Posted on 02/05/2009 7:52:01 PM PST by MindBender26
Obama Born In The U.S. ? New Facts Say; “Probably Not!”
Let me be the first to admit that I have been a constant debunker of the “Obama Born Overseas” stories. How could it be possible? How could the DNC, Hillary, Edwards, the RNC, McCain, Romney, AP, BBC, ABC, FNC, etc, (and every 100th listing in the DC phone book) not have checked this out to its last level of possibility?
Well, it appears that they didn’t! Everyone assumed “the other guy did it.”
Forget for the moment all the clues left by the high-priced Obama and DNC legal teams. They are huge.
Obama and the DNC always argue “standing.” They could eliminate every legal challenge in 5 minutes by simply producing a certified copy of the original long-form birth certificate. Throw in the testimony of the Hawaii Registrar of Documents, a few retired FBI chief document examiners, and the doctor who delivered him for good measure.
If they did that in two or three courts of record, in light of the obvious media coverage it would receive, every other court nationwide would accept the precedence and the cases would all be over.
But they don’t. They keep telling the courts, “please don’t hear this case.” No proof of any kind. Just the legalese argument that the plaintiffs have no standing before that court.
That’s so overreaching, it’s like buying a refinery to get a 3000 mile oil change! And one day, some court is going to say…. “Show me the money, er,. ah, I mean, Show me the documents!”
But there is a second, and perhaps new point!
Where is that doctor who delivered him, or the midwife?
Stop and think. The delivery of a half Negro – half Caucasian baby was rare anyhere in 1961. Oriental babies were common in Hawaii of course, but a half Negro-half Caucasian baby with the funny name of Barrack Obama, in Hawaii? In 1961?
Even of you were a Republican, if you delivered a future President of the United States, wouldn’t you call some newspaper somewhere with your story. Or if you were the assistant obstetrician, or the anesthesiologist, or the scrub nurse?
What about the circulating nurse, or the pediatrician, one of a dozen nurses on the 24 hour-a-day shifts in the nursery, one of many nurses on the ward where Mrs. Obama would have stayed for three days, a records registrar, a technician of any kind, hell, even the janitor!
What about the clerks, ambulance drivers….. somebody ?!?!?!
Anybody ?!?!?!
Wouldn’t someone have been yelling their “credit” for this from the rooftops???? The date when he was born is (supposedly) known. Certainly all these (supposed) people would know where they were working then!
Where is somebody, anybody, who was there or even remembers the birth?
Sherlock Holmes once solved a case by noticing the dog that DID NOT bark.
Is this the same situation?
I disagree with you. I think you are wrong, dangerously wrong.
But I do appreciate your forthrightness, and your articulate posts in defense of your position.
Welcome to FR.
No. Someone else posted a link to Wikipedia, which has the one I saw.
I see that there's reason to suspect that it may not be authentic, from posts you wrote, but I don't really think it's relevant to this discussion.
There's no reason to believe either McCain or Obama are ineligible.
Beacuse as a social scientist, I have a basic understanding of how datasets are compiled.
Hospitals are not in the business of maintaining datasets for researchers. It is an expensive activity that takes lots of space and computing power, and it's not part of the hospital's core competency..
When they no longer have to keep records, they sell them to a data vendor after redacting identifying information. The data vendor takes them off their hands and the paper copies are shredded. The hospital is happy to get rid of the records because they have limited storage space and manpower.
Listen, I'll make you a deal. Call the records department of the Kanopali medical center and ask them if they have birth records going back to 1961 and get back to me.
If -- and it's a big "if" since there's no viable evidence to disprove a Hawaiian birth -- there was a birth place other than Hawaii, I think the motivation would have been, for someone of Madelyn Dunham's background, to establish both legitimacy and paternity of the child. Both of those would have been important issues in that era, when out-of-wedlock biracial children of unknown paternity would certainly raise eyebrows in her extended family, at least.
Remember, also, there is no marriage certificate on file for Ann Dunham and Barack Obama in Hawaii.
Only Naturalized citizenship.
The power is, with most of Congress' powers, in Article I, Section 8.
The Congress shall have the power
...
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,
Now show me where they have the power to "decide how citizenship is conferred" other than in the case of naturalization. If one is naturalized, even at birth, one is not a Natural Born Citizen.
I guess that's possible if the baby were born as "Barack Obama." If he were born as "Barry Dunham" or "Stanley Payne" it would be a different story. Just the fact that a baby was half-Black and half-White wouldn't make him memorable.
But the logic applies the other way as well. A honeymoon in Kenya would have been the trip of a lifetime. It would have been talked about even if it turned out badly. Something would have leaked out. If it happened how come no one who knew the Obamas or Dunhams remember it?
"Birther" is a label which even some birthers have used.
"Again you are not being honest."
You will not be able to find a single instance of me being dishonest. That you disagree with me, or that you interpret something differently, is not me being dishonest.
"You called Polarik a fraud by implication whether you admit to it or not. The fact is there for all to see."
No I did not. And this has already been detailed. The "fact" is not there for all to see because it didn't happen.
What we are seeing here again is that some people cannot distinguish between honest disagreement and dishonesty. I said Polarik's work was amateurish. I said it was nonsense. I've said it wouldn't be taken seriously be a real expert, and other such comments. None of that equates to "fraud", which means a conscious effort to deceive. As far as I know, Polarik fully believes in his own work.
Yes I did. Where it also applied to the discussion.
Try addressing the meaning instead of where I chose to post it.
Ark didn't punt on the question. Only that one passage punted. I've already posted other quotes that directly address it, yet you ignore them.
Good God!
It's pretty evident there is significant interest from the public and the press in seeing his birth certificate, and you are postulating about the nature of the request made to see it and the effect that would have on 0bama's response?
You are ridiculous, and so is 0bama if he only responds to questions if they are asked in a certain way - though you may actually be correct there, he is very thin skinned and clearly temperamental.
I have no idea who may, or may not, have asked nicely, asked rudely, or asked pretty please. But I am absolutely certain there are hundreds of thousands who want to see it, and that campaign knew that, as does the administration now.
If they are not aware, then they are obviously incompetent and unfit to lead.
Besides, we know that when you ask 0bama a straight question, nicely - he LIES.
He was asked about his relationship with William Ayers and claimed he was "just a guy that lives in my neighborhood" when in fact we know he had been associated with him since his days at Columbia in 1982 when Ayers was also at school in New York at Bank Street College, less than a quarter of a mile away from Columbia. We know they had mutual friends, such as Edward Said, Marxist professor and PLO spokesman, teacher of 0bama's English class, and friend of William Ayers. We know all about his patronage to get into Harvard courtesy of Ayers' father. We know all about how he met his wife while working a summer job for a firm that had Ayers' father as a major client. We know where they shared office locations together and the boards they sat on together -their lives have been inextricably intertwined for twenty seven years - but 0bama lies about it and conceals any documents he can to cover it up.
So when you come to this forum and suggest we just didn't ask the right people in the right way we know you are a joke, and clearly apart of the 0bama dis-information organization.
Hey, Michael Michael, you are not Mike Klonsky, long time Maoist Communist friend of both Ayers and 0bama, are you?
Call the records department of the Kanopali medical center and ask them if they have birth records going back to 1961 and get back to me
Would they possibly have kept a microfiche copy?
Your absurd idea that a child born to illegals can be “under the jurisdiction.”
Its totally outside of law and culture here. Its just parroting the lies of the Marxist media.
Can you name anyone who had ever actually contacted someone of authority in his campaign and asked if he would release it?
Since you ask...
Jim Geraghty of National Review has said reporters have indeed asked Obama.
“Reporters have asked for it and been denied, and the state of Hawaii does not make such records public.”
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTgxZmIwNTg0OWVhMWJkODNmZjI4ZjY4Mjg2OWRmNzI=
You may want to read up on Plyler v. Doe, where the SCOTUS ruled that the children of illegal aliens and even illegal aliens are protected by the Constitution.
It only seems that way to you because you define someone who disagrees with you in that way. Which makes no sense.
I usually avoid these questions about my self because I am not the issue here. The facts are the issue. But since you are so interested...
I've been here for 12 years. My politics are mostly "libertarian", in that I believe in personal freedom, even freedom to do things that I would not do myself. I believe in severely limited government. I believe in free markets and am opposed to socialism in all its forms.
I am a rationalist skeptic that does not believe in UFO's or tooth fairies unless someone produces the evidence for them. It is this trait that mostly accounts for my presence on these birther threads, and many of the other threads I post on.
I do not entirely accept the "Libertarian" point of view on everything and on some issues I am more "Republican". I believe the US should not needlesly entangle in foreign disputes, but that we should vigorously defend our legitimate interests. I believe we should have the strongest possible military. In decades of voting I have never voted for a Democrat, and have voted for the Republican or the Libertarian depending on circumstances. The only photograph I have in my office is of Ronald Reagan, the man to me that personally embodies the concept of "President".
If all the above makes me an extreme liberal, then I have a lot of friends at FreeRepublic.
Now how about addressing the issues instead of irrelevencies like whether a poster is a proper conservative?
Obviously you are part of O’bummer’s smoke screen.
You spew nothing but nonsense and far left talking points.
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