Posted on 08/16/2008 5:08:41 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
I rarely post in this Religion forum but because Rick Warren is hosting the Presidential forum with Barack Obama and John McCain, I was interested in finding out more about Warren. I am interested in your opinions, based on both these videos and what you already know, about Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church.
You can see some of his videos HERE.
To paraphrase Warren in the Tells us how to get to Heaven” video: “You say I gave as much to Jesus Christ as I could at that moment and you keep growing in it.”
This is a short segment and may be a distortion. I don’t know. But he’s wrong on the surface. You get to Heaven by accepting Christ as your Savior. It’s your acceptance and belief in Christ that earns you Heaven; not the “Good Works” that he’s speaking of. He’s way off on that. The good works come naturally because of that belief. It’s God working in you. The works are an extension of your faith. But it’s the faith that gains salvation.
Warren appears to be a typical “Big Tent” so-called “Evangelical” Christian (and I use the term “Christian” loosely). It’s all building people up about themselves. Making them feel good. It’s love and hope and joy. Sure, that’s part of God’s message. But the other side of the coin is the sin that we live in. We’re all sinners and will die sinners without God’s grace. That grace only comes through acceptance of Christ as our Savior. Good works will never earn salvation. Salvation CAN’T be earned.
These videos are right on the mark.
Warren rejects the historic Protestant position that Christ is our righteousness and faith is the instrument by which we receive His righteousness.
Rick was my pastor for many years and is the person who opened my eyes to Christ.
There are those who love him and those who hate him. Those who hate the loudest obviously know very little about the man.
Warren is more about pleasing seekers and satisfying man than he is about seeking Jesus. He has caused a lot of problems in other churches in his quest to make everyone “purpose driven”.
One must only ponder a simple thing to realize what Rick Warren is all about. He has stated he will not talk to either candidate about abortion or gay marriage. What does that tell you? A man of God should be very interested in knowing a potential president’s view on these current controversies. Now, just add 2+2 and get your answer.
But it's not supposed to be about the man. It's about Christ. If the man makes himself into something of a love/hate type individual, then he's preempting the issue. Christ our Savior. "No one come to the Father but by me". And it's not what we do that wins Christ's acceptance. That diminishes Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. It's through His grace we are saved. Our faith alone saves us.
Very true.
I have no problem with anyone who disagrees with him on doctrine. I do have a problem with those who don’t even know him but launch vicious attack after vicious attack against his personal character.
There’s nothing wrong with bringing those who’ve lived the gay lifestyle into your church. Only it can’t be done on their terms. They live a life apart from God. It’s an abomination to God. They’re welcome as we all are. But just as we must, they must shed off this life of sin and be born again. That’s what the term means. We’re welcome; our sins aren’t. Any church that teaches “tolerance” and “inclusiveness” is in itself “apart from God”.
It’s all there in the Bible.
I know nothing of his character. I do know that as far as Christian Doctrine is concerned, he’s not there. I’ve seen enough to be sure of that.
What bothers me, though, is that people like him, Joel Olsteen and others (I’ll include mainstream organizations like the ELCA in this), their teachings of love and happiness and inclusion without the fear of God is misleading millions of people into an unhealthy situation. It’s not the Christianity of the Bible. And that means these so-called “preachers” are deceiving millions in the belief that they are saved when they don’t know what salvation really is.
For that, I do have a problem with the Warrens, the Olsteens, the ELCA’s, of this World.
I do have concerns with Rick Warren’s brand of “Christianity.” I would indeed get to the heart of whether he sticks to the Bible for doctrine, or if he’s working hard to water it down to nothing for the sake of popularity. I can’t say I’ve researched his views, but there’s enough there to cause me grave concern.
Or why they need it
Christianity is a personal religion. By that I mean it centers around your own relationship with Christ. Sure, we go to church and enjoy fellowship with other believers. But its our one-on-one with God that’s important.
What anyone needs to know about salvation, grace, Christ’s atonement, the Law and the Gospel, is all in the Bible. There’s nothing hidden.
But there are those out there who profess to be Christians, who profess to give the Word of God, yet themselves are apart from God because their testimony is false. Beware of false prophets is a very real concern. The one true test: If it doesn’t pass what’s in the Bible, it isn’t going to save us.
What little I know of Warren, I have my doubts.
Rick Warren propounds a theology that is an inch deep and a mile wide...meaning, it has no substance. He is a popularizer...using the lowest common denominator theologically. You ought to talk to people who have been driven away from churches that have adopted Warren’s methodology...it isn’t pretty, at all!
Amen, Sandy.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Prov 25:2
Do you suppose that God has hidden some of these things in scripture?
I don’t believe anything about salvation and coming to Christ is hidden. That was my topic. What is to come, God’s glory and magnificence, His way of working with us, many things may be hidden. But the way to salvation has been revealed to all.
Matt 13:10-15 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.Understanding Revelation is not automatic.
Seven
Nor have I said it is. Merely that God has revealed Himself to us. Not all will listen or hear.
Rick Warren is a Traitor by the Constitution by having visited Syria and Assad, thus having provided “aid and comfort” even now to these killers of American Forces in Iraq.
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