Posted on 11/12/2002 8:21:38 AM PST by blam
Ancient map of Africa poses questions
The unveiling in South Africa's parliament on Monday of a replica of an ancient Chinese map of the then known world which includes a recognisable outline of Africa is raising intriguing questions of which foreigners first explored the continent.
"The idea is to take us beyond what we have been ... brainwashed into believing" declared Speaker Frene Ginwala at the opening of the exhibition, which includes other maps and rock art.
The "Da Ming Hun Yi Tu", the Amalgamated Map of the Great Ming Empire, dates back to 1389, decades before the first European voyages to Africa.
Among recognisable features are the Nile River and South Africas Drakensberg mountain range.
The map also shows a great lake, covering almost half the continents land mass. Researchers suggest it may have been drawn on the basis of an Arab legend that stated "farther south from the Sahara Desert is a great lake, far greater than the Caspian Sea".
(The biggest lake in Africa, Lake Victoria, is in fact only a fifth of the size of the Caspian Sea.)
"We have the worlds best researchers working on it," said parliaments senior researcher Heindri Bailey, who was hesitant about drawing conclusions from it.
"Until we are able to gain the knowledge we wont speculate on it."
The original of the map is housed in Beijing where it has remained wrapped up, sealed and stowed behind a locked door since the fall of Chinas last emperor in 1924. Fewer than 20 people have had access to it since then.
The digitised reproduction of the map on silk is almost four metres (around 12 feet) high and more than four metres across.
Place names are written mostly in Manchu, a now virtually extinct language, and still in need to be translated.
Karen Harris of the historical and heritage studies department at the University of Pretoria said that as early as the 1st century AD records had been found in China mentioning places in Africa.
"They had the capability, definitely," she said. "Theres not so much evidence to prove it, but it isnt a closed book yet."
A picture dated 11 November 2002 shows a detail on the Da Ming Hun Yi Tu (the Amalgamated Map of the Great Ming Empire) dating back to 1389 which is arguably the oldest world map in existence that accurately reflects the African continent.
Harris said that at the time the Chinese were seeking tribute and not trade for the emperor and therefore would not have set up bases or left behind significant markings as was the case with Europeans.
This, she said, would make it difficult to uncover evidence in support of Chinese having been there, adding: "You wouldnt find human remains because the Chinese took their bodies back to their ancestral lands."
But Bailey said some circumstantial evidence existed in South Africa to suggest the Chinese had navigated around Africa long before Bartolomeu Dias rounded the Cape of Good Hope in 1488.
"Chinese pottery has been found in (South Africas northern) Limpopo Province dating back to around the 13th century and there's rock art in the Eastern Cape depicting Chinese-looking characters," Bailey said.
British amateur researcher Gavin Menzies, a submarine engineer, argues in "1421", a book which came out this month, that Chinese admiral Zheng He circumnavigated the globe between 1421 and 1423, 100 years before the crew of Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan, who was killed en route.
Zheng He, a eunuch who never travelled with fewer than 300 ships, the biggest carrying 1000 people, is long known to have visited Asia, India, Gulf countries, and Somalia, from where he took back giraffes and lions.
The official history also mentions "Franca" (France and Portugal) and Holland, with the Hollanders described as tall people with red hair and beards.
To meet them in their homeland, Zheng He would have had to sail round the southern tip of Africa.
This is the first time that a copy of the map has been shown outside China. The original is a derivative of an even earlier one dated 1320, which was believed to have been destroyed.
That was before Zheng He's birth (he lived from 1371 to 1435), which deepens the mystery.
Some of the later European maps on show in parliament illustrate dragons, snakes and one-eyed monsters in the inland regions.
Blacks in this country can have reparations, but ONLY after they get paid reprations by the Chinese. Heh heh heh...
Two good books on the Chinese travels to Africa, for people interested in learning more, are Philip Snow's "The Star Raft" and J.J.L. Duyvendak's "China's Discovery of Africa"...
But are we really to believe that all those seafaring Phoenecians, Egyptians, Carthaginians, Arabs, Greeks, Israelites, Indians, earlier Chinese, and no doubt a host of others, never rode a boat along the east or west coasts of Africa? Hell, it'd be coastal sailing the entire way. An adventure, no doubt, but well within the means of the ancient sailors.
This is interesting stuff, but it's a little too breathless for me.
Looks like there is an advantage in having home base in a country with a very large population.
BTW, I've heard there aren't enough marriageable women in China. Are the Chinese young men sending for mail order brides now? Or are the Chinese leaders planning to launch some ships to travel the world and take home young females?
Just another set of...
FINGERPRINTS OF THE GODS.
Look, there are maps, known to be genuine, which document not only Africa, but ANTARTICA, and the latter continent's surface now covered under a mile thick ice cap. (The Piri Reis Map of the World, made in 1513, 300 years before Antarctica was "discovered")
Even the US Air Force is baffled by it.
This is Luzia, the oldest dated human skeleton, 11,500 years old, ever found in the Americas, Brazil.
(I'll bet some of my retirement money that she didn't, walk over here.)
Invade Pakistan, kill all the Muslim men, take the women (who, I'm sure, would prefer to toss the burkhas in the trash)
The Old Testament is a historical document. I believe that we are the descendants of the culture(s) that existed then, (No I'm not on the Zitchin alien bandwagon). There's a good deal of circumstantial evidence to support this. Only time, and the honesty of the scientific community will tell.
There have also been some interesting discoveries off the west coast of Cuba. Apparently there are what appear to be "obvious" ruins under 2000+ feet of water. 2000 feet of water cannot be accounted for by glacial melting. We're talking catastrophic change. I can't vouch for the validity of the story, but the company that made the discovery was - I believe - testing out new equipment when they made the discovery. They don't appear to have an agenda. Atlantis may have been real after all...
Apparently you missed this...
As a result, they quickly ran out of money for more exploration. The Europeans were much more practical. They stole everything that wasn't tacked down wherever they went. Therefore, European exploration was a self-financing operation.
As Deep Throat said, "Follow the money." It explains a lot.
Congressman Billybob
They wre hired by the Cuban government to search for sunken Spanish treasure ships when they made this discovery.
2000 feet of water cannot be accounted for by glacial melting. "
I have an idea about the 2200 ft depth. I think that the Gulf Of Mexico was blocked off from the world's oceans during the Ice Age and dried out to a lower but stable level. The structures that are now 2200 ft below the surface were in fact built on dry land that was, at that time, the coast of the (reduced water level) Gulf.
Now, as the Ice Age ended, the melting water rose and breached the 'dam' that isolated the Gulf submerging the recently found structures. I think 2200 ft is to great to have subsided.
I also believe that what-ever happened to Atlantis is related to the end of the Ice Age. In my opinion, Atlantis is very old, maybe 15,000 years old or older.
The National Geographic Society had pledged $2 million to the exploration company to investigate these structures but were pressured by the US State department to withdraw because they were affiliated with the communist Cuban government. So... (don't know when we'll know something?)
Thanks, I looked for that but couldn't find it.
Too bad about the problem with Cuba. This has the look of being the "real deal". Whether or not it has anything to do with Atlantis is less important than the find itself. Imagine finding a city over 15,000 years old!
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