Posted on 07/04/2002 5:27:12 PM PDT by blam
Sunday, 30 June, 2002, 15:31 GMT 16:31 UK
English and Welsh are races apart
Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons.
The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.
Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.
And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh.
Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical.
But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of Welsh people studied.
The research team studied the Y-chromosome, which is passed almost unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers.
Ethnic links: Many races share common bonds
They chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area.
They then compared this with samples from Norway and with Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands.
The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different.
The researchers concluded the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which devastated the Celtic population of England, but did not reach Wales.
Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said their findings suggested that a migration occurred within the last 2,500 years.
Genetic links
It reinforced the idea that the Welsh were the true indigenous Britons.
In April last year, research for a BBC programme on the Vikings revealed strong genetic links between the Welsh and Irish Celts and the Basques of northern Spain and south France.
It suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.
The UCL research into the more recent Anglo-Saxon period suggested a migration on a huge scale.
"It appears England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the continent after the Romans left," he said.
Celtic Britons
Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain.
Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite.
But the latest research by the UCL team, "using genetics as a history book", appears to support the original view of a large-scale invasion of England.
It suggests that the Welsh border was more of a genetic barrier to the Anglo-Saxon Y chromosome gene flow than the North Sea.
Dr Thomas added: "Our findings completely overturn the modern view of the origins of the English."
Anything else?
The really big salt mine was at Hallstadt, not far away, a fascinating place to visit. Aside from some dating problems, this is a decent brief article on Hallstadt. Click on my FR LostTRibe Profile below for more...
In fact, there are those who claim that the German tribes and peoples were all servants to the Gaelic speaking people wherever they might be found - rather like the old south where slaves were black and owners were white.
There was a massive German slave revolt against the Celtic owners. The Greeks reported on this although we have few details. The Celts had to relocate from areas North of the Danube to areas South of the Danube. These are the folks who moved into Italy and Switzerland. Julius Caeser in later centuries relocated some of them to what is now Belgium (Wallonia).
In a far earlier time the Celts were driven from Western Anatolia and from Bulgaria by Greek Barbarians (See: Homer). The seagoing Celts simply sailed South to the Mediterranean and set up colonies throughout the Mediterranean and up the Spanish coast.
It's a pretty cut and dried history once you understand that we are dealing with remnant refugee populations moving from one area to another, and eventually as far West as they could go.
Hey, that's us! 90% of all identifiable Celtic people live in the Americas or Australia these days.
If you have been following the "genetics studies" here on FR for the last year or two you know how unreliable they have proven to be. In fact, the only consistancy seems to be that the results of the genetics studies turn out to be whatever those doing the financing want them to be. It is truly scandalous, and while a great idea, is nothing we can hang our hat on at this time. Certainly nothing to use for rewriting history.
They used everybody they could as slaves, particularly their women, and their fellow Vikings. The most common man's name among the Vikings was "Carl", which means "servant" or "slave".
You read enough about Viking culture and you get the idea that those old boys thought women were a different species useful only for incubating humanculae provided soley by the males!
Thanks. I have some Hibiscus too. (blue/pink)
Actually, they were all CELTS. The Germani were merely another Celtic tribe, from which the name "Germany" is derived. They, among other Celtic Tribes gave the Roman Empire fits. However, todays Germans are more Slavic then Celtic.
>Hey, that's us! 90% of all identifiable Celtic people live in the Americas or Australia these days.
Well that's close! Make that ...live in Europe or North America and you've got it. The other 10% are in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc..............
Sure, it's a funny thought, in terms of todays historical context. But has nothing to do with their very common Celtic heritage. Please click on my Profile and take 3 minutes to read the 3-MINUTE HISTORY to see how this all fits together.
William abolished the death penalty in England in 1088.
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