Free Republic

Though I wish it were so, I’m not confident they are going to back down and leave Georgia. Did any of you happen to catch “Russia: The Angry Giant” on Fox this weekend? I recorded it and finally got to watch it last night. As the number two oil supplier in the world the have repositioned themselves for power and have ramped up their military. Can you imagine Obama in power if we have to go up against Russia?! He’d roll over and play dead and wait for “Grandma” and “Michelle” to tell him how to proceed, since they’d be his national security strategists ...

Thanks for this great write-up of supportive scripture. It is much appreciated.

Sad to say, Barack Obama has no real convictions because he has not the faintest idea who he really is.

Very well stated!

Hi - will any of you against Warren enlighten me with some specifics? I already agree that Joel Olsteen preaches a watered down “Prosperity Gospel” but I have not seen this with what I know about Warren. I am sensitive to false doctrine. I am a Bible believing Christian against any form of false doctrine that goes against a strict interpretation of scripture, the Bible. We have done several of his studies as a group at my church and I have never seen anything unBiblical in his teaching. However, if I have missed something I would really like to know. The authority lies with God and not with man. Detailed specifics of Warrens deviations from scripture would be much appreciated.

Thanks Elsie! Those verses are awesome. Your work, and the work of others on this ping list, to expose the lies of this cult is much appreciated. Though I don't always comment (perpetually biting my tongue on these LDS threads) I am a faithful reader and am continuously praying against this force.

p.s. - I am "sister" not "brother" ... :)

I agree too. I was thinking as I watched it that Obama said nothing of substance. McCain was quick and decisive and a true leader who I would entrust my country to. Whereas Obama is a dreamer who you’d at most want to have coffee with and philosophize with - he’s a dreamer. McCain is a leader. I heard yesterday someone say it was the difference between a boy and man - I could not agree more. Do you want Obama’s grandma and wife running our country, or true historical leaders with valid experience in national security, etc.? I couldn’t believe his choices of top three people of influence ... that answer just set the stage for the remaining answers to come.

Praise God!

So true - I used to tell friends that getting out of the Mormon church is like trying to get out of the mafia. Especially if you have LDS relatives who adhere to the blood atonement rituals of the LDS church. A friend of mine, back in the day when I worked for Exxon had kept hidden in his home a former Mormon who was fearful for his life and who had other Mormon relatives killed for defying “the one true church” </sarc> - if you don’t lose your life you will surely lose familial relationships (as I did). The blood atonement concern is only valid if you were actually baptized in the Mormon church. If you were not, fear not, they’ll just get baptized for you after you die in one of their baptism of the dead rituals. I cling to that verse where Jesus says that “anyone who believes in Me is your mother, father, sister, brother ...” and he also says that his word divides families. I gladly pick him over those clinging to false doctrine, no matter what the cost.

Wow! You’re right. That is “eerily familiar.” Looks like a modern day comic strip of the events unfolding in Georgia. Thanks for sharing. Very interesting.

Thank you for posting - that was fascinating! Hmmmm, doesn't the part that reads "They want a change of government because they hope they will be better off under a communist government. Actually they would be much worse off; but they do not know this, and their feeling is, "What have I got to lose?" sound like the very familiar platform of life under the rule of Obama Nation?

In contrast, the Wiki definition you posted almost makes communism sound good. Not a single hint of negativity in its description...

Thanks again! Good stuff.

Two years is not nearly long enough . . .

Yuk ...

Can’t wait to read it - post away!

I see that your comprehension problem reaches beyond your attemps to read the Bible and on to those who try to help you decipher truth.

I don’t expect you to read that accurately and at this point further communication with you would simply be “casting pearls before swine.”

It’s time for me to “dust my feet” of the dirt gathered trying to communicate with you.

Your comments = italics, my responses = plain text ...

Was Mary barren? I don't think so.

Not sure how you arrived at that out of that verse.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

Was Christ ugly? All the references I have seen indicate that he was comely, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." That doesn't sound stricken by God to me.

His appeal and power were not based on the way he looked but on who he is. By definition, glory and beauty are not the same thing.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

When was Christ crushed? He wasn't. Am I healed by his wounds? I don't think so.

He was crushed in spirit (not physically) before the crucifixion (Luke 22:44 - And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.)

And who can speak of his descendants?

Christ had descendants? Are they Gods too? Are you a Dan Brown follower?

Believers, that's me and all other Christians, are heirs and descendants of Christ (see the promises to Christians in the New Testament).

He was assigned a grave with the wicked

Was Christ buried in a grave of the wicked? I think not.

Christ was on one cross among three crosses - the other two men being crucified were thieves (wicked) whereas Christ was unblemished (holy).

though he had done no violence

Christ didn't whip and drive out the money changers?

He did - that was righteous violence - Christ's violence was not out of hatred but out of love and defense for the Father.

he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

My, my, my I don't even know what to say. That obviously didn't happen. I almost feel sorry for your feeble attempt at trying to show a true prophecy.

There's nothing feeble about the Word of God. No pity is required for me. I'm an heir of the King. :)

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

Obviously this isn't a reference to Christ, unless God is schizophrenic.

Every bit of it came to be.

I just pointed out that the bulk of the prophecy never happened or wasn't true. Did you even read the prophecy before you offered it up? I especially liked the part about Christ having kids and an extended life.

None of the prophecy is wrong and it was fulfilled in the New Testament (read the crucifixion account in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John).

I am a seeker of truth. In general I am trying to understand why people like you believe the way you do. I find it fascinating that people believe an illusion, despite seeming to see the reality at the same time. In other words, I find how you deal with cognitive dissonance fascinating.

For me it's not an illusion. It's reality. Otherwise, why bother? I have an extremely full and busy life. Affiliating myself with a God who doesn't exist would be a waste of my time. He's real and the relationship I have with him is real. Even though he can not be seen, he is fully responsive, fully acts on my best interests (even if they don't always feel like it) all while managing the universe the way he chooses. He's not a puppet master. He's a sovereign God and Father.

: ) And that is what I find fascinating, your faith trumps everything.

True, it does.

I find trying to understand that kind of thinking, fascinating : ) I think it is tied directly to the belief in prophecy, which in turn is all about control of the future.

Only God is in control of the future. Believers are the sheep that hear and follow his voice and follow him, the great Shepherd (see Psalm 23). I personally focus little on prophecy and focus more on Him. He's the one who has it all mapped out so I really don't need to worry about it because I take Him at His Word.

More later - con calls from 2-3 and 4-5 CST :)

I was truly shocked when I discovered that there are no accurate prophecies in the Bible.

Check out Isaiah 53 - This is an Old Testament prophecy that foretold the coming of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) before he was even born - his purpose, the method of his death, the rejection by his own people, etc. Every bit of it came to be.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=isaiah+53&section=0&version=niv&language=en

Here it is in print:

1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

In a post last week you told me you are an atheist - I find it interesting that you spend your time on FR in the Religion section? Do you see yourself as an antagonist, or someone who is seeking and would like to be proven wrong, or none of the above? Just curious ...

Have you read the book by Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict? He's a former atheist who read the Bible set out to disprove Christianity and could not do so. You might enjoy reading it.

I actually applied the Scientific Method to the Bible when I read it and there's a song that captures my results perfectly - "Evidence" by 4Him with lyrics that say, "I can't get past the evidence - of you" - "you" referring to God himself.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. It's awesome to have an absolute like Christ to stand upon. He's a foundation that can not be shaken even when our own world's quake with circumstances. Consider the temporal versus the eternal and that helps to put things in perspective.

ps - just did a word search on "eternal" in the Bible and there are some powerful verses for you to consider

check them out at this link http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?section=0&showtools=0&version=niv&word=eternal&st=1&sd=0&new=1

I can see that you are a thinker and that's a good thing. When you say "I have sought and not found" what specifically did you seek? Did you seek God himself, the person of God? That's what I was referring to. I can definitely tell you from my own journey that it is impossible to love someone you don't actually know. When I started reading scripture I did not know God personally. But it was through reading the Bible that I learned supernaturally who God is. Then I fell in love with him. I fell enough in love with him that I could accept the cost that came with following him, and there are many. Contrary to what some may think, Christianity isn't about butterflies and cherubs and fantasy.

There's no questioning you when you say that we are all called to take responsibility for our lives and to see things as they really are. "Truth" is the most important attribute of Christianity for me and I had a previous history of immersion into several different religions, including Mormonism, because of the diversity that is my family. That's why at some point I finally had to ask God himself, if he even existed. And when I sincerely and humbly asked, he answered. I'm not sure I really wanted to know before then but I like absolutes and wanted the certainty of knowing that what I said I believed I actually did believe. I didn't want to falsely defend a religion that I was wishy washy about.

As far as hell - it's not the party you think it's going to be. Hell is eternal separation from God and a pit of flames doesn't sound like much fun to me. Heaven is described much differently.

Would you consider reading the book of John in the Bible with a truly open mind? Or just pray and see where God leads you. He knows your heart as it is today and he's perfectly fine with you admitting your unbelief to him. Maybe you'd consider asking him to prove you wrong and then seeing what happens... I pray you'll think about joining us at the real party! :) (now there's a reason for a smiley!)

I am an Atheist. I just like to poke fun at the Anti Mormon Cabal members around here : ) You and I agree on 99% of the Gods (or lack thereof).

Interesting on the atheism. I appreciate your lightheartedness (the ongoing smiley faces) but when it's something as serious as ones eternal destination I am more serious on the matter. To answer your question, yes, I believe the Bible 100% and I believe in the virgin birth of Christ. I wondered about God's existence at one time and had doubts so I finally decided to ask Him. If you seek him you will find him. What if in the end, you are wrong? What's the payoff? Have you read the Bible with a mustard seed of faith? If you open your heart and mind to it you might be amazed at what the God of the universe decides to show you. It's pretty awesome. Enjoy.