Posted on 10/05/2009 11:22:44 AM PDT by Gamecock
An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake. The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ. "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday. A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Fascinating. Thanks very much.
I always figured Thomas for an engineer at heart.
Yes, for example: it's obvious that trees cause wind. You never see the wind blowing unless the trees are moving. QED!
Do I really need a little </s>?
Certainly that's true, and I'm not contesting that point at all. I simply alluded to the fact that for St. Thomas, the fact of the resurrection was not proof enough, and in a sense, the word (as related by his fellow apostles) was not adequate. Rather than condemn him, or cast him away as a "non-believer", Christ offered him additional proof, allowing him to physically probe the actual wounds.
You say that it is, "More likely the Devil is using it to mislead people."
That may also be true, but you failed to deal with my hypothetical query, what if it is real? I say it is more likely that there are many in this world who have the doubts of Thomas, in spite of having had the truth related directly to them through the Word. It would be consistent with Christ's Biblical precedent to provide them with the additionial proof needed to bolster their faith, rather than to cast them away or let them wither on the vine.
Is my faith contingent on the validity of the shroud? Absolutely not.
Do I believe the shroud to be the actual burial cloth of Christ? I can't and won't argue the point definitively. I do find it intriguing, knowing full well that if it is genuine, it will never be proven or established to the satisfaction of unbelievers. If it can be irrefutably demonstrated to be a fraud, it will still stand as a testament to the creativity and genius with which God has imbued mankind. Even if the artist's pure intent was to defraud, the shroud would still stand as a singularly incredible devotional objet d'art on the scale of the Sistine or Pazzi Chapels, Chartres Cathedral, or Bernini's David.
“The carbon date shows this is from late 1200s.
It’s been pretty well debunked as legit.”
The threads that were carbon dated were proved to be repairs made in that time period. There were no pigments found except for the dyes of the “newer” threads made during the middle ages. This Italian so called scientist is a fraud and will be shown so. The Shroud cannot be duplicated to date, and even if it is at some point in the future will not prove that the Shroud is fake most likely. I can make a cake from a recipe, doesn’t mean that the original cake is not a cake does it? Even if I use a microwave rather than a oven.
“What gives you the impression that my evaluation of the evidence is not “exceedingly careful”?”
Nothing, and while English is not my first language, I don’t think I said it wasn’t.
I have no opinion or care about this cloth, just a general observation regarding the fraud that surround many of such objects.
Most of our Lord's miracles were performed to make people believe. There's no reason to think that the Shroud of Turin would be any different.
What the doubters need to answer is, if medieval artists had the ability to produce photo-quality images on pieces of cloth there should be other examples of it.
I really don’t know the ins and outs of being a Torah scribe. It’s very specialized.
I worked very hard and wrote a Shema (under direct instruction) for my front door. That’s about as far as I’ve gotten.
It's amazing to me to watch how many people use their God-given free will to deny the existence of their God-given free will.
Of course, they're slaves to the kind of warped ideology that claims God sent Hitler to conduct the Holocaust and Stalin to conduct the Holodomor, among their other crimes.
Sola Machen.
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If writing that constitutes hard work ... requiring supervision ...
Writing out the whole Torah is truly an enormous effort.
If you don't mind a bit of curiosity: How long did it take? What technique (paint/carving/other)?
And since yesterday you falsely accused me of being a liar by attributing to me the words of someone else and have since refused to apologize for this misattribution, by your own standard, does that not make you a "real coward?"
Thank God you're not describing the Catholic Church.
I would suspect that in its documented history, the shroud has probably kindled or reinforced the faith of far more than it has led astray.
I agree. For a thousand years the Church has been very cautious regarding the Shroud.
It’s a caligraphy-type pen on either parchment or various other items. Observant Jewish people put them in the mezuzah you see on door posts/archways, per G-d’s instructions.
It was hard, each letter has to be perfect.
As an aside, Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s first act as a Supreme Court Justice was to put up a Mezuzah case on her office doorway. Interestingly, it is apparently empty of the scroll.
Being lazy, I bought the rest for $40.each.
The parchment in a case makes a lot more sense.
I apologize. I really do not understand English prepositional phrases, and I put them in the wrong place.
If somebody claimed to have found a toga that Julius Ceasar wore, would you doubt it?
_____
I would, wouldn’t you?
Would you not want significant evidence to demonstrate that it was in fact worn by Julius Caesar? I would.
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