Posted on 02/05/2009 7:52:01 PM PST by MindBender26
Obama Born In The U.S. ? New Facts Say; “Probably Not!”
Let me be the first to admit that I have been a constant debunker of the “Obama Born Overseas” stories. How could it be possible? How could the DNC, Hillary, Edwards, the RNC, McCain, Romney, AP, BBC, ABC, FNC, etc, (and every 100th listing in the DC phone book) not have checked this out to its last level of possibility?
Well, it appears that they didn’t! Everyone assumed “the other guy did it.”
Forget for the moment all the clues left by the high-priced Obama and DNC legal teams. They are huge.
Obama and the DNC always argue “standing.” They could eliminate every legal challenge in 5 minutes by simply producing a certified copy of the original long-form birth certificate. Throw in the testimony of the Hawaii Registrar of Documents, a few retired FBI chief document examiners, and the doctor who delivered him for good measure.
If they did that in two or three courts of record, in light of the obvious media coverage it would receive, every other court nationwide would accept the precedence and the cases would all be over.
But they don’t. They keep telling the courts, “please don’t hear this case.” No proof of any kind. Just the legalese argument that the plaintiffs have no standing before that court.
That’s so overreaching, it’s like buying a refinery to get a 3000 mile oil change! And one day, some court is going to say…. “Show me the money, er,. ah, I mean, Show me the documents!”
But there is a second, and perhaps new point!
Where is that doctor who delivered him, or the midwife?
Stop and think. The delivery of a half Negro – half Caucasian baby was rare anyhere in 1961. Oriental babies were common in Hawaii of course, but a half Negro-half Caucasian baby with the funny name of Barrack Obama, in Hawaii? In 1961?
Even of you were a Republican, if you delivered a future President of the United States, wouldn’t you call some newspaper somewhere with your story. Or if you were the assistant obstetrician, or the anesthesiologist, or the scrub nurse?
What about the circulating nurse, or the pediatrician, one of a dozen nurses on the 24 hour-a-day shifts in the nursery, one of many nurses on the ward where Mrs. Obama would have stayed for three days, a records registrar, a technician of any kind, hell, even the janitor!
What about the clerks, ambulance drivers….. somebody ?!?!?!
Anybody ?!?!?!
Wouldn’t someone have been yelling their “credit” for this from the rooftops???? The date when he was born is (supposedly) known. Certainly all these (supposed) people would know where they were working then!
Where is somebody, anybody, who was there or even remembers the birth?
Sherlock Holmes once solved a case by noticing the dog that DID NOT bark.
Is this the same situation?
Further question for you to track down: Was Obama properly vetted?
As for your post, go ask his cousin.
My my, you sure do defend the guy don’t you.
No he is not. Once they have been stripped of identifying information and sold, they are of no value to the hospital. There is no reason to keep them longer, as they take up valuable storage space.
This is very basic stuff.
I have no idea, I had read on numerous forums about the loose laws regarding Hawaiian birth certificates and this is the program under which a Chinese national applied for and received a Hawaiian birth certificate even though he had been born in China. This popped up in one of my searches and from what I understand the criteria for applying for the birth certificate were extremely loose often with the certficate given out on the word of those who knew the applicant.
Registering a birth in 1961 in Hawaii was also extremely relaxed and only the word of a reliable person was needed, unlike today when a signed document from either a midwife, or delivering doctor and including records for prenatal care and well baby records are required.
Forensic documents expert Sandra Ramsey Lines, who debunked the Rathergate papers, agrees with Polarik about the fraudulent nature of the Certification published on Factcheck and elsewhere. Read Polarik’s work and decide for yourself how “amateurish” you think it is.
That is simply not true.
None of us is required to use real names publicly here. To demand such of one person whether he is a researcher or not is attempted intimidation. I could say: what is your real name and can you prove it? And show us that you are an expert in document tampering and validate your posted evidence. The same requirements apply to you without the 160 page report since you have challenged his work.
Common courtesy demands that we back up any claim that someone is a fake or a liar. Otherwise the accuser shows seems merely mean-spirited to his/her readers.
Please tell us when and how you received access to the original sealed vital statistics records of Barack H. Obama II. Alternatively, please admit you are talking out of your ass. Thanks.
The following is an affadavit from Sandra Ramsey Lines, forensic document examiner, who worked on debunking the phony Dan Rather papers re. Bush’s National Guard record, checked out the Certification of Live Birth which the Obama campaign posted online and declares it a fake:
1. I am Sandra Ramsey Lines, With an address at... I am a former federal examiner and law enforcement officer. I began training as a forensic document examiner in 1991. I am a Certified Diplomat of Forensic Sciences, a member of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners, a member of the Southwestern Association of Forensic Document Examiners, and a member of the Questioned Document Subcommittee of the American Society of Testing and Materials. My background and credentials are set forth in Exhibit I attached hereto.
2. I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.
3. Upon a cursory inspection of the internet COLB, one aspect of the image that is clearly questionable is the obliteration of the Certificate No. That number is a tracking number that would allow anyone to ask the question, “Does this number refer to the Certification of Live Birth for the child Barack Hussein Obama II?” It would not reveal any further personal information; therefore, there would be no justifiable reason for oliterating it.
4. In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. In this case, examination of the vault birth certificate for President-Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all.
SANDRA RAMSEY LINES Forensic Document Examiner ........ Paradise Valley, Arizona 85253
Right, like they all know my political beliefs.
Too many people want to attack me personally rather than the ideas I'm expressing. This is fundamentally flawed and resorted to by people who can't challenge the ideas.
The fact is, I'm not a liberal, but even if I were that wouldn't make what I said wrong. The ideas posted here are wrong or right on their merits independent of the motive of the person posting them. If you post something that is incorrect it still has to be shown incorrect regardless of your political leanings.
He was vetted no less rigorously that any other candidate for president in recent history.
Is the vetting process good enough? In some ways yes, but in some ways no.
He's been vetted well enough to satisfy any reasonable person that he's eligible. However, I would like to see state laws passed that would make the vetting process more formal. That would leave less fodder for conspiracy theories.
It would be a very good idea if all presidential candidates were required to present proof of eligibility to at least a few secretaries of state. In Obama's case, that would mean showing a physical copy of the COLB he posted on the internet to a secretary of state.
A lot of this birther nonsense would go away if he and all the other candidates had been required to do that. There would still be some birthers out there no matter, but there would be fewer if there were a formal process in place.
Oh, sometimes I don’t respond because I may read something and post a couple comments in a row, and then leave my computer for a long time. And by the time I’m back the thread’s sorta dead so I figure everyone’s moved on.
But no, I don’t have my original birth certificate with the doctor’s name on it, and I don’t have one for my son. I have something more like the COLB in question, and like I said in another post, I don’t think I’ve even seen it since I got my first passport in high school. I don’t think I’ve ever needed it for anything. In my job, I had be fingerprinted, and the FBI does a yearly background check on me, but my employer has never asked for my birth certificate.
When were they shut up by the government? It hasn’t been for quite some time if they were posting plaques about his birthplace in Kenya on the day he was inaugurated, three weeks ago.
Sandra Lines simply repeated the basic Document Examiner 101 rules that one can't authenticate a scanned image posted on the internet. Something which no person claimed otherwise.
She did not endorse ANY allegation of forgery. Everything she said would equally apply to any authentic, legitimate document which was scanned, redacted, and posted on the internet.
“You are indeed an extreme liberal; ask any other FReeper.”
We’ll never know what he really believes, only what he writes. And what he writes on eligibility threads definitely carries the liberals’ water.
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