Posted on 01/13/2005 12:55:31 AM PST by kattracks
Big Brother Bloomberg is watching.Smokers who've been buying cigarettes from Internet sites to beat the city's $1.50-a-pack tax are in for a shock: tax collectors know who you are and are now sending out thousands of bills going back more than two years, The Post has learned.
Andrew Hoffer, a utility worker who lives in Queens, told The Post he was flabbergasted to get a threatening letter from the Finance Department demanding $1,005 for the taxes due on purchases he made back to July 2002.
"I had a feeling of violation," said Hoffer, 37. "Internet purchases are traditionally considered private and secure. This just doesn't seem right to me at all."
In fact, residents have to pay full city taxes on whatever they buy, even outside the five boroughs.
By law, New Yorkers who order untaxed merchandise over the Web are required to forward the applicable tax to state and city authorities. Few do.
[SNIP]
n a Jan. 10 letter to Hoffer, the Finance Department wrote that it had "obtained information from cigarette retailers that you purchased over the Internet and received delivery in New York City of 67 cartons of untaxed cigarettes during the period July 2002 through April 2004."
Hoffer was advised that many online cigarette retailers claim they can offer huge savings because their cigarettes are tax-free.
"Those claims are false," wrote Assistant Commissioner Carlton Butler of the Office of Tax Enforcement.
Hoffer was given 30 days to pay up or face interest and penalties of up to $200 a carton.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
That was my thought as well.
HUH? Been doing it for years this way & never had a problem - why is there a problem now?
Because the government isn't getting it's tax (extortion) money.
That's ok though. I've gone a step further than rolling my own. Now I GROW my own and the entire collective governments and all their alphabet agencies can kiss my big, white, all-American butt!
From the confiscated shipments address labels.
Oh do I agree with you.
I just submitted a letter to the editor and it is also posted http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=863
The news letter just came....
They scream, cry about lack of revenus and raise taxes, yet they refuse to do anything about the senseless law.
Silver refuses to allow this out of committee to get a floor vote, he knows it will be defeated.
This is where our ass emblymen are failing us.
What about the Altzheimer and Parkinson (smoking lowers the risk)? Do you want to reduce the risk of lung cancer? Smoke pipe or cigar Clinton way (no inhaling).
And the shipments were criminal because?
I wasn't lucky enough to get lung cancer (which has a reasonable survivability rate). I got pancreatic cancer, which has a 96% kill rate in the first 18 months following initial diagnosis. I'm now 7 months past having 2/3rds of my pancreas, spleen and gall bladder removed as well as having a collapsed lung due to complications of pneumonia.
Now think long and hard about this question: do you really think I want to return to using the very thing that made all that possible?
That's just it, no reason, explanation, or recitation of the violated statute WAS given.... just the FBI had DECIDED they were 'illegal'.
New York has lost an estimated $77 million in revenue, $50 million in wages and 3,000 jobs(including McDonald's, Starbuck's and liquor stores) after its ban started.
California's hospitality industry grew by 8 percent after its smoking ban was implemented;
the rest of the nation saw hospitality grow by 30 percent to 35 percent. In Massachusetts,
a legislator is already proposing to roll back its smoking ban because of lost revenues
I just read it in the news letter..
BUMP!
Wow, what an article! It really is just like Woody Allen's "Sleeper"!
Ping!
**I guess SheLion's not up yet; or she's busy**
One of my relatives got the cancer of the throat and he did NOT smoke. If he did everyone would be convinced that smoking was the cause. On the other hand, another member of my family (with whom I share the genes) has Parkinson. Smoking without inhaling might be a good risk for me.
Thanks for the ping! I suspect you are right. :)
Looks like I may have to post my little ditty about causation and correlation again, lol!
Hi everyone. I stumbled across this site and signed up because I am Andrew Hoffer's fiance. He's the man that has been interviewed by NY channels: CBS 2, FOX 5, ABC 7, WWOR-UPN 9, and WBIX 11 plus was in the NY Post page 2, even on the radio and reporters are still calling today (1/14/05). In response to how they got the customers names: There was a court case filed against at least one online cigarette website company and the company was forced to hand over their list of the thousands of customers. Andy only used the internet to obtain his cigarettes because he smokes and enjoys a very obscure brand which isn't sold anywhere but he found it was sold online. He wasn't doing this for the purpose of avoiding tax anyway, he simply saw the brand he'd been looking for and ordered. Scarey thing is that whatever you order online, with your credit card, whatever you have delivered to your house is KNOWN about. Talk about big brother.. The letter stated not only that he purchased 67 cartons from July 2002 to April 2004 but it said basically they know 67 cartons were delivered, meaning signed for. If anyone wants to know more, I rather not speak for him but I'm sure if anyone has questions he'll come on here and answer them. I will tell him about this website when he wakes up. On one news channel he did compare this to the Boston Tea Party, don't know if any of you saw that. Anyway, I figured the public should know what's going on and how this is much more then simply having to pay $1,005 tax for the past 2 years. It's invasion of privacy, civil rights violations, much more then just about cigarette tax. Well, any questions you all want the answers to, I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions that the media may not have told you. Oh and if doesn't pay this money in less than 30 days, they said: garnishment of wages, taking the money from his personal bank account PLUS he would have to pay $200 per carton which equals about $13,400 and possible lawsuit. Something is very wrong here.
Sincerely,
Adrienne Fox
(I posted this down below by accident so I'm putting it up top here now, I'm new to this site)
Hi everyone. I stumbled across this site and signed up because I am Andrew Hoffer's fiance. He's the man that has been interviewed by NY channels: CBS 2, FOX 5, ABC 7, WWOR-UPN 9, and WBIX 11 plus was in the NY Post page 2, even on the radio and reporters are still calling today (1/14/05). In response to how they got the customers names: There was a court case filed against at least one online cigarette website company and the company was forced to hand over their list of the thousands of customers. Andy only used the internet to obtain his cigarettes because he smokes and enjoys a very obscure brand which isn't sold anywhere but he found it was sold online. He wasn't doing this for the purpose of avoiding tax anyway, he simply saw the brand he'd been looking for and ordered. Scarey thing is that whatever you order online, with your credit card, whatever you have delivered to your house is KNOWN about. Talk about big brother.. The letter stated not only that he purchased 67 cartons from July 2002 to April 2004 but it said basically they know 67 cartons were delivered, meaning signed for. If anyone wants to know more, I rather not speak for him but I'm sure if anyone has questions he'll come on here and answer them. I will tell him about this website when he wakes up. On one news channel he did compare this to the Boston Tea Party, don't know if any of you saw that. Anyway, I figured the public should know what's going on and how this is much more then simply having to pay $1,005 tax for the past 2 years. It's invasion of privacy, civil rights violations, much more then just about cigarette tax. Well, any questions you all want the answers to, I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions that the media may not have told you. Oh and if doesn't pay this money in less than 30 days, they said: garnishment of wages, taking the money from his personal bank account PLUS he would have to pay $200 per carton which equals about $13,400 and possible lawsuit. Something is very wrong here.
Sincerely,
Adrienne Fox
http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstoriesny_story_013111240.html
Above is a link to the CBS2 Article on my fiance (Andy Hoffer) and you can click "view video with Marsha Kramer" to see him interviewed in my home...lol.
Anyway,
To All:
Hi again, it’s Adrienne Fox the fiancé of Andrew Hoffer, the man all over the news in New York City and the radio and the NY Post page 2 from I think Jan 12th, 2005.
Nobody has written back on here yet since the 13th besides the letter I wrote myself, by accident in duplicate, sorry about that.
I talked to Andy and told him of this site and of all the comments from all of you smart people, I agree with everything you all basically had to say on this cigarette tax mess. I asked him if he would mind signing up here and writing something for you people or answering questions that any of you type. He’s so far been contacted by just about every news agency, newspaper and other reporters and non-reporters even so he doesn’t mind educating the public on what’s really happened here with the letter we received, very viciously worded letter totally mailed out of the blue with no warning letter ever.
Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in or stand up for yourself and tell you story even if you stand alone. I’m glad to see all of you have your heads screwed on tight, judging by your comments you TOO see what’s really happening here and this is only the beginning. I knew that Patriot Act was very dangerous but due to 9/11/01, everyone was looking the other way while they passed that quietly. Now Bloomberg and his Gestapo can basically kick your door in with their Jackboots because you might have something that’s a “no no”. Who even knows what’s illegal anymore? I can drive a few minutes to Long Island, NY and purchase a carton of cigarettes like tons of New Yorker’s do and pay half of what I pay at my local corner deli, that’s ok? or is it? Everyone thinks it is. BUT you go on the internet NOT to avoid tax but to find an obscure, economy brand of cigs that you happen to like after being introduced to them from a friend in Kentucky and you click click click, bam your order is done, free U.P.S. shipping and right to your door. That’s great, they have my weird brand, free shipping to my house, it’s out of state of course since New York doesn’t sell this brand, all is fine right? Over 2 years later with no warning or knowledge of any wrongdoing, you get a vicious 3-4 page letter giving you 30 days from the date on the letter to pay up for 67 cartons that they KNOW you bought and KNOW were signed for and delivered to you. How do they know that? They got the names from a website down south of New York in a court case forcing the handing over of all information of the customers. (Thought online purchases were private and secure, think again). They somehow strong-armed U.P.S. and/or the U.S.P.S. to get records of signatures. 67 cartons makes no sense because Andy wouldn’t order an odd number, it would be 10 here 20 there so who knows where they got that number. Now you better pay the tax on the cigarettes that costs more than cigarettes themselves by the way. Can’t come up with $1,005 in 30 days because you’re a hard working, working class guy barely able to make the rent and survive in New York City? Too bad, then you will pay 200$ per carton ($13,400) and if you can’t pay that then we will garnish your wages putting you in the poor house, take money from your bank account, put leans on whatever you have, file a case against you suing you and unmentioned further actions. Wow…I think of the Boston Tea Party, I think of Nazi Germany, a police state, very bad things.
I’ve heard “well it’s unfair to the smokers who paid/pay the tax at their local deli”. Yes, the point it that HE DIDN’T do this to avoid taxes! He didn’t even think of tax or have it cross his mind, it was out of state via the internet and who knows how that works really, especially 2 years ago? It said nothing of taxes on the site, what it did say was the brand of BRONCO cigs he wanted and if they ship to New York and even free shipping, that’s all the better and it must be legal, why not? These weren’t regular Marlboro or Newport Cigs, they’re a very cheap economy ultra light type cig that you can’t find anywhere but the web. Bloomberg said on TV “these people are avoiding taxes AND buying the cigarettes for resale not personal use/consumption”. That’s a crock of BS. 67 cartons from April 2002 through July 2004 is not personal consumption? He’s a smoker, not a retailer. He works for a utility company very hard 7 days a week just to try and keep his head above water with living costs and getting accused of avoiding taxes purposely and now reselling them? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while. Yes, one lady in the newspaper did apparently purchase like thousands of cartons, enough that it would appear as she was reselling them but that number would have to be very high and probably was Marlboro’s or more than one brand. Who is going to sell a cigarette called BRONCO ultra lights? Haha! Plus a smoker isn’t going to sell his own cigarettes or what will he smoke? Its just absurd to hear the comments being made by Bloomberg and “what’s her face” that I have to thank for helping to carry out the mailing of these letters with thousands more to still come!
I don’t know if any of you got a letter yet but I surely don’t like the government or state or city looking at everything delivered to my house via all delivery companies and U.S. mail too. I don’t want my credit card statements looked at, my purchases, my online purchases or mail order and my government telling me how I must live my life by saying (to my fiancé actually) “we will make you quit smoking by taxing the hell out of you until you’re in the poorhouse”. It’s an addiction so people are going to keep smoking until THEY decide they want to quit and throw away their pack of cigarettes, nobody strong-arming them will do it, am I wrong? As one of you mentioned, I don’t think they want everyone to quit, I think they want their insanely high tax money whether you’re buying out of state or not. Knowing that most smokers that bought online cigarettes are working class (somewhat poor), it’s great for them because in 30 days when most Americans can’t come up with the money that fast and no payment plan or warning was ever offered, well now they can sock you for 200 bucks a carton with severe penalty if you can’t pay that! Need money? Go after the smokers first, next go after fat people, tax $5 extra per “Big Mac” at McDonalds. All the things you bought over the past 2 years and had delivered to your house, well that can all be looked up in detail and if you get one of these letters saying you must now pay $18,000 in tax from all your out of state purchases since 2002, you better get that money fast. I’m pi**ed of as all heII as you can tell. I thought writing this long letter might spark some interest in you guys/gals to reply back about your feelings on this big brother issue, not so much the cig tax but what is really behind it and what our own government can do to us. Who’s protecting us from our own government? Ok, well, Andrew expects some “bashing” too, not everyone he said will be on his/the other smoker’s side but we’d like to hear all opinions anyway and the 4 page letter is sitting here if anyone’s curious as to how seriously worded it is and how much they know about all of you. Thanks for reading my rant, hope many of you post your comments and we can have a civil conversation on here. As promised Andrew Hoffer will come on here if anyone wants to ask questions. By the way, nice to meet all of you. Take Care everyone and use cash…LOL!
HoggerFox
Adrienne Fox, New York City, NY
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.