Senator Questions Obama Eligibility

World Net Daily ^ | Feb. 22, 2009 | World Net Daily

[patriotgal1787]

WASHINGTON – A U.S. senator has weighed in on the continuing controversy over Barack Obama's eligibility for office by saying he has never seen proof the new president was actually born in Hawaii.

"Well, his father was Kenyan and they said he was born in Hawaii, but I haven't seen any birth certificate," Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., told constituents in Cullman County. "You have to be born in America to be president."

[hoosiermama]

BUMP

[BP2]

Excuse the cross-post...

Without going into all the issues over the document itself, there are loopholes in the Hawaiian Statutes big enough that you can drive a Mack truck through about birth documentation. The CertificaTION of Live Birth did not exist until Nov 2001 and was designed as a way to allow a requester quicker access to verification of their birth.

“This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS  338-13(b), 338-19]."

The way Hawaiian law is written -- you can be born on ANOTHER PLANET and if you have a single Hawaiian "parent" willing to claim you as their own, you can be granted a Hawaiian "birth certificate," become a US Citizen -- and by default, a NBC:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

What this all means is BHO could have been born in Japan on a shopping trip, at a home for runaways in Canada, or in Kenya on a visit to Obama Sr's old homestead and he could still get a document saying he was “born in the USA.”

As long as the birth mother (in this case) proved her Hawaiian residency and said "my child was born in Seattle, but by virtue of my state residency, I want the birth to show as Hawaii," -- POOF -- we now have a Hawaiian birth record for BHO.

I have read a lot on this whole issue and many point to the newspaper listing of his birth announcement.

Well, sorry folks -- that is a "vanity listing" submitted to the paper since only a few of those appear each day and they are dwarfed by the number of kids born in the islands.

Just like marriage news items are only a sample of all the marriages done. Furthermore, if it WAS used by Ann or her mother to acquire a Certificate of Late Birth or some other document, Hawaiian Rule 902(6) and others rules have provisions against "presumptive authenticity" of such a documents such as a newspaper clipping: Rule 902. Self-authentication. "Extrinsic evidence of authenticity as a condition precedent to admissibility is not required with respect to the following: ... (6) Newspapers and periodicals. Printed materials purporting to be newspapers or periodicals.

Local people interested in this issue in Hawaii have tried to find anybody who worked the hospitals back then in the delivery rooms to recall if such a birth was done.

The loophole in the law makes even the COLB a problem.

To fully find out what happened the state record will have to be opened to see if he was born in Hawaii and the court may have to demand that.

The COLB is built from source documents.

The doctor who attended the birth (or nurse who certifies from the delivery room or even a midwife in some cases) has to submit the paperwork to document the trail.

If he was born out of state and the COLB is by the mothers certification then that documentation would be in the record.

People have been trying every angle on this from talking to people who worked in the delivery rooms then to trying to access lists of who used the delivery rooms to even admission records or ambulance records to get to the hospital.

Right now nobody can find a shred to support the birth in either hospital of size there because partly of current privacy laws.

BHO in his books talks of a different form of the birth record because he relates of how it included his birth weight. The CertificaTION does not show that data, but the CertificATE would include that data.

Trouble is if you request a copy today you only get the same info you see on the newer version and you will not for example see the birth weight given. Obama seems to know as mentioned in Dreams of My Father: "If so, they (his grandparents) miscalculated not only my mother’s quiet determination but also the sway of their own emotions. First the baby arrived, eight pounds, two ounces, with ten toes and ten fingers and hungry for food. What in the heck were they supposed to do?"

And since you cannot be the witness at your own birth, you need a witness, preferably with an "attesting signature" to prove to the WORLD that you ARE who you say you are. There's none on the CertificaTION of Live Birth.

There is much more data in the source file at the state that the COLB is extracted from and that is the real data that needs to be looked at.

HOWEVER, after doing some research, I think the key to beating Hawaiian Statutes 338-13(b), 338-17.8, and 338-19 may be herein:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0901.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0902.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0903.htm

[mkjessup]

What’s so unconstitutional about it?

(Ahem) It all depends on the method used.

[Michael Michael]

The CertificaTION of Live Birth did not exist until Nov 2001 and was designed as a way to allow a requester quicker access to verification of their birth.

If a Certification of Live Birth didn't exist until November 2001, then how do you explain the fact that the statute you cite here (HRS 338-13), which is cited on the document itself, hasn't been changed since 1978?

[L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

The way Hawaiian law is written -- you can be born on ANOTHER PLANET and if you have a single Hawaiian "parent" willing to claim you as their own, you can be granted a Hawaiian "birth certificate," become a US Citizen -- and by default, a NBC:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

That statute didn't exist until 1982.

[L 1982, c 182, §1]

So how could Obama's birth registration have been filed by the registrar in 1961?

What this all means is BHO could have been born in Japan on a shopping trip...

What this all means is you apparently don't know how to read.

I have read a lot on this whole issue and many point to the newspaper listing of his birth announcement.

Well, sorry folks -- that is a "vanity listing" submitted to the paper since only a few of those appear each day and they are dwarfed by the number of kids born in the islands.

Vanity listings? That's funny, it clearly says "Health Bureau Statistics" right a the top of the heading. Also, both papers were Honolulu papers. Does the New York Times publish the births of everyone in the state of New York? Or the Los Angeles Times the births of everyone in California? Of course not.

And you'll note that all of the births listed in the Honolulu Advertiser are identical to those listed in the Honolulu Star Bulletin. And in the same order. Also, they all give just street addresses, none of them list any city or other island.

So it would seem rather obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills that the births listed in the newspapers were only those births in Honolulu, and not the entire state of Hawaii.

[BP2]

Michael, come on, do I have to hold your hand on this one like I had to on the 14th Amendment last week?!

If a Certification of Live Birth didn't exist until November 2001, then how do you explain the fact that the statute you cite here (HRS 338-13), which is cited on the document itself, hasn't been changed since 1978?

HRS 338-13 pertains to ALL of the forms the DOH generates -- birth, death and marriage certificates are the chief forms. The exact verbiage of the pertinent section, subpart (c) is: "Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health." That cover the gambit of all of the forms they produce, back in '78 and now.

However, if you look at the bottom left hand corner of the Certification of Live Birth, you'll see "Rev. 11/01." It's the first time the laser-printed form was used by Hawaii. How do I know this? Well, in addition to doing my research on the net, I also made a phone call to the DOH to confirm it about 2 months ago -- what did you find out when YOU called them, Michael?

Vanity listings? That's funny, it clearly says "Health Bureau Statistics" right a the top of the heading

It would be nice to have the WHOLE newspaper to see what the "price rate schedule" was for vanity ads, as well as a printed protocol for new parents who had their baby unregistered through the Dept of Health. If you had a baby while you were visiting a relative in, say, Canada, the newspaper might just take your word for it versus waiting a couple of months for the Hawaiian DOH to process your Canadian COLB to them register your infant as a American citizen...

Also, it's late and my eyes are blurry, but I don't see "Health Bureau Statistics" here -- maybe you have a forged version or something... Regardless, I don't recognize such an entity anyway... I know there's a "Dept of Health", and an office and registrar of "Vital Statistics", but no "Health Bureau" that I'm aware of... but I'm sure that would have been spelled out in the "Health Bureau" birth announcement protocols section, too...

But I can see that Hawaii's birth laws are pretty loosey-goosey NOW and I bet they were even MORE SO nearly 50 years ago:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

"Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country."

So you can see per Hawaii’s own Department of Health allowing amended certificates and certificates issued for persons BORN OUT OF THE COUNTRY (let alone Hawaii), requiring a "birth certificate" prior to an announcement being placed in the paper does NOTHING toward proving a birth actually occurred IN Hawaii.

[Evil Slayer]

I notice that you are fairly new to FR. What REALLY interest me is your "in forum" posts are all directed at the BC issue. Would you by chance be working for Team Obama and sent to FR to discredit posters that bring up the BC subject?

[Scanian]

They sometimes put a comment on an article that it “lacks neutrality” and I’ve seen their editor go so far as to comment that an article “sounds like a fan site.” Let’s see if they do anything about Shelby. Someone really should complain to their admin, especially if the “condemnation” remark is not sourced.

[Canedawg]

“Would you by chance be working for Team Obama and sent to FR...”
* *

The answer is obvious from skimming through this thread.

Morons who post devil’s advocate messages defending the kenyan are advocates for the devil.

His agenda is narrow and unlike The Lying Fraud, transparent.

[Scanian]

It could be that Zer0’s policies and appointments have been so outrageous that some pubbies are getting angry enough to start questioning his eligibility. Some of us already knew what a marxist bass turd he was but others had to see the proof, apparently.

[Scanian]

Part of the disinformation squad? They’ve been pretty quiet lately. Maybe they’ve decided that all that BS isn’t working for them.

[Non-Sequitur]

"You have to be born in America to be president."

So he's eliminating McCain as well?

[Scanian]

No doubt about it. We all know what he’s up to. The best policy is to simply ignore his type. :-)

[Scanian]

Hear, hear!

[dascallie]

You idiot. YES they have.

[dascallie]

You are on a loser Obat. YOU ARE LYING. REPEAT LIE REPEAT LIE REPEAT LIE.

That is the corrupt Obama way. Why don’t we hear a little from the “master” himself and move you little anonymous yapping minions aside?

Oh...yeah, that would incriminate Obama and put lying directly ON THE RECORD....so he is Mr “Speak no evil”. Very TRANSPARENT— LOLOLOLOL

McCain’s birth documents are AVAILABLE EVEN TODAY for any who wish to review them.

OBAMA WILL BE BUSTED—A MATTER OF TIME.

[OBXWanderer]

Finally! Someone with some testosterone!

Possibly, but this issue should have been brought out last September by Senator Shelby's distinguished collegue from Arizona. But, no, we had to run an "honorable" campaign "my friend". As much as I dislike McCain, and as much as I idolize Palin, I seriously do not think we would be looking at a 7k or possibly less, DJA with those two. And with Sarah taking over the left seat in '12, this country would be looking at a 15 to 20k DJA. But no, my friend, we had to run an "honorable" campaign, and we were told NOT to worry about an Obama presidency. This issue, if it had been persued, whatever the results from Obama, would have been a game changer. As you mention, testosterone was in short supply...but why does one have to have a high level of testosterone to ask such a simple question?

[RipSawyer]

I don’t have a lot of time to dig further into this right now but if that quotation is all that matters then any child born to a mother who managed to illegally sneak into the country long enough to give birth is qualified for the presidency. Regardless of today’s goings on I have a hard time believing that is what the founders intended. Certainly they didn’t consider everyone born in this country natural born citizens, that would have meant that slaves as well as all the members of the native american tribes would have been eligible to the presidency which is obviously not the case.

[penelopesire]

AWESOME!! If Sen. Shelby is now coming out on the issue, it means that something is afoot in regards to this whole issue. Someone now has the goods on Obama and I expect it will be coming out soon!

WOOHOO!!

[mtnwmn]

However is right. Because we are law abiding citizens we get stuck with an unqualified person for President of the United States. If we practiced Civil Unrest, we would be taken more seriously?

[Non-Sequitur]

McCain had the additional claim to being a natural born citizen because the Panama Canal Zone was a U.S. Territory when he was born.

Even if that were true, the Canal Zone is not the same as the U.S. If a Panamanian national, for example, gave birth to a baby in the Canal Zone that child would not have been a U.S. citizen. If she have given birth in New York City then the child would.

Shelby is obviously subscribing to the Donofrio theory of citizenship which requires presidents to be born within the U.S. to two U.S. citizens.