with Marsha Kramer" to see him interviewed in my home...lol.

Anyway,
To All:

Hi again, it’s Adrienne Fox the fiancé of Andrew Hoffer, the man all over the news in New York City and the radio and the NY Post page 2 from I think Jan 12th, 2005.

Nobody has written back on here yet since the 13th besides the letter I wrote myself, by accident in duplicate, sorry about that.

I talked to Andy and told him of this site and of all the comments from all of you smart people, I agree with everything you all basically had to say on this cigarette tax mess. I asked him if he would mind signing up here and writing something for you people or answering questions that any of you type. He’s so far been contacted by just about every news agency, newspaper and other reporters and non-reporters even so he doesn’t mind educating the public on what’s really happened here with the letter we received, very viciously worded letter totally mailed out of the blue with no warning letter ever.

Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in or stand up for yourself and tell you story even if you stand alone. I’m glad to see all of you have your heads screwed on tight, judging by your comments you TOO see what’s really happening here and this is only the beginning. I knew that Patriot Act was very dangerous but due to 9/11/01, everyone was looking the other way while they passed that quietly. Now Bloomberg and his Gestapo can basically kick your door in with their Jackboots because you might have something that’s a “no no”. Who even knows what’s illegal anymore? I can drive a few minutes to Long Island, NY and purchase a carton of cigarettes like tons of New Yorker’s do and pay half of what I pay at my local corner deli, that’s ok? or is it? Everyone thinks it is. BUT you go on the internet NOT to avoid tax but to find an obscure, economy brand of cigs that you happen to like after being introduced to them from a friend in Kentucky and you click click click, bam your order is done, free U.P.S. shipping and right to your door. That’s great, they have my weird brand, free shipping to my house, it’s out of state of course since New York doesn’t sell this brand, all is fine right? Over 2 years later with no warning or knowledge of any wrongdoing, you get a vicious 3-4 page letter giving you 30 days from the date on the letter to pay up for 67 cartons that they KNOW you bought and KNOW were signed for and delivered to you. How do they know that? They got the names from a website down south of New York in a court case forcing the handing over of all information of the customers. (Thought online purchases were private and secure, think again). They somehow strong-armed U.P.S. and/or the U.S.P.S. to get records of signatures. 67 cartons makes no sense because Andy wouldn’t order an odd number, it would be 10 here 20 there so who knows where they got that number. Now you better pay the tax on the cigarettes that costs more than cigarettes themselves by the way. Can’t come up with $1,005 in 30 days because you’re a hard working, working class guy barely able to make the rent and survive in New York City? Too bad, then you will pay 200$ per carton ($13,400) and if you can’t pay that then we will garnish your wages putting you in the poor house, take money from your bank account, put leans on whatever you have, file a case against you suing you and unmentioned further actions. Wow…I think of the Boston Tea Party, I think of Nazi Germany, a police state, very bad things.
I’ve heard “well it’s unfair to the smokers who paid/pay the tax at their local deli”. Yes, the point it that HE DIDN’T do this to avoid taxes! He didn’t even think of tax or have it cross his mind, it was out of state via the internet and who knows how that works really, especially 2 years ago? It said nothing of taxes on the site, what it did say was the brand of BRONCO cigs he wanted and if they ship to New York and even free shipping, that’s all the better and it must be legal, why not? These weren’t regular Marlboro or Newport Cigs, they’re a very cheap economy ultra light type cig that you can’t find anywhere but the web. Bloomberg said on TV “these people are avoiding taxes AND buying the cigarettes for resale not personal use/consumption”. That’s a crock of BS. 67 cartons from April 2002 through July 2004 is not personal consumption? He’s a smoker, not a retailer. He works for a utility company very hard 7 days a week just to try and keep his head above water with living costs and getting accused of avoiding taxes purposely and now reselling them? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while. Yes, one lady in the newspaper did apparently purchase like thousands of cartons, enough that it would appear as she was reselling them but that number would have to be very high and probably was Marlboro’s or more than one brand. Who is going to sell a cigarette called BRONCO ultra lights? Haha! Plus a smoker isn’t going to sell his own cigarettes or what will he smoke? Its just absurd to hear the comments being made by Bloomberg and “what’s her face” that I have to thank for helping to carry out the mailing of these letters with thousands more to still come!
I don’t know if any of you got a letter yet but I surely don’t like the government or state or city looking at everything delivered to my house via all delivery companies and U.S. mail too. I don’t want my credit card statements looked at, my purchases, my online purchases or mail order and my government telling me how I must live my life by saying (to my fiancé actually) “we will make you quit smoking by taxing the hell out of you until you’re in the poorhouse”. It’s an addiction so people are going to keep smoking until THEY decide they want to quit and throw away their pack of cigarettes, nobody strong-arming them will do it, am I wrong? As one of you mentioned, I don’t think they want everyone to quit, I think they want their insanely high tax money whether you’re buying out of state or not. Knowing that most smokers that bought online cigarettes are working class (somewhat poor), it’s great for them because in 30 days when most Americans can’t come up with the money that fast and no payment plan or warning was ever offered, well now they can sock you for 200 bucks a carton with severe penalty if you can’t pay that! Need money? Go after the smokers first, next go after fat people, tax $5 extra per “Big Mac” at McDonalds. All the things you bought over the past 2 years and had delivered to your house, well that can all be looked up in detail and if you get one of these letters saying you must now pay $18,000 in tax from all your out of state purchases since 2002, you better get that money fast. I’m pi**ed of as all heII as you can tell. I thought writing this long letter might spark some interest in you guys/gals to reply back about your feelings on this big brother issue, not so much the cig tax but what is really behind it and what our own government can do to us. Who’s protecting us from our own government? Ok, well, Andrew expects some “bashing” too, not everyone he said will be on his/the other smoker’s side but we’d like to hear all opinions anyway and the 4 page letter is sitting here if anyone’s curious as to how seriously worded it is and how much they know about all of you. Thanks for reading my rant, hope many of you post your comments and we can have a civil conversation on here. As promised Andrew Hoffer will come on here if anyone wants to ask questions. By the way, nice to meet all of you. Take Care everyone and use cash…LOL!

HoggerFox

Adrienne Fox, New York City, NY

(I posted this down below by accident so I'm putting it up top here now, I'm new to this site)

Hi everyone. I stumbled across this site and signed up because I am Andrew Hoffer's fiance. He's the man that has been interviewed by NY channels: CBS 2, FOX 5, ABC 7, WWOR-UPN 9, and WBIX 11 plus was in the NY Post page 2, even on the radio and reporters are still calling today (1/14/05). In response to how they got the customers names: There was a court case filed against at least one online cigarette website company and the company was forced to hand over their list of the thousands of customers. Andy only used the internet to obtain his cigarettes because he smokes and enjoys a very obscure brand which isn't sold anywhere but he found it was sold online. He wasn't doing this for the purpose of avoiding tax anyway, he simply saw the brand he'd been looking for and ordered. Scarey thing is that whatever you order online, with your credit card, whatever you have delivered to your house is KNOWN about. Talk about big brother.. The letter stated not only that he purchased 67 cartons from July 2002 to April 2004 but it said basically they know 67 cartons were delivered, meaning signed for. If anyone wants to know more, I rather not speak for him but I'm sure if anyone has questions he'll come on here and answer them. I will tell him about this website when he wakes up. On one news channel he did compare this to the Boston Tea Party, don't know if any of you saw that. Anyway, I figured the public should know what's going on and how this is much more then simply having to pay $1,005 tax for the past 2 years. It's invasion of privacy, civil rights violations, much more then just about cigarette tax. Well, any questions you all want the answers to, I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions that the media may not have told you. Oh and if doesn't pay this money in less than 30 days, they said: garnishment of wages, taking the money from his personal bank account PLUS he would have to pay $200 per carton which equals about $13,400 and possible lawsuit. Something is very wrong here.

Sincerely,
Adrienne Fox

Hi everyone. I stumbled across this site and signed up because I am Andrew Hoffer's fiance. He's the man that has been interviewed by NY channels: CBS 2, FOX 5, ABC 7, WWOR-UPN 9, and WBIX 11 plus was in the NY Post page 2, even on the radio and reporters are still calling today (1/14/05). In response to how they got the customers names: There was a court case filed against at least one online cigarette website company and the company was forced to hand over their list of the thousands of customers. Andy only used the internet to obtain his cigarettes because he smokes and enjoys a very obscure brand which isn't sold anywhere but he found it was sold online. He wasn't doing this for the purpose of avoiding tax anyway, he simply saw the brand he'd been looking for and ordered. Scarey thing is that whatever you order online, with your credit card, whatever you have delivered to your house is KNOWN about. Talk about big brother.. The letter stated not only that he purchased 67 cartons from July 2002 to April 2004 but it said basically they know 67 cartons were delivered, meaning signed for. If anyone wants to know more, I rather not speak for him but I'm sure if anyone has questions he'll come on here and answer them. I will tell him about this website when he wakes up. On one news channel he did compare this to the Boston Tea Party, don't know if any of you saw that. Anyway, I figured the public should know what's going on and how this is much more then simply having to pay $1,005 tax for the past 2 years. It's invasion of privacy, civil rights violations, much more then just about cigarette tax. Well, any questions you all want the answers to, I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions that the media may not have told you. Oh and if doesn't pay this money in less than 30 days, they said: garnishment of wages, taking the money from his personal bank account PLUS he would have to pay $200 per carton which equals about $13,400 and possible lawsuit. Something is very wrong here.

Sincerely,
Adrienne Fox