Posted on 02/05/2009 7:52:01 PM PST by MindBender26
Obama Born In The U.S. ? New Facts Say; “Probably Not!”
Let me be the first to admit that I have been a constant debunker of the “Obama Born Overseas” stories. How could it be possible? How could the DNC, Hillary, Edwards, the RNC, McCain, Romney, AP, BBC, ABC, FNC, etc, (and every 100th listing in the DC phone book) not have checked this out to its last level of possibility?
Well, it appears that they didn’t! Everyone assumed “the other guy did it.”
Forget for the moment all the clues left by the high-priced Obama and DNC legal teams. They are huge.
Obama and the DNC always argue “standing.” They could eliminate every legal challenge in 5 minutes by simply producing a certified copy of the original long-form birth certificate. Throw in the testimony of the Hawaii Registrar of Documents, a few retired FBI chief document examiners, and the doctor who delivered him for good measure.
If they did that in two or three courts of record, in light of the obvious media coverage it would receive, every other court nationwide would accept the precedence and the cases would all be over.
But they don’t. They keep telling the courts, “please don’t hear this case.” No proof of any kind. Just the legalese argument that the plaintiffs have no standing before that court.
That’s so overreaching, it’s like buying a refinery to get a 3000 mile oil change! And one day, some court is going to say…. “Show me the money, er,. ah, I mean, Show me the documents!”
But there is a second, and perhaps new point!
Where is that doctor who delivered him, or the midwife?
Stop and think. The delivery of a half Negro – half Caucasian baby was rare anyhere in 1961. Oriental babies were common in Hawaii of course, but a half Negro-half Caucasian baby with the funny name of Barrack Obama, in Hawaii? In 1961?
Even of you were a Republican, if you delivered a future President of the United States, wouldn’t you call some newspaper somewhere with your story. Or if you were the assistant obstetrician, or the anesthesiologist, or the scrub nurse?
What about the circulating nurse, or the pediatrician, one of a dozen nurses on the 24 hour-a-day shifts in the nursery, one of many nurses on the ward where Mrs. Obama would have stayed for three days, a records registrar, a technician of any kind, hell, even the janitor!
What about the clerks, ambulance drivers….. somebody ?!?!?!
Anybody ?!?!?!
Wouldn’t someone have been yelling their “credit” for this from the rooftops???? The date when he was born is (supposedly) known. Certainly all these (supposed) people would know where they were working then!
Where is somebody, anybody, who was there or even remembers the birth?
Sherlock Holmes once solved a case by noticing the dog that DID NOT bark.
Is this the same situation?
Of course, Larry Sinclair contends that there is a famous fairy in Washington DC who has two young daughters, apparently born the usual way.
Utterly false.
Calling someone a troll doesn't disprove what they are saying. But some of the regulars on the birther threads can only reach that level of argument.
"Birther" is an attack on those who favor the birth certificate issue.
Again you are not being honest.
You called Polarik a fraud by implication whether you admit to it or not. The fact is there for all to see.
Neither should you be called a troll IMO! Though it is a certainty that you are extremely dogged and almost obsessed by this issue. Repeating the same argument and opinion over and over is troll-like behavior. Why not refer the poster to a link to thread so and so, # whatever rather than putting up essentially the same post?
Personally, I have found some items in a few of your posts thought-provoking.
Nope and Nope.
Welcome to FR...
I don't know anything about image analysis and defer to you and others on that subject. I do know something about this, and I can tell you that the chances of the doctor remembering this are very, very small.
Without subsequent interactions with the mother or baby, there is no way most doctors would recall such details about a particular delivery. As another physician posted earlier, he remembers memorable medical details from some deliveries, but not the patient. I delivered a limited number of babies, and remember no details about the mothers or babies aside from medical issues. (Like the 17yr old who said she had wasn't pregnant, appeared very fat, had abdominal pain and then delivered in the ER).
Your list of points doesn't work for the medical situtation-
#1 only works if the medical people involved in the delivery actually knew Madelyn Dunham. In a city the size of Honolulu, that's a small chance.
#2 This assumes that those delivering the baby knew the father was black (was he in the delivery room? That was not very common then) or could tell the baby was black, as opposed to some other mixed race child. I can tell you that I don't recall the racial make up of children I delivered, and with one exception, I don't recall the race of the mothers, either. The exception was someone who was supposed to be royalty in her native country, and what I remember was the listing: "princess of"...
#3Not necessarily, they would have to have the memory in the first place to be jolted. And medical people are now painfully aware of HIPAA and the cost of violations, so even if they remembered, they'd have good reason not to make it public.
#4 This definitely wouldn't work, and I'm a bit surprised you added it. The events are 6 months apart, which is huge in terms of associating the two events, and they are unrelated events which makes it even more tenuous. If it was the same day, maybe. At a conservative guess, an OBGYN, would have 50-100 deliveries in those six months.
On the contrary, it doesn't take long to learn that debating your type is an exercise in futility
IOW, you're not worth the time. Oh, and running to the Admin is not only weak, it's a tip off.
Good day
I think that, although I don’t discount the possibility of any of them being planted trolls, some may enjoy treating FR like a debating society, i.e. they take a difficult stance on a topic and try to flesh it out with bovine scatology, just to see how far they can go with it, and get their jollies that way.
Congratulations! What a great experience to treasure.
You just posted this in #676, Exhibit A.
If you walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, folks will treat you as a duck.
Not quite. If the dog already knew he wasn't born there then that would not be something unfamiliar to bark at. (To use a preposition to end a sentence with)
Welcome to FR, BTW.
Let them keep repeating themselves, it’s their style.
Ark was an example of the court PUNTING on NBC...they said what was DEFINITELY a NBC and what was “in doubt” a NBC...Obama falls under the latter category. The matter cries out for a SCOTUS determination of what is a NBC but they don’t have the CAGLIONI(capiscono, Sri Scalia ed Alito?) to do anything about it!
Chief:”I had read on numerous forums about the loose laws regarding Hawaiian birth certificates.”
Chief, your comment is in my opinion a critical part of this discussion. Hawaii has made public statements that they have Obama’s vault copy of his orignal BC. mlo has on occasion stated that this is proof he was born in Hawaii because why would Hawaii have an orignal BC of someone born outside the US. I think mlo has a point here and this fact leads me to some speculation.
If there is a Hawaiian long-form birth certificate in the “vault” under care of Hawaiian officials, how did it get there? And what were the requirements to issue such a document in Hawaii back in 1961? In our modern day expectations of these types of documents, we may not fully understand how casually these records may have been handled in some jurisdictions. For example, how would someone register a home birth in Hawaii where an official medical doctor was not present? (example: post #675) Would it just be a matter of filling out a form and getting it notarized? Would it even be necessary that BHO be there in the state to generate such a document? Obvously someone had enough initiative to put the birth announcement in the paper so it would seem that “creating” a birth certificate might not be that far-fetched.
The question then raised is what would be the grand-parents (or mother’s) motive for generating these sorts of documents in 1961 since their expectations of a future Obama presidency are doubtfully the motive. I think that even back in 1961 there were benefits of having birth or citizenship in Hawaii and the US. Perhaps even then they understood the hassles of getting citizenship for foreign-born babies.
Whether the baby was born in Kenya (doubtful), Canada (perhaps), or Washington State (possible), is there any motivation that you know for claiming Hawaii as the place of birth back in 1961?
The idea that minor children can be separated from their parents is a particularly ugly marxist concept, that is purposed to destroy the family unit.
This is an idea that is not supported in American law, nor culture. You and that idea do not belong here; we are conservative Christians.
Really? I haven't seen any stories or quotes from people who knew Madelyn Dunham in Hawaii in 1961. The closest, time-wise, are those from college grads in the mid or late '60's who went to work at Bank of Hawaii and were intimidated by her. The earliest mention I've seen of her and her grandchildren was by a bank employee who remembered Barry and his half-sister Maya stopping by the bank on the way home from Punahou School in the '70's.
Whites were already in the minority in Hawaii at the time, but blacks were nearly nonexistent, and a white woman and a black man in Hawaii having a baby in 1961 was totally out of the ordinary. It would be hard for the doctor and the nurses to forget that.
You really should read Frank Marshall Davis' (non-porno) autobiography, "Livin' the Blues." He waxed poetic about the lack of racial prejudice in Hawaii, and how mixed ancestry was a matter of pride on the islands -- with the exception of noticeable prejudice against haoles (whites), which really tickled his fancy. He was married to a white woman by the way, and had five bi-racial kids born in Hawaii before the Dunhams arrived.
Honestly the only motivation I can see was if Jr had been born out of the country and the registration of birth would have guaranteed him U.S. citizenship, if he was born in WA state there would be no needto falsely register his birth to give him U.S. citizenship. I never subscribed to the possibility of him being born in Kenya for a few factors such as time for travel, expense, and the required vaccinations including diptheria, yellow fever, T.B., meningitis, malaria and typhoid. No doctor would give such injections to a pregnant woman.
The ease of registering a birth in 1961 Hawaii simply relied on the word of an individual with knowledge of the event. Remember Hawaii was a new member to the U.S. and the higher their birth rate the more federal funding they would receive. Who would question the word of such a prized employee of Bankoh, who was essentially the mortgage department. I believe(although I have no proof) that Jr was the result of a one night stand and that her parents sent her away when they were told she was pregnant. It would be easier to send her away than to face the embarassment of their daughter being pregnant by a black man, especially with both of them having started new jobs less than a year earlier. I also don’t subscribe to the conspiracy of registering the birth with an eye to the future and the possibility of a run for the Presidency, I believe that the registration of birth was to “protect their daughter’s honor and give a legitimacy to the event.” When Ann finally came back to HI then her parents could say, “Isn’t it a shame that Ann’s marriage didn’t work out and she is left to raise the baby on her own?”
There was no need for Ann or Jr to be on the island after his birth to register the birth and at this point in time there is no evidence of their presence on the island. There was also no need for a document to be notarized stating the birth event just the statement of a person with knowledge of the event.
I'm sure you won't. I watched as google 'disapeared' half a million hits on 'obama birth certificate' back in mid July. Why do you suppose that was?
My memory is a little hazey, but I believe it was a photocopy of an official copy of his long form, dated some time from the 1980s.
A little hazy? How conveeeeeeeenient...
Not saying you are, but...
Aye-yup. He parses like a clinton...
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