Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)

An aide said she did not immediately know why Obama was visiting the residence.

He had to make shure granny never left a birth certificate laying around.

According to Maya she spent from the Monday, November 3rd until Friday cleaning the apartment, before she spent time at a secluded location on the island. Sure would have loved to have been a mouse creeping around to see what went into the garbage dumpster, after someone occupying the apartment for 40 years!

This thread was pulled.

Here’s the cached thread link.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/2151845/posts?page=324.

The Natural Born Vice-Presidency
Unpublished | 20DEC08 | Pieter Nosworthy

Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 2:47:17 AM by Daddynoz

There has been much debate as to the Natural Born Citizen issue. I chose to examine the history of the Presidents (see previous post) and Vice-Presidents and their birthright relevance to the clause. Regardless of whether you consider the term citizen equivalent to the term natural born citizen, historically Presidents and VPs (including Joe Biden) born after the adoption of our Constitution (1787) have met the classical interpretation of a NBC (a citizen born on US territory to two (2) US citizens).

Historical affirmation of the NBC argument… “John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendments first section, considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents NOT owing allegiance to ANY foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN…” If this law was simply to reaffirm the common law doctrine then the condition of the parents would be totally irrelevant.”

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

Many Americans, elected representatives, the courts, the media have committed a de facto reinterpretation of the Constitution to allow Mr. Obama to hold the office of the President despite his acknowledged dual citizenship. Compare Mr. Obama’s history to that of previous office holder’s and decide for yourself.

Barack Hussein Obama II (2009-) Born: August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii. Father- Barack Obama, Sr. was born in Kanyadhiang village, Rachuonyo District, Lake Victoria, Kendu Bay, Kenya (at the time a colony of the British Empire) in 1936. Mother- Stanley Ann Dunham, later know as Ann Dunham Soetoro after divorce from Obama II’s father, was born at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas on November 29, 1942. Father was not a naturalized citizen at the time of his birth. Barack Obama II was born with dual citizenship of the United Kingdom and the United States. Possible adoption by Indonesian father coupled with continuance of Indonesian citizenship as an adult (travel to Pakistan during State Department ban to US citizens, possible US college enrollment as a foreign student) could negate US citizenship or at least imply another dual citizenship. Circumstantial evidence exists Obama II born in Kenya and his parents later registered the birth in Hawaii. If born in Kenya, Obama II is not a US citizen at all due to 1952 statute not allowing mother to convey citizenship due to her age and time residing in United States past the age of 14.

Some of us are wondering, “Why is Mr. Obama entitled to special consideration in accordance with our nation’s highest document?”

FACTS:

There have been 42 Americans that have served as President (not including Mr. Obama). 10 were born before 1787. All those born after 1787, except for Chester Arthur*, met the NBC criteria.

There have been 46 Americans that have served as Vice-President (not including Joe Biden). 10 were born before 1787. All those born after 1787, except for Chester Arthur*, met the NBC criteria. 14 VPs have gone on to be President.

Of the 72 Presidents and VPs born after 1787, ALL (except for Chester Arthur*) have been born on US territory to both parents of US citizenship.

The Vice-Presidents of the United States of America:

John Adams (1789-1797) Born: October 30 1735 in Braintree, Norfolk, Massachusetts.

Thomas Jefferson (1797-1801) Born: April 13, 1743 in Albemarle County, Virginia.

Aaron Burr (1801-1805) Born: February 6, 1756 in Newark, New Jersey.

George Clinton (1805-1809) Born: July 26, 1739 in Little Britain, Ulster (now Orange) County, N.Y.

George Clinton (1809-1812)

none (1812-1813) George Clinton died in office.

Elbridge Gerry (1813-1814) Born: July 17, 1744 in Marblehead, Massachusetts.

none (1814-1817) Elbridge Gerry died in office. . Daniel D. Tompkins (1817-1825) Born: June 21, 1774 in Scarsdale, Westchester County, New York.

John C. Calhoun (1825-1829) Born: March 18, 1782 in McCormick County, South Carolina.

John C. Calhoun (1829-1832)

none (1832-1833) John C. Calhoun resigned from office.

Martin Van Buren (1833-1837) Born: On December 5, 1782 in Columbia, New York.

Richard M. Johnson (1837-1841) Born: October 17, 1780 in newly founded settlement of “Beargrass”, near present-day Louisville, Kentucky.

NBC John Tyler (1841) Born: March 29, 1790 in Charles City County, Virginia Father- John TYLER III was born about 1757 in Charles City, Virginia. Mother- Mary ARMISTEAD was born in 1761 in York Co., Virginia.

none (1841-1845) John Tyler became President upon the death of William Henry Harrison.

NBC George M. Dallas (1845-1849) Born: July 10, 1792 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Father- Alexander J. Dallas was born June 21, 1759 in Kingston, Jamaica. Immigrated to Philadelphia in 1783. Mother- Arabella Maria Smith was born in Pennsylvania on ???.

NBC Millard Fillmore (1849-1850) Born: January 7, 1800 in Cayuga County, New York. Father- Nathaniel Fillmore was born April 19, 1771 in Bennington, Vermont. Mother- Phoebe Millard was born 1780 in Pittsfield, Massachusetts.

none (1850-1853) Millard Fillmore became President upon the death of Zachary Taylor.

William King (1853) Born: April 7, 1786 in Sampson County, North Carolina.

none (1853-1857) William King died in office. . NBC John C. Breckinridge (1857-1861) Born: January 16, 1821 near Lexington, Kentucky. Father- Joseph Cabell Breckinridge was born July 24, 1788 in Fort Monroe, Virginia. Mother- Mary Clay Smith was born August 31, 1787 in ???.

NBC Hannibal Hamlin (1861-1865) Born: August 27, 1809 in Paris, Maine. Father- Cyrus Hamlin was born July 21, 1769 in Pembroke, Mass. Mother- Anna Livermore was born April 6, 1775 in Waltham, Mass.

NBC Andrew Johnson (1865) Born: December 29, 1808 in Raleigh, North Carolina. Father- Jacob Johnson was born circa 1778. Some sources indicate that he was born in Newcastle, England and sailed to America around 1795, but other sources indicate that he was born in Raleigh, North Carolina, and that it was his grandfather (and possible namesake) who sailed to North America from England. Mother- Mary “Polly” McDonough was born 1783 in ??? (possible Irish immigrant). Parents married September 9, 1801. Mother automatically granted citizenship upon marriage, if she was an immigrant, due to naturalization statutes of that period.

none (1865-1869) Andrew Johnson became President upon the death of Abraham Lincoln.

NBC Schuyler Colfax (1869-1873) Born: March 23, 1823 in New York City. Father- Schuyler Colfax, Sr. was born ??? VP Colfax’s paternal grandfather had fought in the American Revolution and served closely with George Washington. Mother- Hannah Stryker was born ???

NBC Henry Wilson (1873-1875) Born: February 16, 1812 in Farmington, New Hampshire. Original name Jeremiah Jones Colbath (changed 1833). Father- Winthrop Colbath, Jr. was born on April 7, 1787 in Farmington, New Hampshire. Mother- Abigail Witham was born on March 21, 1785 in Kittery, York Co ME.

none (1875-1877) Henry Wilson died in office.

NBC William Wheeler (1877-1881) Born: June 30, 1819 in Malone, New York. Father- Almon Wheeler was born ??? Mother- Eliza Woodworth was born ???

Chester Arthur (1881) Born: October 5, 1829 in Fairfield, Vermont. Father- William Arthur, when eighteen years of age, emigrated from Co. Antrim, Ireland. Father did not become a naturalized citizen until 14 years after Chester Arthur’s birth. Mother- Malvina Stone born April 29, 1802 in Berkshire, Franklin, Vermont. Chester Arthur born with dual citizenship of the United Kingdom and the United States. Chester Arthur lied numerous times about his past to obfuscate his ineligibility to hold Vice-Presidential and Presidential office. Burned all personal records upon his death.

none (1881-1885) Chester Arthur became President upon the death of James Garfield.

NBC Thomas Hendricks (1885) Born: September 7, 1819 near East Fultonham, Ohio. Father- John Hendricks was born in Westmoreland County, Pa. in 1791. Mother- Jane Thompson ??? Her family emigrated from Scotland to Pennsylvania before the Revolution.

none (1885-1889) Thomas Hendricks died in office.

NBC Levi P. Morton (1889-1893) Born: May 16, 1824 in Shoreham, Addison County, Vermont. Father- Daniel Oliver Morton was born December 21, 1788 in Winthrop, ME. Mother- Lucretia Parsons was born July 26, 1789 in Goshen, Mass.

NBC Adlai E. Stevenson (1893-1897) Born: October 23, 1835 in Christian County, Kentucky. Father- John Turner Stevenson was born ??? VP Stevenson’s great-grandfather emigrated from Scotland around 1748, settling first in Pennsylvania and then in North Carolina. Mother- Eliza Anne Ewing was born October 20, 1809 in Statesville, Irdell Co., NC.

NBC Garret Hobart (1897-1901) Born: June 3, 1844 in Long Branch, New Jersey. Father- Addison Willard Hobart was born September 1, 1819 in Columbia, Coos Co, New Hampshire. Mother- Sophia Vanderveer was born 7 February 7, 1819 at Freehold, Monmouth Co, New Jersey.

NBC Theodore Roosevelt (1901) Born: October 27, 1858 in New York, New York. Father- Theodore Roosevelt, Sr. was born September 22, 1831 in the state of New York. Mother- Mittie Bulloch was born in Hartford, Connecticut on July 8, 1835.

none (1901-1905) Theodore Roosevelt became President upon the death of William McKinley.

NBC Charles Fairbanks (1905-1909) Born: May 11, 1852 near Unionville Center, Ohio. Father- Loriston Fairbanks was born 1824 in ??? Lineage to Jonathan Flayerbanks (Fairbanks), a passenger on the Speedwell from Holland, reached the American colonies with the Mayflower Pilgrims. Mother- Mary Adelaide Smith was born ???

NBC James S. Sherman (1909-1912) Born: October 24, 1855 in Utica, New York. Father- Richard Updike Sherman was born June 26, 1819 in Vernon, Oneida, NY. Mother- Mary Frances Sherman was born September 3, 1822 in Utica, Oneida, NY.

none (1912-1913) James S. Sherman died in office.

NBC Thomas R. Marshall (1913-1921) Born: March 14, 1854, North Manchester, Ind. Father- Daniel Marshall was born ??? Mother- Martha A. Patterson was born ??? She belonged to the same family as John Carroll, of Carrollton, who was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.

NBC Calvin Coolidge (1921-1923) Born: July 4, 1872 in Plymouth, Vermont. Father- John Calvin Coolidge was born on November 30, 1845 in Plymouth, Windsor Co., VT. Mother- Victoria Josephine Moor was born on March 14, 1846 in Plymouth, Windsor Co., VT.

none (1923-1925) Calvin Coolidge became President upon the death of Warren G. Harding.

NBC Charles Dawes (1925-1929) Born: August 27, 1865 in Marietta, Washington County, Ohio. Father- Rufus Robinson Dawes was born July 4, 1838 in Malta, Ohio. Mother- Mary Beman Gates was born August 27, 1842 in Marietta, Ohio.

NBC Charles Curtis (1929-1933) Born: January 25, 1860 in Topeka, Kansas Territory. Father- Orren Curtis was born June 23, 1829 at Eugene,Vermillion County, Indiana. Mother- Ellen Pappan was born in 1840 at Kaw Indian Reservation, Oklahoma Territory.

NBC John Nance Garner (1933-1941) Born: November 22, 1868 near Detroit, Red River County, Texas. Father- John Nance Garner III was born October 11, 1844 at Rutherford County, Tennessee. Mother- Sarah Jane Guest was born May 30, 1851 at Detroit, Red River, Texas.

NBC Henry A. Wallace (1941-1945) Born: October 7, 1888 near Orient, Adair County, Iowa. Father- Henry Cantwell Wallace was born May 11, 1866 in Rock Island, Illinois. Mother- Carrie May Brodhead was born ??? in Muscatine, IA.

NBC Harry S Truman (1945) Born: May 8, 1884 in Lamar, Missouri. Father- John Anderson Truman was born on December 5, 1851 in Jackson County, Missouri. Mother- Martha Ellen Young was born on November 25, 1852 in Jackson County, Missouri.

none (1945-1949) Harry Truman became President upon the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

NBC Alben Barkley (1949-1953) Born: November 24, 1877 near Lowes, Graves County, Kentucky. Father- John Wilson Barkley was born ??? Presumably a native of North Carolina. Mother- Electra Eliza Smith was born ??? Presumably a native of Kentucky.

NBC Richard Nixon (1953-1961) Born: January 9, 1913 in Yorba Linda, California. Father- Francis A. Nixon was born in Vinton County, Ohio on December 3, 1879. Mother- Hannah Milhous was born in Jennings County, Indiana on March 7, 1885.

NBC Lyndon B. Johnson (1961-1963) Born: August 27, 1908 near Stonewall, Texas. Father- Samuel Ealy Johnson, Jr. was born in Buda, Texas on October 11, 1877. Mother- Rebekah Baines was born on June 26, 1881, at McKinney, Texas.

none (1963-1965) Lyndon Johnson became President upon the death of John F. Kennedy.

NBC Hubert Humphrey (1965-1969) Born: May 27, 1911 in Wallace, Codington County, South Dakota. Father- Hubert Humphrey, Sr. was born in 1882 in Harrisburg (Linn), OR. Mother- Ragnild Kristine Sannes was born August 24, 1883 in Norway. Married April 16, 1906. She automatically acquired citizenship upon marriage as per the naturalization statutes of the period.

NBC Spiro Agnew (1969-1973) Born: November 9, 1918 in Baltimore, Maryland. Father- Theodore Spiros Agnew was born September 25, 1878 in Gargaliani, Greece. Emigrated to US in 1897. Mother- Margaret Akers was born in Virginia circa 1884.

none (1973) Spiro Agnew resigned from office.

NBC Gerald Ford (1973-1974) Born: July 14, 1913 in Omaha, Nebraska. Father- Leslie Lynch King, Sr. was born in Chadron, Nebraska on July 25, 1884. Mother- Dorothy Ayer Gardner was born in Harvard, Illinois on February 27, 1892.

none (1974) Gerald Ford became President upon the resignation of Richard Nixon.

NBC Nelson Rockefeller (1974-1977) Born: July 8, 1908 in Bar Harbor, Maine. Father- John Davison Rockefeller, Jr. was born January 29, 1874 in Cleveland, Ohio. Mother- Abigail “Abby” Greene Aldrich was born October 26, 1874 in Providence, Rhode Island.

NBC Walter Mondale (1977-1981) Born: January 5, 1928 in Ceylon, Minnesota. Father- Theodore Sigvaard Mondale was born January 25, 1876 in Minnesota. Mother- Claribel Hope Cowan was born May 1, 1892 in Pringhar, Iowa.

NBC George Bush (1981-1989) Born: June 12, 1924 in Milton, Massachusetts. Father- Prescott Sheldon Bush was born in Columbus, Ohio on May 15, 1895. Mother- Dorothy Wear Walker was born near Walker’s Point, in York County, Maine on July 1, 1901.

NBC Dan Quayle (1989-1993) Born: February 4, 1947 in Indianapolis, Ind. Father- James Cline Quayle was born May 25, 1921 in Joliet, Ill. Mother- Martha Corinne Pulliam was born June 22, 1922 in Franklin, Ind.

NBC Al Gore (1993-2001) Born: March 31, 1948 in Washington, D.C. Father- Albert Arnold Gore, Sr. was born December 26, 1907 in Granville, Jackson Co., Tenn. Mother- Pauline LaFon was born in 1913 in Weakley Co., Tenn.

NBC Dick Cheney (2001- ) Born: January 30, 1941 in Lincoln, Neb. Father- Richard Herbert Cheney was born June 26, 1915 in Nebraska. Mother- Marjorie Lorraine Dickey was born January 8, 1918 in Nebraska.

NBC Joseph Biden (2009-) Born: November 20, 1942 in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Father- Joseph Robinette Biden Sr was born November 13, 1915 in Baltimore, Md. Mother- Catherine Eugenia “Jean” Finnegan was born July of 1917 in Scranton, Pa.

* http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/urgent-historical-breakthrough-proof-chester-arthur-concealed-he-was-a-british-subject-at-birth/

Good reference for citizenship matrix http://theobamafile.com/NaturalBornCitizenChart2.htm

Great reference for natural born citizen http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

In the few hours I had to put this together I have come up short finding certain dates and locations of birth for some of the VP’s parents. If you have knowledge of better information, I’d appreciate your sending it to me. Thanks.

hard to see why the thread was pulled.

here’s the leftover comments for archiving

To: nominal
Morning nominal, what’s up?

301 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:02:55 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Daddynoz
Fair enough. We all say (and post) unjudicious things at times.

302 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:07:15 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Citizen Blade
Thanks. Was there any consensus as to whether Mr. Obama was a space alien and eats babies?

303 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:09:09 AM by Daddynoz
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To: nominal
There is no law and no case that says a dual citizen at birth is a natural born citizen, because he’s not.
There is no law saying that dual citizenship prevents one from qualifying as a NBC. If you want to disqualify people from being NBC, you can’t rely on the law’s silence to do so- you need to show where the law affirmatively disqualifies dual citizens from NBC status.

You are the one alleging that the law bans dual citizens from qualifying for NBC status. The onus is on you to show such provision in the law.

304 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:11:42 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Daddynoz
Dunno about the space alien thing. But, we probably agree that he is naive, a socialist and a corrupt Chicago politician who may be the most unprepared, inexperienced President, ever.

305 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:13:29 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Daddynoz
Hey.. more of the same nonsense apparently :)

Ya know, I was reading about Arthur and his presidency... I think Donofrio is on to something about justice Gray. Seems he misrepresented previous rulings to shoe-horn in Wong Kim Ark. Funny how Arthurs’ first executive order was a salute to the queen of england too.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=69125

lol what a coincidence, just in time for the yorktown centennial

306 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:14:09 AM by nominal
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To: Citizen Blade
You are confusing criminal justice jurisdiction with citizenship jurisdiction, there is a profound difference.

By trying to criminally gain citizenship Illegals are not submitting to US citizenship jurisdiction they are circumventing it for their own purposes. Such actions are tantamount to theft of American rights, freedoms, and protection under our laws.

Try doing the same thing in Mexico.

307 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:14:35 AM by usmcobra
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To: Citizen Blade
No, you have it backwards. You need a law that states a dual citizen is synonymous with natural born citizen... To simply assume that he is the same, is to IGNORE the dual citizenship as if it does not exist. It does exist, and there is a difference.

There will never be one, because they can’t re-write the constitution... can’t simply cross out natural born citizen and pencil in something else. At best, an amendment could be written to allow for such a thing, but it would be un-Constitutional.

308 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:18:19 AM by nominal
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To: Citizen Blade
Of course Illegals unilaterally ignore our jurisdiction and they do so at their own peril like a thief in the night, knowing that if they are caught they can be deported, imprisoned or both.

The reality is that they are rarely punished because of how lax our laws have become on this issue.

Step number one must be preventing the flagrant abuse of our jurisdiction by illegal aliens

309 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:20:42 AM by usmcobra
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To: Citizen Blade
“There is no law saying that dual citizenship prevents one from qualifying as a NBC. If you want to disqualify people from being NBC, you can’t rely on the law’s silence to do so- you need to show where the law affirmatively disqualifies dual citizens from NBC status.

You are the one alleging that the law bans dual citizens from qualifying for NBC status. The onus is on you to show such provision in the law.”

1. My next project is to research past elections and note candidates that were removed from the ballot for NBC ineligibility.

2. There is no “law” regarding NBC, unfortunately, only OPINIONS by the framers, legal scholars, representatives, and members of the court. Hence, the necessity of the USSC to remove the ambiguity of the current challenge.

3. I’d appreicate your acknoledging the historical precedence of previous POTUS/VPOTUS. In the absence of a statute, a rule has been expected and applied.

310 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:21:19 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Citizen Blade
“But, we probably agree that he is naive, a socialist and a corrupt Chicago politician who may be the most unprepared, inexperienced President, ever.”

Roger that. Though he still might eat babies.

311 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:22:48 AM by Daddynoz
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To: trumandogz
Your argument still violates Occham’s Razor. Why should his mom go to all that trouble when she can just get a CoLB from Hawaii and pretend he was born there? I realize this may be a bit too much for you to comprehend, but if you try, little trooper, you can do it.

312 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:22:58 AM by Kevmo ( It’s all over for this Country as a Constitutional Republic. ~Leo Donofrio, 12/14/08)
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To: nominal
The Arthur saga is ironic. Who would of thunk that it would come to light just as hitory is about to repeat itself?

313 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:24:48 AM by Daddynoz
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To: little jeremiah
There’s room in the big tent for us doofuses, doofi, whatever. Ping me when you’re ready...

314 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:25:05 AM by Kevmo ( It’s all over for this Country as a Constitutional Republic. ~Leo Donofrio, 12/14/08)
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To: Daddynoz
I’d appreicate your acknoledging the historical precedence of previous POTUS/VPOTUS. In the absence of a statute, a rule has been expected and applied.
I don’t agree with you on this point, either. It’s true that all past Presidents (except Chester Arthur) were born to two citizen parents. But, that does not create any sort of legal precedent. Every POTUS/VPOTUS except Kennedy has been a Protestant. Every POTUS/VPOTUS except Obama has been white. Every POTUS/VPOTUS has been male. In the absence of a statute saying otherwise, do you consider these historical precedents as a rule as to who can, and cannot, serve as President?

315 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:27:36 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: nominal
No, you have it backwards. You need a law that states a dual citizen is synonymous with natural born citizen
Following that logic, you’d need a law specifically allowing people with brown hair to qualify as NBC. Are you saying that the only things we are legally allowed to do are things that are specifically approved by the government? How do you square that view with the text of the 10th Amendment?

Could Congress disqualify dual citizens from NBC status? That’s probably a discussion for another day. But, they have not done so and there is nothing in the Constitution, as plainly written, that does so, either.

316 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:33:38 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Citizen Blade
Obviously, you are good citizen who places his faith in the law (no more, no less than what the statute provides for). Here’s the rub, the historical application and adherence was in CONTEXT to NBC expectation as proscribed in the Constitution (i.e. no mention of males, protestants, property owners, etc.). Your doubt in the veracity of my argument is good cause for the courts to decide the matter. Without their discovery of a shared truth...I don’t know what it means to our republic. As a Soldier, I’d appreciate the peace of mind as to whether my CIC can render a “lawful order”. Oh well.

317 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:33:51 AM by Daddynoz
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To: nominal
You seriously picked Wong Kim Ark? You’re dumber than I thought.
Not only did I choose to reference it, I actually went out and read the decision. If only you would do the same.

Go read Minor vs Happersett, which was cited by justice Gray...and recognize that these cases didn’t have to deal directly with the natural born citizen clause, because they weren’t running for president.

Happersett didn’t deal with the natural born citizenship clause, except in dicta, because it wasn’t part of the case. However, the Chief Justice did note that the question of whether the citizenship of the parents decided natural born status was open to question, and that it was not the responsibility of the court to settle the question in this particular case. Well, along comes the Ark case and they do settle the matter. Children born in the U.S. are natural born citizens, even if their parents are foreign nationals.

...who was appointed by Chester Aurthur, btw...

And the Donofrio conspiracy kicks into high gear.

But it is nonetheless clear, from these cases, that a natural born citizen is someone born here of TWO citizen parents, and in fact, these cases do more to cast doubt on whether Obama even qualifies as a citizen or native citizen, as he so boldly claims, than anything else.

Nonsense. Justice Gray stated the following: “The fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in the declaration that ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside,’ contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two only - birth and naturalization. Citizenship by naturalization can only be acquired by naturalization under the authority and in the forms of law. But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.” That would include Obama.

There is no law and no case that says a dual citizen at birth is a natural born citizen, because he’s not.

There is no law defining what exactly a natural born citizen is. There is no law saying that there are three classes of citizenship. There are no laws defining the difference between citizen at birth and natural born citizen. And your trying to make such a difference up is what is really the waste of time.

318 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:43:23 AM by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
I hate to say it, but every case regarding citizenship is just that, citizenship. Unfortunately, there is not one case that specifically addresses NBC. Like I said before, there are only statements, opinions, and historical precedence.

319 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:48:20 AM by Daddynoz
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To: usmcobra
Do they pay income tax? No! Therefore the government doesn’t recognize them as being under our jurisdiction, they are under the protection of special visas which preserve their citizenship in their homelands.
They do, if they’re here in a working capacity under the propert visa. And even if they aren’t, they pay state and local sales taxes, property taxes if they own property, gasoline taxes, every other tax under the sun. So if taxation equals jurisdiction in your eyes, then boy are they under our jurisdiction.

Saying that when they come to our country that their children born here are automatically US citizens is wrong they are not here to become citizen nor are their children.

I’m not the only one saying that. The Supreme Court said that back in 1898.

In the case of illegal aliens here to have anchor babies, the act of disobedience to our immigration laws does not grant them protection under the jurisdiction clause, they chose to illegally have their children here and should not profit by gaining citizenship through an illegal act.

Perhaps it should not. But it does.

In the case of U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898 American citizenship was denied by law to his parents, they had no choice in the matter...

And the Supreme Court ruled that such citizenship could not be denied to their son merely because they were foreign nationals. The child was a citizen at birth of the United States and elegible for all the rights and protections accorded every other natural born citizen. Including the right to be elected president.

...and dare I say it that of his offspring, just like in the case of John McCain where because of treaties we signed with Panama, his father and mother were not forced to give up their citizenship to live there or the US citizenship of the son that was born in Panama.

You are aware that Donofrio’s arguement is that only children born in the U.S. of two U.S. citizen parents are eligible to run for president, aren’t you? That excludes McCain.

The reasons we have treaties and staus of forces agreements is to protect the right of our citizens but you have repeatedly ignored that it is always a two way street, this country affords the same sort of treatment to those that visit here and ensures that their children are not forced to become Americans.

You would have to take that up with the Supreme Court and that pesky 14th Amendment.

320 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:50:49 AM by Non-Sequitur
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To: Daddynoz
Unfortunately, there is not one case that specifically addresses NBC. Like I said before, there are only statements, opinions, and historical precedence.
And all indications are that in the eyes of the law, natural born citizen and citizen at birth are synonymous.

321 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 9:52:08 AM by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
I’d agree with you if it weren’t for the language of Aricle II, the opinions and statements of framers and scholars, and, of course, historical precedence. Something I think we forget is that we as a nation have been very conservative regarding the interpretation of the Constitution. Hence, the prolonged experience of slavery, segregation, suffrage, etc. Though I do not hold with our past oversight, I do agree that there is good cause to exclude some Americans from our highest office due to mixed allegiances at birth. Without the conservative eye towards this issue, we could open a pandora’s box of unknown threats.

322 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:00:23 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Citizen Blade
PERKINS v. ELG, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)
It has long been a recognized principle in this country that if a child born here is taken during minority to the country of his parents’ origin, where his parents resume their former allegiance, he does not thereby lose his citizenship in the United States provided that on attaining majority he elects to retain that citizenship and to return to the United States to assume its duties. 2 [307 U.S. 325, 330] This principle was clearly stated by Attorney General Edwards Pierrepont in his letter of advice to the Secretary of State Hamilton Fish, in Steinkauler’s Case, 1875, 15 Op.Atty.Gen. 15. The facts were these: One Steinkauler, a Prussian subject by birth, emigrated to the United States in 1848, was naturalized in 1854, and in the following year had a son who was born in St. Louis. Four years later Steinkauler returned to Germany taking this child and became domiciled at Weisbaden where they continuously resided. When the son reached the age of twenty years the German Government called upon him to report for military duty and his father then invoked the intervention of the American Legation on the ground that his son was a native citizen of the United States. To an inquiry by our Minister, the father declined to give an assurance that the son would return to this country within a reasonable time. On reviewing the pertinent points in the case, including the Naturalization Treaty of 1868 with North Germany, 15 Stat. 615, the Attorney General reached the following conclusion:

‘Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of twenty-one, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States

Citizen Blade wrote: Even if his father did not meet your (incorrect) definition of subject to the jurisdiction of the US, that doesn’t make a difference when it comes to baby Barrack’s status.

It seems to me that the Steinkauler opinion cited in Elg makes a clear point that the son is “native born” because his father was a naturalized citizen (jurisdiction AND allegiance) at the time of his son’s birth. Obama Sr. was not a citizen, naturalized or otherwise, at the time of his son’s birth, so his son’s “native born” status is certainly questionable. Jurisdiction is one part of the equation, but allegiance is certainly part of it, too - Dad may have been subject to the laws of the U.S., but his allegiance was to Kenya.

323 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:00:38 AM by GizmosAndGadgets (If at first you don’t succeed...)
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To: Citizen Blade
Hair color? Blondes and redheads allowed. Then you say they didn’t exclude grey haired people so they must have meant to include them? Let’s stick to reality and citizenship, please.

There is a law that specifies qualifications for president: 35 year old, 14 year resident, natural born citizens.

You’re ignoring the dual citizenship fact, yet again. You could argue that Congress might be able to define natural born citizen to include dual citizens. Go right ahead. You’re too late.

Even though one could argue it’s Congress’ right to at least try, they have not done so... You’re attempting to redefine words, after the fact.

324 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:03:47 AM by nominal
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To: Non-Sequitur
I asked you for something that said “natural born citizen”, and you come back with “citizen” and try to pass it off as the same as “natural born citizen”.

You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that neither case deals with the presidency, and neither case decided that foreign citizen parents equaled natural born citizen. They could have, but they didn’t.

What else do you want...

325 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:09:12 AM by nominal
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To: GizmosAndGadgets
“Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of twenty-one, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States.”

Something important to note about this case...the boy was born to two (2) US citizens on US territory. The opinion of the court regarded him as “native born” but did not infer any equivelency to NBC. He rightfully noted that he was eligible for POTUS. Other native born Americans born on US territory to parents of irrelevant citizenship do not enjoy the same determination. Though the courts may decide that one (1) parent of US citizenship does meet the NBC criteria. I hope not what with the self defeating nature of dual citizenship. But, you never know.

326 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:10:15 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Non-Sequitur
“And all indications are that in the eyes of the law, natural born citizen and citizen at birth are synonymous.”

You may be right (in another universe *snicker*), but you would hard pressed to find any case or respected opinion to back up that assertion. From my limited research, I have read NOTHING that equivocates the two terms.

327 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:17:52 AM by Daddynoz
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To: nominal
Hair color? Blondes and redheads allowed. Then you say they didn’t exclude grey haired people so they must have meant to include them? Let’s stick to reality and citizenship, please.
You’re missing the point. The rules regarding NBC status work in this way: unless a characteristic of a person specifically excludes them, under an applicable law, from NBC status, then that person qualifies as a NBC. The law doesn’t list dual citizenship as a disqualifying legal factor for NBC status.

There is a law that specifies qualifications for president: 35 year old, 14 year resident, natural born citizens.

So, if someone is 35, a citizen from birth and a 14-year resident of the US, then their dual citizenship makes no difference. The Founding Fathers could have very easily added “and not a citizen or subject of antother nation etc.” to these requirements. But, they didn’t. You’re trying to turn this silence on dual citizenship into proof that dual citizenship is a disqualifying factor. Can’t you see how that does not work, logically?

328 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:19:30 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: GizmosAndGadgets
“...parents of irrelevant citizenship...”

Poorly worded on my part. You get the drift.

329 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:20:25 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Citizen Blade
“The Founding Fathers could have very easily added “and not a citizen or subject of antother nation etc.”

They did, it’s the NBC clause. It was understood by the framers...read Jefferson and Madison.

330 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:23:23 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Citizen Blade
Stop ignoring the facts. “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;”

Your premise, of how the rules regarding NBC status works, requires that words and definitions be flexible and changing, and ignores that what is quoted above does include a -citizen- (non-natural born, at the time), and that Congress has the power to determine the laws for citizenship, e.g. naturalized.

You’re too late. You had to have Congress make a law or amendment stating that from now on, dual citizens at birth, one parent a citizen, one parent not, are to be considered the same as children born with 2 american citizen parents. Additionally, I would argue that Congress cannot Constitutionally blur the line between the obvious difference between 2 american citizen parents, and 1 american and 1 foreigner.

You cannot simply ignore the very obvious differences between the two, nor will you force me to ignore it.

There really aren’t that many possible combinations, and it isn’t all that complicated.

1- Child born in the united states of 2 american citizen parents
2- Child born in the united states of 1 american citizen parent, 1 non-citizen
3- Child born in the united states of 2 non-citizen parents
4- Child not born in the united states of 2 american citizen parents
5- Child not born in the united states of 1 american citizen parent, 1 non
6- Child not born in the united states of 2 non american citizen parents

Then you can have variations on the father and mother and their respective citizenships on #2 and #5. #6 doesn’t count of course.

331 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:38:02 AM by nominal
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To: Citizen Blade
Madison...

“Therefore, we can say with confidence that a natural-born citizen of the United States means those persons born whose father the United States already has an established jurisdiction over, i.e., born to father’s who are themselves citizens of the United States. A person who had been born under a double allegiance cannot be said to be a natural-born citizen of the United States because such status is not recognized (only in fiction of law). A child born to an American mother and alien father could be said to be a citizen of the United States by some affirmative act of law but never entitled to be a natural-born citizen because through laws of nature the child inherits the condition of their father.”

332 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:39:45 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Daddynoz
Interesting- where’d you find that quote?

333 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:42:50 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Citizen Blade
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/11/28/natural-born-citizens-or-how-to-beat-a-subject-to-death-with-a-stick/

Lazy me typed in “jefferson natural born citizen” and that was one of the sites that came up.

334 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:44:49 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Daddynoz
“This post boiled down (again);”
This post answered again.

“1. The NBC clause is in the Constitution. There was an intent (rationale) behind this choice of words.”

The intent was to allow only people who were citizens at birth, not naturalized citizens, to be president.

IT’S 1787, A NEW NATION, WHAT THE H*LL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT “NATURALIZED”? THEIR VISION WENT FAR BEYOND BARON VON STUBEN.

So, your thesis is that the founders had no concept that there would be naturalized citizens? Even though naturalization is also mentioned in the constitution? Interesting.

“2. Mr. Obama is, based upon his own admission, born a British citizen due to his father’s nationality.”
As long as he was born a US citizen this doesn’t matter.

SURE, JUST NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

No. If Obama was born a US citizen, then he is a natural born US citizen. What other countries might also confer citizenship on him at birth has no bearing.

“3. IAW Art. II, ALL the Presidents and Vice-Presidents born after 1787 met the criteria for born on US territory to two (2) US citizens. Except for two (2), Chester Arthur and Barack Obama. Arthur had to lie about it...”
Irrelevent. They were also all white males. That doesn’t mean the constitution requires they be white males.

YOU’RE AN IDIOT. I’D TAKE VEGAS ODDS THAT THE LIKELYHOOD OF EVERY PRES/VP BEING A NBC AS COINCIDENCE AND NOT REFLECTIVE OF AN UNDERSTOOD RULE...
“YOU’RE AN IDIOT”? That’s the best way you have to make your case?

You would lose the bet. BTW, what about the odds that they would all be white males? Since you seem to think all this is decided by chance, those have got to be some long odds too eh?

It’s not a matter of chance. You should expect to find that most people that are able to get elected president are not new immigrants, or even children of new immigrants. What is hard to understand about that?

The way to show some rule enforcement at work here is to document the enforcement. Who was not allowed to be president because both parents weren’t citizens? Name the names. There must be a lot, because you think it is so unlikely to happen otherwise. Prove your argument.

“4. Mr. Obama is absolutely unique in his hubris in that he is a person of admitted dual citizenship. What makes this *ssclown special and entitled to another interpretation of our founding document?”
No other interpretation is involved. It means what it always meant. A “natural born citizen” is someone that was a citizen at birth. If Obama was born in Hawaii, that means him.

YOU’RE AN EVEN BIGGER IDIOT. DON’T HELP YOUR KIDS WITH THEIR HOMEWORK, THEY’LL HATE YOU LATER. OR MAYBE YOUR KIDS TOLD YOU CITIZEN = NBC. I SUGGEST YOU STOP PAYING THEIR ALLOWANCE. THEY’RE MAKING YOU LOOK BAD.
Ooooh, well, who can stand up to logic like that?

335 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:50:36 AM by mlo
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To: nominal
Stop ignoring the facts. “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;”
I’m not sure what you think I’m ignoring. That passage makes no mention of dual citizenship being a disqualifier for NBC status.

Your premise, of how the rules regarding NBC status works, requires that words and definitions be flexible and changing, and ignores that what is quoted above does include a -citizen- (non-natural born, at the time

At the time, there were no natural-born citizens who qualified for the Presidency as none of them were 35 with 14 years of residency. That portion of the provision was necessary for that reason. But, the category of American citizens who were not naturalized citizens but not natural-born citizens, either, is a historical oddity arising from the fact that, at independence, almost every American citizen had been born in a place that was not, at the time of their birth, the US. Today, there are no people who fall into that category- all American citizens are either naturalized (not qualified to be President) or citizens from birth (who are).

and that Congress has the power to determine the laws for citizenship, e.g. naturalized.

Congress has not done anything to exclude dual citizens from serving as President.

336 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:50:36 AM by Citizen Blade (”A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy” -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Taxation is but one example of jurisdiction, and you didn’t even try to prove that foreign students on visas pay income tax, (I’ve already researched it) but here’s another, are foreign students here on visas entitled to social security or welfare?

Again a question of submitting to US jurisdiction, the rights of our citizens go beyond our laws defining criminality, I say that submitting to the Jurisdiction of the United States has certain right only citizens should be able to enjoy, those that refuse to submit to that jurisdiction by treaty (via diplomatic or student visa) are exempt from the 14th amendment. Those that illegals enter this country with the criminal purpose of usurping those certain rights illegally have no claim to them or their offspring.

Our country’s laws do provide for children abandoned inside it’s borders whose nationality are unknown, it grants them full citizenship automatically, but there is a world of difference between a foundling and anchor baby. Anchor babies are criminal tools use to bypass our immigration procedures and laws and exploit that jurisdiction clause in the 14th amendment placed there to protect the definition of citizenship.

337 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:50:44 AM by usmcobra
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To: mlo
Yeah, well, about that...not my finest hour. I apologize.

338 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:53:12 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Citizen Blade
“Congress has not done anything to exclude dual citizens from serving as President.”

They have done anything to inlude them, either. Boy, I hope the courts chime in soon.

339 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:55:45 AM by Daddynoz
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To: Daddynoz
...if I could get everyone at FR to agree you’re a dumb*ss, would it be true?
Well, since that seems to be your principle line of argument it’s nice to see you concede it is flawed.

340 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 10:57:09 AM by mlo
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To: mlo
“...everyone at FR to agree you’re a dumb*ss...”

No doubt many folks think I am...like I asked Citizen Blade, is there any consensus that Mr. Obama is a space alien that eats babies?

341 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 11:00:42 AM by Daddynoz
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To: mlo
“...it’s nice to see you concede it is flawed.”

Not flawed, not conceded, just poorly defended.

342 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 11:04:02 AM by Daddynoz
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The first thread has been pulled.

Read my first sentence.

I’d double post this but then it’s just pure snarkiness.

here. I’ve added the word repository in the keywords...It should help us find it...It’ is already in the archives.

I’ve added archives and obama archives .. ;)

25 May 2008

ME AND OBAMA’S MAMA

The other night I was talking with a friend about what we’d like to do if we weren’t writers. There isn’t much. I love what I do.

But I did mention that I used to know someone in Indonesia who had the greatest job that I ever heard of.

I met *Ann Sutoro* when I was working for Asian Business magazine and interviewing people for a cover story on what the private sector can do to help alleviate poverty.

She was an economic anthropologist working for Bank Rakyat Indonesia, the rural development bank of the country. She was in charge of the bank’s microfinance program.

From her office in Jakarta, Ann would pick out an impoverished village somewhere in the country. She’d travel there, spend several weeks getting to know the place, getting to know the movers and shakers in the village, who had the brightest entrepreneurial spirit, the best ideas. About 95% of the time the people she came up with were women. Then she’d go back to Jakarta and write up a report.

Loaning this woman US$70 would enable her to get a small refrigerator for her food stall, and among other things she could then stock medicine for curing river blindness in kids.

Another woman could use 40 bucks to buy some equipment to better husk rice, so there’d be less waste and she could build up her business.

For 65, yet another woman could get a second loom for weaving cloth and expand her business. It was all little loans, but it meant big improvements in the lives of whole villages. (And the default rates on the loans was much lower than it was on the big loans other banks made to corporations or wealthy individuals.)

Ann would write up her report, get the money from the bank, then return to the village to dispense the loans. She got to play fairy godmother to hundreds, maybe thousands of people. And best of all it wasn’t charity. She was simply helping them to help themselves.

I liked her, a lot, the moment I met her. We became friendly and for several years, whenever I was in Jakarta I’d give her a call.

We’d have a drink, a meal, hang out talking in her beautiful house in Jakarta. She had a great, quirky, sense of humor, was kind and decent to a fault and was just plain whip smart, one of the sharpest people I’ve ever known. I envied her her job, admired her tremendously and always looked forward to seeing her.

She died of cancer in 1995 and it was a tremendous loss. I’ve thought of her often over the years.

Whenever the subject of great things to do with one’s life comes up, I always trot out the story of Ann Sutoro. Because of her, if I ever went back to school, it would be to study economic anthropology. (Easy to say, though, not much real risk of that.)

Today, I was trying to think up a subject for this blog entry and I was thinking about my conversation of the other night. I thought I’d write about a few of the world’s best jobs, so Ann immediately popped into my head.

Just for the hell of it, I googled her, not really expecting to find much, if anything. What I found out is that she was Barack Obama’s mother.

There’s much that I like and admire about Obama. But, as with all politicians, there is also much about him that makes me suspicious and nervous. But I do know one thing for sure. He comes from a very good family. At least on his mother’s side.

posted by Eric at 4:36 PM

http://www.ericstone.com/2008/05/me-and-obamas-mama.html

Truth or fiction ?

~~~~

More stuff:

##3

http://odisky.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-is-stanley-ann-dunham-soetoro.html

Snippet:

Years later Obama saw the film with his mother and thought about walking out. But looking at her in the theater, he glimpsed her 16-year-old self.

“I suddenly realized,” he wrote in his memoir, Dreams from My Father, “that the depiction of childlike blacks I was now seeing on the screen ... was what my mother had carried with her to Hawaii all those years before, a reflection of the simple fantasies that had been forbidden to a white middle-class girl from Kansas, the promise of another life, warm, sensual, exotic, different.”

*snip*

She took a big job as the program officer for women and employment at the Ford Foundation, and she spoke up forcefully at staff meetings.

Unlike many other expats, she had spent a lot of time with villagers, learning their priorities and problems, with a special focus on women’s work. “She was influenced by hanging out in the Javanese marketplace,” Zurbuchen says, “where she would see women with heavy baskets on their backs who got up at 3 in the morning to walk to the market and sell their produce.”

Ann thought the Ford Foundation should get closer to the people and further from the government, just as she had.

*snip*

Ann’s most lasting professional legacy was to help build the microfinance program in Indonesia, which she did from 1988 to ‘92—before the practice of granting tiny loans to credit-poor entrepreneurs was an established success story.

Her anthropological research into how real people worked helped inform the policies set by the Bank Rakyat Indonesia, says Patten, an economist who worked there. “I would say her work had a lot to do with the success of the program,” he says.

Today Indonesia’s microfinance program is No. 1 in the world in terms of savers, with 31 million members, according to Microfinance Information eXchange Inc., a microfinance-tracking outfit.

Today, I was trying to think up a subject for this blog entry and I was thinking about my conversation of the other night. I thought I’d write about a few of the world’s best jobs, so Ann immediately popped into my head.
Just for the hell of it, I googled her, not really expecting to find much, if anything. What I found out is that she was Barack Obama’s mother.

Help! There's an elephant in my living room, think I will Google it and see who it belongs to...LOL!

Thanks for the info!

Amazing how quickly nearly 7,000 comments were posted

BTT.

DOCUMENT LINKS FOR THE RECORD:

http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf

http://wikileaks.org/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf

http://webofdeception.com/obamamother’sssapplication.html

Maya marriage application:

http://i39.tinypic.com/14bkvgn.jpg

DOCUMENT LINK FOR THE RECORD:

http://www.plainsradio.com/obama1.html

Obama Snr - Stanley Ann Divorce Doc.

for the record:

DECLARATION OF SANDRA LINES.

Forensic Document Examiner

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/executedsandralinesdeclaration_1.pdf

Archiving this incredibly poorly researched article about the church where the memorial service was held for Madelyn Dunham December 23,2008.
Jr must be more of a magician than we ever thought to be able to attend the Unitarian Church in HI when he was living in Indonesia between the ages of 6 & 10!Article here for now, but it will probably disappear soon.

http://www.starbulletin.com/business/20090106_Isle_church_honored_by_Obamas_visit.html?page=all&c=y

Isle church honored by Obama’s visit
A pastor reminds the president-elect that he went to Sunday school at First Unitarian

By Pat Gee

POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Jan 06, 2009

(Single Page View) | Return to Paginated View
The Rev. Mike Young managed to keep a secret for three weeks: President-elect Barack Obama would be honoring his beloved grandmother at Young’s church in Nuuanu.
Young, pastor of the First Unitarian Church of Honolulu, could only tell his wife and a handful of church administrators that a small, private service was planned for Madelyn Payne Dunham on Dec. 23.

“It was very hard to keep this secret. ... The fun part was working with the Secret Service folk to make it happen,” he said.

The woman who helped raise Obama died two days before he was elected president in November.

Young said he was not overly surprised or nervous, “just excited,” when he first got a call from Borthwick Mortuary three weeks before the service was to be held.

It all made sense.

Young said Obama’s book “Dreams from My Father” mentioned that he “went to Sunday school here when he was between 6 and 10, around that time.” Also, “our church is easy to control from a security point of view,” he added.

The church, a renovated historic home, has a second-floor wrap-around deck that overlooks the entire property and Pali Highway.

Access to the property, located at the corner of Niolopa Street and the entrance to a cul-de-sac, was easy to monitor, and there were only two homes nearby, Young said.

The first couple of appointments with the Secret Service were interrupted by Obama’s spur-of-the-moment activities, like running off to Sea Life Park with his girls.

“The place had to be searched from top to bottom,” he said. “Every nook and cranny, every cobweb was checked!” Bomb-sniffing dogs were called in, he said.

On the day of the service, four sharpshooters dressed in full body armor positioned themselves on the roof, and Secret Service agents stood watch every 30 to 40 feet around the perimeter.

“The biggest problem of the day turned out to be our limited restroom facilities. There were long lines of ladies outside both of them,” he said.

When Young reminded Obama that he had attended Sunday school at First Unitarian, “his eyes lit up, and he said, ‘Oh, that’s right!’” No records can be found that Dunham was a member of the church, or of how regularly Obama attended, but Young said the Unitarian church is not renowned for its record-keeping.

Young was proud that the church was a place away from public and media scrutiny where some 18 friends and family members could share “their deep and intimate relationship with a person who had influence on their lives.” With an emphasis on “storytelling,” the service was marked not by grief, but joy, he said.

His impression of Obama: “He was just a relaxed, tall, skinny kid, nothing presidential about him. He was chatty and relaxed, probably not something he gets an awful lot of chance to be.”

Obama’s half sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, helped plan the service, selecting the spiritual passages that he would deliver, said Young, who “had no idea of Madelyn’s idea of God.”

In his opening prayer, he read a poem by Raymond J. Baughan, which begins, “We belong to the eternal here and now.” It concludes:

Some call it life, some God,

It is called by many names and no name.

There is a oneness to which we belong

And from which we have emerged.

The Rev. Mike Young managed to keep a secret for three weeks: President-elect Barack Obama would be honoring his beloved grandmother at Young’s church in Nuuanu.

Young, pastor of the First Unitarian Church of Honolulu, could only tell his wife and a handful of church administrators that a small, private service was planned for Madelyn Payne Dunham on Dec. 23.