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To: dascallie
Excuse the cross-post...

Without going into all the issues over the document itself, there are loopholes in the Hawaiian Statutes big enough that you can drive a Mack truck through about birth documentation. The CertificaTION of Live Birth did not exist until Nov 2001 and was designed as a way to allow a requester quicker access to verification of their birth.



“This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS  338-13(b), 338-19]."


The way Hawaiian law is written -- you can be born on ANOTHER PLANET and if you have a single Hawaiian "parent" willing to claim you as their own, you can be granted a Hawaiian "birth certificate," become a US Citizen -- and by default, a NBC:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

What this all means is BHO could have been born in Japan on a shopping trip, at a home for runaways in Canada, or in Kenya on a visit to Obama Sr's old homestead and he could still get a document saying he was “born in the USA.”

As long as the birth mother (in this case) proved her Hawaiian residency and said "my child was born in Seattle, but by virtue of my state residency, I want the birth to show as Hawaii," -- POOF -- we now have a Hawaiian birth record for BHO.

I have read a lot on this whole issue and many point to the newspaper listing of his birth announcement.

Well, sorry folks -- that is a "vanity listing" submitted to the paper since only a few of those appear each day and they are dwarfed by the number of kids born in the islands.

Just like marriage news items are only a sample of all the marriages done. Furthermore, if it WAS used by Ann or her mother to acquire a Certificate of Late Birth or some other document, Hawaiian Rule 902(6) and others rules have provisions against "presumptive authenticity" of such a documents such as a newspaper clipping: Rule 902. Self-authentication. "Extrinsic evidence of authenticity as a condition precedent to admissibility is not required with respect to the following: ... (6) Newspapers and periodicals. Printed materials purporting to be newspapers or periodicals.

Local people interested in this issue in Hawaii have tried to find anybody who worked the hospitals back then in the delivery rooms to recall if such a birth was done.

The loophole in the law makes even the COLB a problem.

To fully find out what happened the state record will have to be opened to see if he was born in Hawaii and the court may have to demand that.

The COLB is built from source documents.

The doctor who attended the birth (or nurse who certifies from the delivery room or even a midwife in some cases) has to submit the paperwork to document the trail.

If he was born out of state and the COLB is by the mothers certification then that documentation would be in the record.

People have been trying every angle on this from talking to people who worked in the delivery rooms then to trying to access lists of who used the delivery rooms to even admission records or ambulance records to get to the hospital.

Right now nobody can find a shred to support the birth in either hospital of size there because partly of current privacy laws.

BHO in his books talks of a different form of the birth record because he relates of how it included his birth weight. The CertificaTION does not show that data, but the CertificATE would include that data.

Trouble is if you request a copy today you only get the same info you see on the newer version and you will not for example see the birth weight given. Obama seems to know as mentioned in Dreams of My Father: "If so, they (his grandparents) miscalculated not only my mother’s quiet determination but also the sway of their own emotions. First the baby arrived, eight pounds, two ounces, with ten toes and ten fingers and hungry for food. What in the heck were they supposed to do?"

And since you cannot be the witness at your own birth, you need a witness, preferably with an "attesting signature" to prove to the WORLD that you ARE who you say you are. There's none on the CertificaTION of Live Birth.

There is much more data in the source file at the state that the COLB is extracted from and that is the real data that needs to be looked at.

HOWEVER, after doing some research, I think the key to beating Hawaiian Statutes 338-13(b), 338-17.8, and 338-19 may be herein:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0901.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0902.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0903.htm


222 posted on 02/22/2009 11:49:28 PM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2
The CertificaTION of Live Birth did not exist until Nov 2001 and was designed as a way to allow a requester quicker access to verification of their birth.

If a Certification of Live Birth didn't exist until November 2001, then how do you explain the fact that the statute you cite here (HRS 338-13), which is cited on the document itself, hasn't been changed since 1978?

[L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]


The way Hawaiian law is written -- you can be born on ANOTHER PLANET and if you have a single Hawaiian "parent" willing to claim you as their own, you can be granted a Hawaiian "birth certificate," become a US Citizen -- and by default, a NBC:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm


That statute didn't exist until 1982.

[L 1982, c 182, §1]


So how could Obama's birth registration have been filed by the registrar in 1961?

What this all means is BHO could have been born in Japan on a shopping trip...

What this all means is you apparently don't know how to read.

I have read a lot on this whole issue and many point to the newspaper listing of his birth announcement.

Well, sorry folks -- that is a "vanity listing" submitted to the paper since only a few of those appear each day and they are dwarfed by the number of kids born in the islands.


Vanity listings? That's funny, it clearly says "Health Bureau Statistics" right a the top of the heading. Also, both papers were Honolulu papers. Does the New York Times publish the births of everyone in the state of New York? Or the Los Angeles Times the births of everyone in California? Of course not.

And you'll note that all of the births listed in the Honolulu Advertiser are identical to those listed in the Honolulu Star Bulletin. And in the same order. Also, they all give just street addresses, none of them list any city or other island.

So it would seem rather obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills that the births listed in the newspapers were only those births in Honolulu, and not the entire state of Hawaii.


224 posted on 02/23/2009 12:27:46 AM PST by Michael Michael
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