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Romans in China?
Archaeology ^ | Volume 52 Number 3, May/June 1999 | Erling Hoh

Posted on 07/18/2004 8:43:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

This idea was first proposed by Homer Hasenphlug Dubs, an Oxford University professor of Chinese history, who speculated in 1955 that some of the 10,000 Roman prisoners taken by the Parthians after the battle of Carrhae in southeastern Turkey in 53 B.C. made their way east to Uzbekistan to enlist with Jzh Jzh against the Han. Chinese accounts of the battle, in which Jzh Jzh was decapitated and his army defeated, note unusual military formations and the use of wooden fortifications foreign to the nomadic Huns. Dubs postulated that after the battle the Chinese employed the Roman mercenaries as border guards, settling them in Liqian, a short form of Alexandria used by the Chinese to denote Rome. While some Chinese scholars have been critical of Dubs' hypothesis, others went so far as to identify Lou Zhuangzi as the probable location of Liqian in the late 1980s.

(Excerpt) Read more at archaeology.org ...


TOPICS: Arts/Photography; Books/Literature; Cheese, Moose, Sister; Education; History; Hobbies; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Reference; Science; Travel; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: ancient; ancientnavigation; archaeology; china; dna; empire; emptydna; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; homerhdubs; liqian; liquan; lumbago; mtdna; romanempire; romans; romansinchina; rome; uzbekistan
I posted this as a reply in FairOpinion's thread, Archeologists discover ancient graffiti on China's Great Wall (and it already shows up in Google, which is good, because the FR search engine, well, it could use some improvement. ;')
see Civ's favorites incl Books, Magazines, Movies, Music

1 posted on 07/18/2004 8:43:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; blam; FairOpinion; farmfriend; StayAt HomeMother; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; ...
Let's face facts -- I'm drunk on my own power.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

2 posted on 07/18/2004 8:44:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv

Which seems to be a pretty good thing,since you're pinging us to some great threads! :-)


3 posted on 07/18/2004 8:45:29 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: SunkenCiv
Romans in China?

Volume 52 Number 3, May/June 1999
by Erling Hoh

Baffled peasants in a windswept village in Gansu province are being described by Chinese newspapers as blond-haired, blue-eyed descendants of Roman mercenaries who allegedly fought the Han Chinese 2,000 years ago. While no one in the modern town of Lou Zhuangzi is fair and there is no proof that the Romans ever set foot in Gansu before the Christian era, the reports have revived discussion over whether a group of Romans offered their services to the Hun warlord Jzh Jzh in 36 B.C. before settling in the Gansu village of Liqian, thought by some to be Lou Zhuangzi.

This idea was first proposed by Homer Hasenphlug Dubs, an Oxford University professor of Chinese history, who speculated in 1955 that some of the 10,000 Roman prisoners taken by the Parthians after the battle of Carrhae in southeastern Turkey in 53 B.C. made their way east to Uzbekistan to enlist with Jzh Jzh against the Han. Chinese accounts of the battle, in which Jzh Jzh was decapitated and his army defeated, note unusual military formations and the use of wooden fortifications foreign to the nomadic Huns. Dubs postulated that after the battle the Chinese employed the Roman mercenaries as border guards, settling them in Liqian, a short form of Alexandria used by the Chinese to denote Rome. While some Chinese scholars have been critical of Dubs' hypothesis, others went so far as to identify Lou Zhuangzi as the probable location of Liqian in the late 1980s.

Ten years later, still no academic papers have been published on the subject, and no archaeological investigation has been conducted in Lou Zhuangzi, but the media and local government remain unfazed. County officials, sensing potential tourist revenue, have erected a Doric pavilion in Lou Zhuangzi, while the county capital of Yongchang has decorated its main thoroughfare with enormous statues of a Roman soldier and a Roman woman flanking a Communist party official.

4 posted on 07/18/2004 8:54:28 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

Rome knew of China. Alexander was headed to China originally but got only as far as India.


5 posted on 07/18/2004 8:56:25 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: SunkenCiv
Caucasians dominated Gansu province 4,000 years ago. No suprise to me.

In fact, I've seen it written that all Caucasians may have come from this region.

6 posted on 07/18/2004 8:56:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: RightWhale
"Alexander was headed to China originally but got only as far as India."

I saw an article a while back speculating that Alexander died of West Nile Virus.

7 posted on 07/18/2004 8:58:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

How about one of the giant Iraqi sand spiders? Maybe that got him.


8 posted on 07/18/2004 9:07:00 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: blam
"Baffled peasants in a windswept village in Gansu province are being described by Chinese newspapers as blond-haired, blue-eyed," and they were baffled because they were being so described. :'D
9 posted on 07/18/2004 9:07:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: nopardons
Thanks, much obliged.
10 posted on 07/18/2004 9:08:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: RightWhale
China sent an ambassador who only got as far as Mesopotamia, arriving when Rome wasn't in charge there (Roman dominion stretched to the Persian Gulf for only three years; Hadrian abandoned it). There's plenty of evidence of trade, and some evidence that workers from India were brought to the Red Sea coastal colonies. India had plenty of trade, there's even an ivory figurine from India found buried in Pompeii. The Chinese Han court recorded a visit from a Roman trader from the time of Marcus Aurelius (I believe that was the emperor).
11 posted on 07/18/2004 9:12:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv
"and they were baffled because they were being so described. :'D"

They know.

From the excellent book The Tarim Mummies, page #281: "...Narin Infers that they (Caucasians) had been there at least since the Qijia Culture of c. 2,000BC and probably even earlier in the Yangshao Culture of the Neolithic. This would render the Tocharians as virtually native to Gansu (and earlier than the putative spread of the Neolithic to Xinjaing) and Narin goes so far as to argue that the Indo-Europeans themselves originally dispensed from this area westwards."

12 posted on 07/18/2004 9:30:29 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Thank you for making the story readable!


13 posted on 07/18/2004 9:31:34 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: blam
Yeah, I've posted that book title and a related one somewhere around here. But now I've got to finish the denouement of "High Noon".
14 posted on 07/18/2004 9:36:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv

Well, I don't know what this is all about, but I've visited Xian, the ancient capital of China and strolled amongst the clay statues of the soldliers. I've forgotten the year that they were buried, but there are no two faces alike (many look like some of the Chinese friends I had in California in my youth) and there are definitely Caucasian soldiers amongst the ranks. The features and the hair depicted is NOT Asian.

Another article I read a few years back described the discovery of a Christian Nativity tableau hidden in the attic of a Bhuddist temple in an outlying province of China. Thae article claimed that the tableau dated back to the Apostles -- Thomas specifically. They claimed that he had made his way along the shores of India and then north into China while he was evangelizing.

I never heard any more about it.


15 posted on 07/19/2004 3:11:55 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
I've seen books on the Assyrian Orthodox church, which evangelized into Central Asia and China, basically along the Silk Route and points north and south. The ruined churches can still be found in the Chinese interior, mostly in places where few people go nowadays. Jews also wound up in China, and there are physically Chinese people who have "Iuda" as their ethnicity.
Legends of the Chinese Jews of Kaifeng Legends of the Chinese Jews of Kaifeng
by Xin Xu
tr by Beverly Friend
illus by Ting Cheng
reviewed

16 posted on 07/19/2004 11:04:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

Please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
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17 posted on 07/31/2005 5:57:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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updated story on same topic:

Roman Legion Founded Chinese City
Ansa | 7-25-2005
Posted on 07/31/2005 12:31:23 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1454296/posts


18 posted on 07/31/2005 6:11:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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19 posted on 04/11/2006 1:09:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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20 posted on 08/17/2008 5:42:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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