Posted on 02/24/2022 6:58:05 AM PST by DiogenesLamp
Seceded state about to be reacquired by the Union. Which side should we root for?
I am sure that is part of his thinking, but I think it is also based on the need by Russia of that access to the sea as well as other concerns.
I also think that no small part of it is the restoration of Russia's glory. Putin is well known to long for the old powerful Soviet Union.
Russians also have great respect for power and brutality, and this makes them love Putin.
My current understanding is that Lincoln only won the presidency because the banksters funded him to the tune of $Millions, while Douglas had $5000. Banksters have been running the country ever since (for the most part).
Putin always regarded that as a tragedy, and I think he wants to restore it, but with more crony capitalist economic underpinnings.
What was his Fort Sumtersk?
>> I catch flack for this but I don’t care anymore. Lincoln was a tyrant. He was well spoken and could write flowery poetic political speeches, but before the war began no one thought it was a war for union. Union became the battle cry when they need to find a reason to go to war with people they despised. Think about that for one second. Does it make any sense at all to go to war with people you despise so that you can bring them under the umbrella of your federal jurisdiction? <<
You must ignore the fact the institution of slavery was so repugnant to democracy that the Confederacy was desperate to export slaves to the West, because they were convinced that if they did not, there would be a terribly bloody uprising; and that they attacked the North; and that their goal in defeating the North was not their own sovereignty, but to secure the West as theirs.
The breakaway republics are more comparable to the US south in 1860 than Ukraine, and Russia's support of the breakaway republics prior to this week is comparable to Britain and France's support of the Confederacy.
"Gay Marriage"? "Abortion is a right"? Banning prayer in Public schools? Creating "anchor babies"?
All this and more was a consequence of the 14th amendment, and *THAT* was a consequence of the Civil War.
No, these items are the misapplication of the 14th Amendment, and if the 14th didn't exist, they would have be created by some other judicial fiat.
Nope, it’s neither.
Spoken like a man who never thought deeply about the history of his own country. Lincoln famously said that he would preserve the union with slavery if he could. In other words he would’ve allowed slavery to continue if the south would simply return to the union peacefully. This is your hero, not mine.
Ukraine is another story. Ranked in the top 5 for minerals, and food in the region,among other things, Ukraine is a treasure house the Russians need to bootstrap their economy. Watch as the 'sanctions' fail to rein in Putin. Western Europe is at the mercy of Russia to provide oil and gas for their economies since Biden literally destroyed our energy independence as a net exporter of oil and gas overnight, so they will stay out of it.
My biggest fear is Biden sending US troops in to show how tough he is, without UN sanction or assistance against a real world power, with real world nukes, who may not be afraid to use them.
I thought that up this morning while watching the news. It occurred to me what Russia is doing is not any different from what Lincoln did.
I am sorry I forgot to add your name to the pings I made above, but there are so many names to remember.
Great Awakening over Great Reset.
In other words, Putin, Russia. Even Zelinsky, who is working under the covers *with* Putin.
The west currently is embodied with the likes of the bidEn crime family, with ties to Ukraine.
Not when Hunter also has massive interests in Russia.
In world affairs, 20 years is not that long. The borders of Europe have been in a constant state of change for 1,000 years.
Too bad there are no slaves in Ukraine for Vlad to free, only slavs. /sarc
History tells us that sooner or later someone is going to invade Russia. Usually 2 or 3 times a century.
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And eventually get squashed, like Napoleon and Hitler. Thanks, but no thanks.
I believe that which is freely joined has the right to freely un-join, particularly for States of the United States. That said, I am not familiar enough with Ukraine to determine if that ‘original joining’ was indeed free or not.
In any case, this is not my dog, not my hunt. I suggest we send Cackles back in there for another try and see if she can think up something even more stupid than her last try.
Victors write the history books.
Hard to say. If all Putin wants are these two regions and stops there, I don’t see too much danger. But if this turns into a total takeover, someone needs to step in. Another perspective is just see who the American media wants and go the other way. If Russia gets what they want and I don’t see how they won’t if it’s just them and Ukraine fighting, it would be nice if somehow they can expose Ukraine as the money laundering capitol of the world. Maybe something good can come from this.
Of course this is messy throughout history and in many cases today, depending on how far back you want to go with old claims and, even more explosively, new claims.
Where are you on Kosovo? Taiwan? How much do you base your perspective on values of liberty and rights? Desires of the populations involved? How small in scale and integrated in territory do you want to go? How great a majority need be involved? How much do you fall back on realpolitik? Possession being 9/10s of international law?
Seems to me that whatever shots you think were fired first were fired in South Carolina by citizens of that then CSA state.
Of course, Lincoln invaded; and not just South Carolina.
ML/NJ
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