Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Testing the DNA of cave art
Bradshaw Foundation ^ | Friday, June 19, 2020 | Bridgette Watson (CBC News)

Posted on 07/02/2020 10:40:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

The University of Victoria paleoanthropologist Genevieve von Petzinger explains that a DNA test, which would reveal genetic mutations due to evolution, could help pinpoint the time period a painting was made and may help determine if the art was actually the handiwork of humans or Neanderthals — who lived about 130,000 to 40,000 years ago.

"It would just be so fascinating to see the identity. The million dollar question is, did Neanderthals paint?"

There is already some indication, according to von Petzinger, that this extinct species was, in fact, artistic. Von Petzinger said that a few years ago, some of her colleagues tested samples of minerals they found covering cave drawings and determined the minerals to be 65,000 years old, which von Petzinger said indicated the art underneath was older and, therefore, drawn by Neanderthals.

She admits that this dating method was hotly debated by others in the field. "It was quite the big drama going back and forth." Perhaps genetic testing could be a way to get a definitive answer; genetic testing can even pinpoint the artist's gender and possibly lead to finding a living descendent.

Von Petzinger said she is incredibly grateful to colleagues, the Spanish government and National Geographic for being willing to believe in her "crazy idea."

(Excerpt) Read more at bradshawfoundation.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: australia; caveart; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; mesolithic; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; neolithic; paleoanthropology; paleolithic; vonpetzinger
New research suggests that markings on cave walls such as these ones from El Castillo in Spain may have been part of a graphic communication system from the Ice Age, long before writing was invented. Image: Dillon von Petzinger

New research suggests that markings on cave walls such as these ones from El Castillo in Spain may have been part of a graphic communication system from the Ice Age, long before writing was invented. Image: Dillon von Petzinger

1 posted on 07/02/2020 10:40:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]


2 posted on 07/02/2020 10:41:31 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...
cave art dna
Google

3 posted on 07/02/2020 10:41:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

DNA from what? Spit used in the paint?

Might work.
How about DNA from any human teeth found nearby?


4 posted on 07/02/2020 10:50:23 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“...did Neanderthals paint?”

Sure they did, they taught Picasso everything he knew


5 posted on 07/02/2020 10:56:38 AM PDT by SMARTY (Freedom from effort in the present means effort has been stored up, in the past. T Roosevelt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

6 posted on 07/02/2020 10:57:10 AM PDT by Phillyred (Kieran Hussie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“genetic testing can even pinpoint the artist’s gender and possibly lead to finding a living descendent”

If I found out I’m a descendent, I’m suing every government in Europe for pilfering my inheritance, using the stolen Nazi art cases as precedent. Ka-ching!


7 posted on 07/02/2020 11:11:27 AM PDT by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Makes me think of the Dan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6PR4l3FF8

8 posted on 07/02/2020 11:24:12 AM PDT by FroedrickVonFreepenstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK
I'm guessing, due to the cool conditions, preservation of cells sloughed off when the artists applied the colors with their bare hands.

9 posted on 07/02/2020 11:29:36 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Earliest known version of Windows.


10 posted on 07/02/2020 12:02:02 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

And what about Denisovan-Human hybrids or Denisovan-Neanderthal-Human hybrids? Its not an either or question - there are numerous combinations.


11 posted on 07/02/2020 1:01:33 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PIF

12 posted on 07/02/2020 1:47:08 PM PDT by EinNYC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Who's DNA? The artist or the critic?


13 posted on 07/02/2020 2:32:10 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Joe Biden- "First thing I'd do is repeal those Trump tax cuts." (May 4th, 2019))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: FroedrickVonFreepenstein

You have good taste.


14 posted on 07/02/2020 2:33:58 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: EinNYC

Hi!

You forgot to write anything :)


15 posted on 07/02/2020 3:34:24 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: PIF

All three of them are humans, for one thing.

The Denisovan sample came from handful of individuals. I carry Denisovan DNA, along with Neandertal DNA, along with DNA from other archaic specimens. Whatever rattles through the daddy-mommy 50% sieve is what each generation gets and preserves, luck of the draw.

> The fossils of five distinct Denisovans from Denisova Cave have been identified through their Ancient DNA (aDNA): Denisova 2, Denisova 3, Denisova 4, Denisova 8, and Denisova 13. Denisova 11 was an F1 Denisovan-Neanderthal hybrid.[8] An mtDNA-based phylogenetic analysis of these individuals suggests that Denisova 2 is the oldest, followed by Denisova 8, while Denisova 3 and Denisova 4 were roughly contemporaneous.[9] During DNA sequencing, a low proportion of the Denisova 2, Denisova 4 and Denisova 8 genomes were found to have survived, but a high proportion of the Denisova 3 genome was intact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan#Specimens


16 posted on 07/02/2020 8:48:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

All three of them are humans, for one thing.

```
Yeah, that’s the ‘modern’ version, but in the past all were considered different species. This convention is sort of like calling all canines ‘dogs’ - a blanket generic name, meaning nothing, but does make ‘modern’ physical anthropologists academic lives easier.


17 posted on 07/03/2020 6:38:35 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Cave drawing, cave painting, chrono, duplicates out:

18 posted on 07/07/2020 8:36:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson