Posted on 06/11/2011 3:46:44 PM PDT by Kartographer
In today’s “modern” globalist economy, we have relied upon centralized and highly manipulated trade, forced interdependency, senseless and undisciplined consumption, endless debt creation, welfare addiction, and the erosion of quality, as a means to sustain a system that ultimately is DESIGNED to erode our freedoms not to mention our ability to effectively take care of ourselves. We have been infantized by our financial environment. In the near future, those who wish to live beyond a meager staple of government handouts (if any are even given) will be required to make a 180 degree reversal from their current lifestyle of dependency and immediate gratification towards one of self sufficiency, personal entrepreneurship, quality trade, and a mindset of necessity, rather than unfounded excess.
This means that each and every one of us will not only be driven to form barter networks outside the designated confines of the mainstream, we will have to become active producers within those networks. Each and every one of us will need to discover practical goods and skills that will be in high demand regardless of economic conditions. Being that our society has all but forgotten how this kind of trade works, let’s examine a short list of items as well as proficiencies that are sure to be highly sought after as the collapse progresses…
(Excerpt) Read more at randysright.wordpress.com ...
See, now that's what I'm talking about.
When those trucks, ships, planes stop then so does the food.
I have been there twice. In winter of 1979, I lived in Malibu and all 4 entry roads were cut off -- PCH north (at Trancas), PCH south (at Sunset), Malibu Canyon (at the tunnel as happens every year) and Kanan/Dume at Encinal. We went exatly those 3 days and they were talking about a ferry service but then somehow they got PCH at Sunset open and supplies (and us) started moving again.
The second time was the Northridge quake (I was 3 miles form the epicenter). All the local stores were closed for 2 weeks+, but you could drive 1/2 hour or so into Hollywood or or thereabouts and the stores were open and the shelves full.
I'll bet I could sell 3 hours without heat in paper sacks for $20 a sack up there right now. ;)
Of course, I meant during freezing weather.
Although that saved my life in Dec 2009, bleeding out on a mountain during a snow storm.
I wouldn't have survived without a bunch of complicated skill sets that a bunch of guys had learned.
It's important to remember what it takes to survive, and what we need to do to support that.
/johnny
You are discouraging people from taking action that will help them be more independent in good times or bad. If someone grows a garden, and cans the excess that they cannot eat fresh, there is no downside. The same can be said for someone who has the means to defend themselves. Many on this board feel a storm is coming, so they make prudent preparations that will give them peace of mind in a best case and just might save their lives if times get real bad. You tell people they should not even try to grow some of their own food. A defeatist attitude is that if a weenie. Lead, follow or get out of the way.
That is a lot of words describing some very outlying scenarios.
I keep 6 months gross income in a CD, so that is where I draw my risk line.
But 2 years of staples? Seems extreme but if it lets you relax then more power to ya.
My point is that most people probably CAN’T follow the OP’s advice and the OP posits highly improbable scenarios.
Green Salad a “luxury?” We are officially in different worlds. Yours is valid (as is mine) — but we have a bridge I just can’t make it past.
Freedumb,
Your opinions of the likely outcomes of the aftermath of a likely future economy collapse exist within a continuum of possible outcomes. No one here has any more idea of what the future holds than you do.
It is a shame that we (Freepers) can’t all get along a little more graciously on threads like this one. It’d be interesting to see how this same conversation progressed were all the participants face to face.
Keyboards seem to strip some folks of basic manners and etiquette.
Incidentally, ya might want to consider keeping your roving killer / gatherer gang outta North Georgia. The competition here is gonna be fierce (grin).
>>You are discouraging people from taking action that will help them be more independent in good times or bad. If someone grows a garden, and cans the excess that they cannot eat fresh, there is no downside. <<
Please reread my posts. I think a garden is a great idea (and having other survival skills such as the ability to hunt) and have said so over and over and over — in dang near every post.
I am saying it just it isn’t always practical — and that it is one of many ideas the OP suggests that are for an improbably scenario.
And if I have a farm with cookies, booze, and former mutant-biker-zombie chicks (mutant-biker-zombies all died in an ambuscade)? And regular food? And smokes? ;)
/johnny
Thanks
>>Incidentally, ya might want to consider keeping your roving killer / gatherer gang outta North Georgia. The competition here is gonna be fierce (grin).<<
That explains why my recruiting has been so shallow there. I assume you have better cookies. I hope my new beirmeister will turn the tide...
>>And smokes? ;)<<
DANG IT! I left the tobacco to you way upthread!
If this was a Sims scenario I think my gang wouldn’t do nearly as well as I originally thought. Good thing we both read the same war books...
“My attempting to bring some reality to the discussions seems to engender great anger and angst.”
I see it differently. The anger and angst being brought out now is the belief of those on threads like these, let alone those who read and do not post, that we are—or have—disintegrated to the point of needing to protect what we can, in the face of not knowing whether we can absolutely trust folks we see during a regular day.
You know. You go to work, and someone practically wants to take your head off for something, like you’re in a battle. Or people drive like banshees at 5:30 in the morning. Or someone in a grocery line screams at someone. People are, quite simply, afraid. Lots of people.
You’ve been on FR longer than I, so you’ve participated in more discussions. But the anger I see on FR I have come to believe is actually fear that becomes a righteous anger, so focussed that it needs a solution. Folks don’t want to argue and talk over each other like what we see on TV anymore. Maybe that leads to an intolerance, but it may just be that people are recognizing their needs from what they get here at FR are so specific that there isn’t much give anymore. Like with our budgets, the choices are getting slimmer, and so are the answers.
On a different level, this reminds me of how the other half and I can remain together. We call it a moritorium on WMD, words of mass destruction. There are threads here that are full of light and hope. There are others that devolve into flame wars. Over time, I have seen fewer silly threads, but I don’t go look at those. Then again, right now I like watching the baby hummingbirds, Joplin and Heather, over at phoebeallens.com
Just my 2 cents.
>>Although that saved my life in Dec 2009, bleeding out on a mountain during a snow storm.<<
YIKES! Looks like we all have some brushes with disaster here...
I am glad you had or had access to the knowledge you needed.
I have been getting some guff but I really do appreciate the insights and thoughts. Yours wouldn’t be there if you weren’t there.
And remember... biker zombies, biermeister and cookies... It doesn’t get much better...
>>You know. You go to work, and someone practically wants to take your head off for something, like you’re in a battle.<<
Frankly, sometimes I get ticked off and start saying (posting) things I *know* are stupid, wrong and hurtful. My anger has a deep but hard trigger.
Fortunately, I feel pretty good this wasn’t one of those threads :)
“So we hit 15% unemployment (improbable, even with this administration).”
Real unemployment has been over 25% for some time now.
Then you've got a couple of brand new best friends. Did I mention that Mrs. L was a four star chef in another life? Just because you've survived the economic apocolypse doesn't mean you have to live like a barbarian.
L
“Mrs. L was a four star chef in another life”
I read that New Year’s eve snackfest of yours from a ways back. ‘You had me at’ goat cheese. It sounded like heaven.
But if Tomorrow bring Strife, Internal wars and Rebellions then those of us prepared will survive longer than those that did not prepare. How long we survive will be determined by Prayer, Preparations, Survival skill and downright luck.
I personally think their will be at least two stages of the disaster and your requirements will be vastly difference.
Stage1. Survival of fittest. Most of your supplies hidden You may have to leave and come back. You have to sleep sometime therefore you cannot win a protracted battle.
Stage2. Rebuild(May not happen). Now you can uncover some of your supplies and start thinking about homesteading.
If your relying on a garden in stage 1 your stuck. You must fight for if you leave you will Starve.
Now Today is the time to prepare. Stock up on Supplies and Knowledge. If you make a mistake now in learning something you want starve. We may not have that luxury in the future.
>>Real unemployment has been over 25% for some time now.<<
I am using the classic definition for brevity. If we were really at 75% employment we would be looking at dust bowl conditions.
It is bad but just not that bad yet. And I don’t see it coming to food riots or needing to use my zombie biker army.
Especially if we elect Herman Cain in 2012. Then this whole discussion becomes moot :)
The person who made the luxury comment about greens was someone who refused to pay for poor produce and, given that most produce was in shortage, had decided to go without for the interim. I served a green salad because I grow lettuce and tomatoes and mini red peppers hydroponically, year round.
Yes, we do live in different realities.
In regards to the CD, I have contemplated 1) not being able to withdraw money from a bank, due to lack of transport or government-mandated bank holidays; 2) devaluation of currency rendering 6 months gross income equal to 2 weeks income in purchasing power; 3) extreme penalties and time impositions for early withdrawal from a CD. I have taken what steps I can to work around that, but it would be catastrophic for everyone. More importantly, it is not *outlying*. It is what happens when governments default and devalue.
The OP and Kart’s scenarios are not outlying. They are beyond our *normalcy bias*, that’s all.
I don’t blame you for not wanting to examine the sort of world many of us see approaching. It is intimidating and involves totally reordering one’s world view. I doubt any of us liked the conclusions we reached initially, but, being adaptable, we are making do with what we are being dealt. Denial is just a first stage, there may not be time for anger and depression in an emergency, so it is best, in my view, to get right to acceptance and prepare.
6 months to 2 years of staples for two older adults is not all that much volume. It means less visits to the discount store and more things I can forget about while concentrating on others. These are paper products and prepared foods, toiletries and my husband’s medications that have that long a shelf life. Luckily for us, his doctor is a prepper, a rancher and a realist. Many common meds are now experiencing periods of shortage. Doc has other patients who could use them, if it comes to that. If the emergency period is shorter, then we can help others. The shorter the period, the more we have to share or trade.
Since it is a bridge too far for you, I’ll say good-bye and good luck.
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