Posted on 07/04/2002 5:27:12 PM PDT by blam
Sunday, 30 June, 2002, 15:31 GMT 16:31 UK
English and Welsh are races apart
Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons.
The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.
Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.
And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh.
Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical.
But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of Welsh people studied.
The research team studied the Y-chromosome, which is passed almost unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers.
Ethnic links: Many races share common bonds
They chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area.
They then compared this with samples from Norway and with Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands.
The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different.
The researchers concluded the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which devastated the Celtic population of England, but did not reach Wales.
Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said their findings suggested that a migration occurred within the last 2,500 years.
Genetic links
It reinforced the idea that the Welsh were the true indigenous Britons.
In April last year, research for a BBC programme on the Vikings revealed strong genetic links between the Welsh and Irish Celts and the Basques of northern Spain and south France.
It suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.
The UCL research into the more recent Anglo-Saxon period suggested a migration on a huge scale.
"It appears England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the continent after the Romans left," he said.
Celtic Britons
Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain.
Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite.
But the latest research by the UCL team, "using genetics as a history book", appears to support the original view of a large-scale invasion of England.
It suggests that the Welsh border was more of a genetic barrier to the Anglo-Saxon Y chromosome gene flow than the North Sea.
Dr Thomas added: "Our findings completely overturn the modern view of the origins of the English."
If you don't have 3 minutes to read, you don't have 3 minutes to write. Some people talk all the time but never listen. They think a monologue is a dialogue. Lots of fun to be with.
Haha, good one. But seriously Spanish and Pourtgese are both Romance languages which relates directly in the Indo-European language family. But the Basque region is between France and the Iberia, so it is really weird that they do not speak an European language. Perhaps the Basques are aliens.
Absolutely. Thor is a modern day adventurer and hero. Anyone who points out that the King has no Clothes has detractors, especially the King!
Now when someone comes up with an HONEST and MEANINGFUL genetic test it might answer at least a few things. Meanwhile, don't take any .....
The linguistic evidence suggests that they are early Europeans but, the DNA evidence suggests otherwise. Maybe they were/are an early exiled group of Celts?
Just agreeing with you. Until genetic testing becomes reliable, or its sponsors become trustworthy, don't take any wooden nickels, or whatever...
Good Morning Blam. Wish I had the great article I read several months ago by a prominent archeologist/linguist who made the point that relying on language patterns to come to conclusions about peoples is very perilous. He said that as a backup or confirming factor it is OK, but otherwise it is most unreliable. I note with interest how many posts on this thread are relying on language rather than archeology.
Go here for more than you wanted to know. (lol)
I agree. But, I am left to speculate with whatever information is available.
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