Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin

Yahoo ^ | 5 Oct 2009 | Philip Pullella

[Gamecock]

An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake. The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ. "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday. A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.

[Petronski]

The reality of our sanctified life is spiritual, not physical "after the commandments and doctrines of men."

That is your command to pitch your copy of the ICR into the sea--fastened with a millstone--and return to the Church Christ founded for you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

No one has to read or believe Calvin’s Institutes. Scripture is all sufficient.

Unlike Roman Catholics who are told their very salvation depends on their church’s catechism.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What's missing is "only."

Translate, please?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lol. So this is just some "stone support?" Are you kidding?

This travesty is outside the main Mary basilica in Rome (Santa Maria Maggiore.)

For your further education, check out the following quotes from Vatican II...

“As St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ... ‘death through Eve, LIFE THROUGH MARY.’ This UNION OF THE MOTHER WITH THE SON IN THE WORK OF SALVATION is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 56, pp. 380-381).

“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but BY HER MANIFOLD INTERCESSION CONTINUES TO BRING US THE GIFTS OF ETERNAL SALVATION. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of ADVOCATE, HELPER, BENEFACTRESS, and MEDIATRIX” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 62, pp. 382-383).

Repent.

[Storm Cloud]

"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." -- Psalms 2:12


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"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." -- Romans 1:21-25


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"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

(Touch not; taste not; handle not; 2

Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?" -- Colossians 2:20-22


Roman Catholicism (my faith) existed before these quotations you cite were even written. I've got much more confidence in this than a religion (Protestantism) that is less than 400 years old.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

So the fact you’ve just acknowledged your faith contradicts the Psalms, Romans and Colossians worries you not at all, right?

[Storm Cloud]

So the fact you’ve just acknowledged your faith contradicts the Psalms, Romans and Colossians worries you not at all, right?

That's a cute comeback, except there is no contradiction between my faith and the verses you have cited.


Is there an adult version of this site anywhere?

[Uri’el-2012]

Storm Cloud
Since Sep 5, 2009

Is there an adult version of this site anywhere?

Welcome to the FR Religion Forum.

May you seek the face of YHvH

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Adults as well as children can read your words and decide for themselves what you're saying...

SC: Roman Catholicism (my faith) existed before these quotations you cite (Psalms, Romans and Colossians) were even written.

Your faith is in an ecclesiocracy rather than in the words of God.

And I've never known anyone who said the papacy predated David. But such is the hubris of Rome and her adherents.

[Swordmaker]

Here are two articles in which Shroud experts comment and debunk the Italian "duplication" of the Shroud:

Science by Press Release? An Editorial Response to the latest Shroud of Turin announcement by Barrie Schwortz.

Experts question scientist’s claim of reproducing Shroud of Turin, quoting Dr. John Jackson, formerly head of the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP).

[Storm Cloud]

I stand corrected on my comment re: your quote from the Psalms, as the Church clearly did not come before David. The rest of your quotes are from the New Testament.

Having said that, you are being disingenuous with your quotation of my comment. I did not list "Psalms, Romans and Colossians" in my remark; you inserted these on your own, without any notation that you had done this. I will look more carefully in the future when I see you "quote" another member.

Cheers.

[grey_whiskers]

Late to the thread.

Get a room, you two. :-)

Or at least read Romans 14:41-12 at each other...

Cheers!

[wmfights]

Christ's own words which He "speaks" clearly without confusion tell us His resurrection is as the sign of Jonah.

Amen, sister.

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

John 20:20 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen yet have believed.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

you are being disingenuous with your quotation of my comment. I did not list "Psalms, Romans and Colossians" in my remark; you inserted these on your own, without any notation that you had done this.

Disingenuous? Are you kidding? Do you even know how internet postings work?

You wrote...

SC: Roman Catholicism (my faith) existed before these quotations you cite (Psalms, Romans and Colossians) were even written.

I "inserted" those books by using the "notation" of parentheses because those are the three quotations you were referring to which I had posted.

I stand corrected on my comment re: your quote from the Psalms, as the Church clearly did not come before David.

A glimmer of reality. Tra-la.

The rest of your quotes are from the New Testament.

Gee. Ya think?

The Roman Catholic church did not pre-date the New Testament. The Roman Catholic church was a medieval concentration of ecclesiastic power-mongering which increasingly took on pagan practices and a militaristic consolidation of power. From 500 to 1500 A.D. weren't called "The Dark Ages" for nothing.

[Judith Anne]

I don’t expect any of the protestants to bother reading anything that doesn’t agree with their personal interpretation of scripture.

But, nice try.

[Petronski]

According to you, that combination of statues indicates that Catholics believe the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Christ Child joined Christ on the cross at Calvary.

Three people on the cross, including two Christs.

Riiiight.

[Petronski]

The Roman Catholic church did not pre-date the New Testament.

But the Catholic Church, founded by Christ circa AD 33, certainly did predate the New Testament.

The New Testament was written by the fathers of the Catholic Church.

As God wills.

[Petronski]

I've got much more confidence in this than a religion (Protestantism) that is less than 400 years old.

Her particular brand of protestantism began in the 1930s.

[Petronski]

Translate, please?

You said "only."

Not true.

[Petronski]

No one has to read or believe Calvin’s Institutes.

Sure.

Unlike Catholics who are told their very salvation depends on the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Orthodox Presbyterian Calvinists are told that if they have come to believe the ICR, they are already saved by predestination, no matter what they do or don't do.

But that is not God that Calvin is describing, but rather Calvin's little pocket deity.