ecusa presiding heretic makes Florida situation worse

The Rocky Mountain Telegram ^ | 2 October 2003 | RON WORD

[ahadams2]

Florida Episcopalians, Catholics at Odds

By RON WORD Associated Press Writer

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP)--Local Episcopal and Roman Catholic leaders were trying to heal a rift between the two denominations Thursday that developed when the Catholics rescinded an invitation to let the Episcopalians use one of their churches for a bishop's installation.

The Catholic Diocese of St. Augustine took back the invitation over a disagreement with the Episcopalians over homosexuality.

Specifically, Catholic officials were upset that the Episcopal Church's presiding bishop, Frank Griswold, defended his church's confirmation of a gay bishop in New Hampshire in an interview with The Associated Press. Griswold also argued that the Bible does not condemn same-sex relationships.

Griswold is scheduled to officiate at the installation of Bishop-elect Samuel John Howard as head of the Diocese of Florida on Nov. 1.

The Rev. Canon Ellis Brust, a spokesman for the Episcopal diocese, said Thursday that current Florida Bishop Stephen Jecko and Catholic Bishop Victor Galeone were talking and trying to work out an agreement that would allow the ceremony to go forward.

Griswold released a letter that he sent Thursday to Jecko saying that, after prayer and reflection, he concluded he ``must'' consecrate Howard.

``My ministry as presiding bishop calls me to do all I can through my office and personal presence to help us all realize that, in spite of deep disagreements, we are one in the body of Christ,'' Griswold wrote. ``I have been called to serve the whole church as presiding bishop, not only those who hold one view or another.''

Griswold also said the AP interview was ``far more nuanced and sensitive to the diversity of opinions among us'' than his quotes suggested.

Kathleen Bagg-Morgan, a spokeswoman for the Catholic diocese, said Galeone would not object to Griswold attending the ceremony, but would not allow the use of St. Joseph's Catholic Church if Griswold participates or officiates in the ceremony.

The Episcopal Diocese had planned to use St. Joseph's in Jacksonville because there are no local Episcopal churches large enough for the expected crowd. In an ecumenical move, the Catholics invited them to use St. Joseph's.

Galeone said Wednesday he was revoking the invitation after he learned that Griswold planned to officiate.

``Many of my people would be deeply offended to learn that an Episcopal bishop, who holds a position that is radically opposed to what both the Catholic Church and Scripture teach about homosexuality, is using one of our facilities,'' Galeone said.

In the AP interview on Monday, Griswold defended his denomination's confirmation of Bishop-elect V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the church's first openly gay bishop. He also said homosexuality was not fully understood in biblical times.

``Discreet acts of homosexuality'' were condemned in the Bible because they were acts of lust instead of the ``love, forgiveness, grace'' of committed same-sex relationships, he said.

``Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible,'' Griswold said.

[ahadams2]

anybody have any questions as to why I call him 'the presiding heretic'?

[ahadams2]

Ping

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[Credo]

I like Virtue's characterizations.

"The Pluriform one" or "Sufi Frank".

[mel]

Why do you call him presiding heretic

[ahadams2]

well frank is actually an apostate heretic, but I don't use that because most casual readers don't know what 'apostate' means to begin with and anyway it doesn't have much snap to it that way. I don't want to call him frank the apostate, because that might give someone the mistaken idea that he was somehow comparable to Julian the Apostate,
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08558b.htm
which is giving old frank w-a-y too much credit. I'll grant you David V.'s 'Sufi Frank' and 'the pluriform one' both work well *if* the reader understands that David is referring to frank's theological absurdities, but not everyone does understand that, and besides David's my friend so I don't want to plagarize him.

I suppose one could also call him frank the presiding heresiarch, but most folks don't know what that is either. Also by calling him the presiding heretic, I'm accurately reflecting both that there are a significant number of other heretical bishops in ecusa; and that only the heretics take frank seriously.

Besides it really chaps the heretics grits when they hear that title too...:-)

[Eala]

anybody have any questions as to why I call him 'the presiding heretic'?

ESPECIALLY given the letter posted previously today on FR from the RC Bishop Galeone... absolutely not. This is disgusting.

[dangus]

>>``Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible,'' Griswold said.

This is true, but Robinson doesn't just have a homosexual orientation; he ACTS on it. Course everyone here understands that, but it seems it should be said anyeway.

[secret garden]

*if* the reader understands
LOL you chose that phrase! ;)

[ahadams2]

ah but you see frank the presiding heretic is actually saying "we can't hold anyone responsible for their actions".

[Credo]

Actually, Frank represents what I would call the Rodney King Branch of theology. "Can't we all just get along?"

[livius]

I live in the (Catholic) Diocese of St. Augustine, and frankly, I'm very impressed that Bp. Galeone did this. He has been a very strong pro-life supporter, too. He also published a long and very solid article in the diocesan magazine about families, sex, etc., stating orthodox Catholic doctrine.

Bear in mind, also, that the Florida diocese of the Episcopal Church is very much opposed to Griswold's words. I suspect he planned to preside at this mainly as a slap in the face at the local Episcopal leaders, who are quite conservative.

[N. Theknow]

Amazing arrogance.

The presiding Bishop finds it more Biblical to join sinners in Hell than to try and save them.

The man doth read a strange version of the Bible.

Fortunately for me, the only "extra" section in my Bible is the Apochrypha and not the Book of Heathens.

[Podkayne]

``Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible,'' Griswold said.

So since orientation isn't in the bible all assume it's a new thing? What about maybe , that there is no real gay orientation - just evil self absorbed perversion - an abomination too foul to mention? Maybe this is what the bible says all along and the elitist and omniscient Episcopalion bishops are too proud and self righteous to know the truth when they see it. Pride = the worst of the seven deadly sins according to every christian priest.

[dangus]

I've helped a few "gay" people go straight. I do believe it is a perversion in the most literal sense, but it is often arrived at after the fantastic evil has been done *to* a person (molestation, etc.), destroying their natural functioning.

[beelzepug]

Griswold wrote..."I have been called to serve the whole church as presiding bishop, not only those who hold one view or another."

The problem with this statement is that Griswold believes people ought to be able to publicly hold "views" adverse to Scripture and still remain in the Anglican Communion. His job as it pertains to those people should be to show them the error of their beliefs or show them the door. To allow this sort of dissention and disruption within the church is just not acceptable. While a presiding bishop does not have the authority of, say, a pope, he can bring a lot of pressure to bear to keep the American bishops in line. Frank, unfortunately, is a "get along-go along" kind of guy, without courage of convictions or, for that matter, any convictions at all, and incapable of real leadership. And he's always been a staunch supporter of the gay faction.

[ahadams2]

You wrote "The presiding Bishop finds it more Biblical to join sinners in Hell than to try and save them."

Several years ago I found myself in an argument with a heretical priest who thought he was hot stuff theologically - he had all the lies down pat and couldn't understand how I could be so closed minded. Finally I hit him with Matthew 23: 13-15 modified to address just *him* and I am firmly convinced he had no idea where I'd come up with that.

Matthew 23:13-15
13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. 15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Does that or does that not also fit frank the presiding heretic?

[N. Theknow]

Does that or does that not also fit frank the presiding heretic?

Don't you know it!

I was also reading the last chapter of Revelation this morning and found the warning about adding to and subtracting from very applicable.

Feel very sorry for Frank, as his mouth is writing checks his soul can't cover. And not just for himself alone.

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - ECUSA

[Lion in Winter]

I think Bishop Galeone is a fine Cleric and I agree with his actions. I had the priviledge of hearing him speak a few years ago on Right to Life and I came away very impressed by him. His brother is a fine gentleman as well.