Free Republic

Ketchikan has absolutely the worst weather you can imagine, probably not the best place for such an important critical convention.

If the convention is held in summer, marginally better, but not by much.

Basic to the Dispensational system is the pretrib rapture, which separates the rapture from the 2nd coming, claiming the rapture to take place seven years BEFORE the 2nd coming.

Passages like 2 Thess 2:1-4, tells us (verse 1) the gathering together unto Christ, i.e., the rapture, takes place AT the 2nd coming... not at a pretrib raptue seven years prior to the 2nd coming.
“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him.”

verse 3, 4 goes on to say, there will be a falling away that will give rise to the man of lawlessness, who will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. The falling away and rise of antichrist, in other words, comes first, which the dispensational system reverses, saying Jesus Christ comes first... in a pretrib rapture.

Which (dispensationalism’s pretrib rapture) is the very thing, verse 3 warns us to not be deceived: “Let no man deceive you by any means,” the antichrist comes first, which Christ will destroy, verse 8, at the singular event of his 2nd coming, and rapture.

It’s the old Air Force vs the Navy thing again we’ve been hearing since the cold war, why even have a Navy? all we need is a super-duper Air force, aircraft carriers are obsolete.

Who does Louisiana have to run against Cassidy?

Good post, and good chart.

Here is what Ignatius, AD 30-107, Pastor of the church at Antioch, fellow-disciples with Polycarp under the apostle John, had to say about this issue.

[The parenthesis and caps are mine:]
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things (the old covenant) have come to the possession of a new hope (the gospel, new birth, and new covenant), NO LONGER OBSERVING THE SABBATH, BUT LIVING IN THE OBSERVANCE OF THE LORD’S DAY, ON WHICH ALSO OUR LIFE HAS SPRUNG UP AGAIN BY HIM AND BY HIS DEATH (observing the day of Jesus’ resurrection, the first day of the week)... that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master.
P. 62, The Ante-Nicene Fathers

It is obvious that the church at Antioch, considered the new birth, and the first day of the week, when Jesus was resurrected, had fulfilled the types and shadows of “the ancient order of things.”

Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection (the basics of the gospel) signalling the new order of things of the new covenant had come. Jesus now our Lord, having conquered death on the first day of the week, hence, it is he that takes center stage on “the Lord’s Day.”

Anchorage is beginning to look like left coast cities Seattle, Portland, San Francisco.

The ancient people who penned Genesis and the Pentateuch (Moses), and the old and new testaments, did not care about the modern sciences, what they cared about was knowing the true and living God. Moses was a theologian, not a scientist.

The Bible is about knowing God himself, about spiritual things, and faith. God himself is what commanded Moses thoughts. God is always at the center of all events in Genesis.To try to interject modern scientific thought into Moses, and the ancient and primitive people to whom he wrote, is ludicrous.

The Navy thought of Merchant Marine ships as feather merchants, their ships weren’t for waging war, they were for commerce and transporting merchandise.

At every single hot spot or crisis that erupts in the world, what is the first thing sent but one of our carrier task forces? Look no further than the current crisis with Iran for example. Two carrier task forces were sent.

Obsolete? I think not.

You converted from what to Judaism?

If the Christian rapture preceeds the Jewish tribulation, what’s the big deal?

It is the elect of both Testaments that are resurrected and raptured, gathered at the 2nd coming, Matt. 24:29-31. The faithful Jewish elect of the Old Testament, and faithful Christian elect of the New Testament.

And, it is not just the faithful Jewish elect that will be persecuted in the great tribulation, the faithful Christian elect also.

The book of Hebrews (chapter 11) sees the faithful of both Testaments as one elect people of God, “made perfect” (or completed) by faith.

“Also, the Puritan premillennialist were historic premillennialists, and not dispensational premillennialists.”

Indeed, and that would include Cotton Mather, he was Historic Premillennialist, he was not a Dispensational Premillennialist.

Thank you for your sensible and sincere response.

Jesus told us to watch... through the signs he had just given in Matt. 24. Which neither full or partial preterists do as Jesus commanded: as both types believe all the signs up to the 2nd coming are in the past, i.e., were fulfilled back in 70 AD. Meaning they believe they see no antichrist (Revelation calls him the beast) or great tribulation in their future.

If you believe all the signs Jesus gave up to his 2nd coming were fulfilled back in 70 AD, they you also disobey his command to watch.

Typical of partial preterists, is the cunning craftiness of their “wind of doctrine,” Eph. 4:14.

When this wind first began to blow some years ago among eveangelicals, the preterists believed “all these things” of Matt. 24:34 included the 2nd coming of verses 29-31.
“this generation shall no pass, till all these things are fulfilled.”

They were “consistent” preterists back in those days, their doctrine called a heresy by everyone. They took so much heat from this, that they changed “all these things” to mean everything prophetic in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation up to the 2nd coming was fulfilled in 70 AD... except the 2nd coming. No wonder, that doctrine is now known as inconsistent preterism.

I gather from what you said in this post, that you are a preterist of some kind, apparently a so-called “partial” preterist. Am I correct? If this is not the case, I apologize...but, judging by what you said, it sure looks so.

I have no respect for preterism in general, especially the inconsistent so-called “partial” preterism kindn. Cunning craftiness.

“The existing missile interceptors in California and Alaska are small in number and the rest of the defenses in the United States are spotty and almost insignificant.”

You didn’t mention Canada as part of both the US and Canada’s continental defense grid. Neither do the prospects look good that that will change any time soon.

Will Canada contribute their part in our mutual defense? Of course they should, but I think not, not with all this “Canada must become the 51’st state” hoopla.

Re my post 67: on what I said about the resurrection to take place at the “last day,” mentioned four times by Christ in John chapter six, confirmed again by Martha in John 11:24, when she said to Christ of her dead brother Lazarus, “I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Martha could say this because of the well known passage in the book of Daniel among the Jews, in the book of Daniel, that there would be a resurrection at the last day.

The passage being Dan. 12:1,2, “At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every on that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep on the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice, the passage says the resurrection would take place “at that time.” Which refers to “the time of the end,” Dan. 11:35, when a king would “exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god,” verse 36, which time of the end is applied in 2 Thess. 2:4 to the times of the man of lawlessness, the endtime antichrist.

Which times, Christ said (Matt. 24:21) would be the times of the great tribulation, “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, nor ever shall be.” Which great tribulation leads into the 2nd coming and resurrection, “immediately after the tribulation of those days,” Matt. 24:29-31.

Thus, the “last day” referred to by Martha, when her brother Lazarus would be resurrected, is “immediately after the great tribulation,” the times of antichrist.

Thus the resurrection and rapture occurs, not seven years (pretrib), 3 ½ years (midtrib), nor 1 ½ years (prewrath), before the last day, but at the last day of this age.

There most certainly will be a rapture/harpazo at the resurrection, a gathering of believers in Christ, but it happens at the 2nd coming “immediately after the tribulation of those days,” the great tribulation, Matt. 24:29-31.

the resurrection and rapture are part of the 2nd coming, not a separate event from it, variously believed to take place seven years (pretribs), or 3 1/2 years (midtribs), 1 1/2 years (prewraths) before that singular event at the 2nd coming.

Following Christ in his Olivet Discourse, everybody in church history believed the resurrection would take place at the singular 2nd coming event (Matt. 24:29-31). In the gospel of John, Christ said it will take place at the “last day,” John 6:39. 40, 44, 54, confirmed again in chapter 11 (verse 24).

Except for BC I think you are right, Vancouver pretty much rules BC.

Correction, God called Abram and Sarai about four thousand years ago, not six thousand.

We should bear in mind what God had in mind, namely the future fulfillment of the seed of the woman prophecy, Gen. 3:15. Gen. 3:15 being the first prophecy of the Bible.

There would be long running enmity between the serpent, and the woman and her seed. A woman would give birth to a son whose heel would be bruised in that enmity, i.e., Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, but ultimately would crush the head of the serpent in that enmity. And, as women do not have “seed,” this Son’s birth also prophesies something supernatural, the virgin birth.

We know what happened in God’s promise of a son to be born to Abraham and Sarah (whom the Bible says was barren), though they both had become very old yet Isaak was born. We should recognize God’s intervention was supernatural.

Obviously, Isaak was not the fulfillment of the Gen. 3:15 prophecy of the seed of the woman, Isaak only pointed to another, and far greater, Son who would be supernaturally conceived, who would ultimately prevail over the serpent.

When God promises something, as in the promise made to Abraham of a son, though the situation of Sarah’s infertility seemed impossible, rest assured it will happen.

This is truly an incredible narrative, God calling Abram and Sarah almost six thousand years ago, who was infertile, yet with a promise of a son whose birth would have to be supernatural! We should ask ourselves, why this strange narrative in the first place? unless God had in mind a future Son? Jesus Christ the Son of God.