Posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by fabian
Now celebrating 52 years of helping people on the radio! For over half a century Roy Masters has been helping people overcome their most difficult problems. As the nation’s first and longest running radio counselor, Roy Masters has advised callers with a unique ability to hear inner problems, heal fears and sexual stresses, and help people take charge of their own lives. Great show and exactly what the world needs! Here is a radio show stations page... http://www.fhu.com/radiostations.html
And JR as well!
If they did, you'd brush it away.
The Scripture writers left out the obvious...
Mary: "What, Lord? Just HOW do I do THAT?"
Jesus: "It was a test to see if anyone was paying attention. Of course you can't; that's why I came: to be your Savior."
JR?
Excellent post!! Once again a well studied and inspired clarification of truth! Keep up the good work daniel1212!
>I did ask you to use your own words because your mind is a master at using scripture...<
To refute that which is not Scriptural, as the sword of the Spirit does that, and and you remind me of a moonie one time who took and held my bible above my head so that i could not quote it to him anymore.
As for the women in Jn. 8:11 being told to “sin no more,” of course that is commanded, as this is nothing new but men have been commanded to “cease to do evil” (Is. 1:16), long before that, and all are, but which does not teach that those so commanded no longer, sin, as all have sinned (and it appears the man in Jn. 5:14 did, who also was also told “sin no more.”
And neither this man nor the women in Jn. 8 were born again, (Jn. 7:39) while it has been indisputably shown that Christians sinned even after they were born again, while context and language does not support any text teaching that they do not, or that being born again is achieved thru the process of Masters type of meditations, resulting in attaining a sinless life, rather than being an event that occurs when one hears and believes the gospel of Scripture, which usually was in the same hour, and which begins growth in grace toward perfection.
Thus you must resort to repeating refuted assertions as arguments, and disallowing exegetical Scriptural reproof as being of our own mind, when in reality you are not supposed to attain understanding by exegetical Scriptural investigation, but rest upon your cultic esoteric revelation as holy. And which no amount of Scriptural correction can be allowed to correct, as is the case with other cults.
One of the fruits of which are such gems as “You can never teach the difference between right and wrong—only can you discover it by searching in experience.” “If a dog had tempted Adam to fall, he “would have had sexual
feeling toward that dog.” (http://www.theworldviewcenter.org/encyclopedia_foundationforhumanunderstanding.html)
Oh my gosh...Jesus would leave out such an important thing and others like John also saying to sin no more after being reborn....that is really lame.
Affirmative action salvation~ when you have not found nor even believe the true power of what Jesus did for the world; to have total freedom over sin...so you water down the message and lower the standard of salvation. That way you make other poor souls who have also not found full freedom, you allow them to feel better about continuing in their sin state. The teachers who propagate this lie are blind and shame on all of them. How dare they water down the power of our lord’s victory in order to assuage themselves and the masses!
You are so compromised in is ridiculous. Jesus would never have given that command unless he KNEW she could fulfill it. Otherwise he is creating in her even more conflict of not being able to obey the master. Jesus NEVER taught that we would still sin...ever!
Thank God for what helps. But under Masters, the responsibility for what you may be doing wrong this very moment passes to God... Not only does the guilt of your sin pass from you, but so does the sin.168
And,
Salvation is only a basic step leading to rebirth. You are first “saved” from the [world] system through your attitude; a different state of consciousness then exists, which sets your soul apart from the sin world; in effect, you are in the world, but you are not of it. The very last stage of the salvation process if rebirth. The reborn man in turn is then ready for translation. (How to Conquer Suffering Without Doctors, pp. 170-171)
And a word for your family and church,
You had better be careful about being too close to people. Romantic or emotional closeness inspires animal feelings for your daughter, son, dog or cat. Closeness is not love; it is evil use. (Sex, Sin and Salvation, p. 281)
Indeed, while God uses men, our trust is in the Lord.
“It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in princes. “ (Psalms 118:8-9)
Yet God uses men tp preach his word, not as assuredly infallible but as subject to Scripture, but Masters, in exalting himself, states, “Damn all the hellfire-and-damnation preachers.122
If you need the church you’re not well.129
The Church is supposed to teach you to go within yourself and to be a whole person and not need the Church.130
Through true belief you acquire a new nature from within that does not require any external reinforcement by church attendance, study or ritual—ever.131 (his emphasis)
The whole process of growing is not from words but from realizing and then you can throw your Bible in the garbage can and there’s no sin in that.137
“Faith is having trust in a knowing without knowing why you know. Belief is knowing that you know.”163
Until true faith and true knowing are restored, the standard of measuring anything is lost.262 - http://www.theworldviewcenter.org/encyclopedia_foundationforhumanunderstanding.html
“Anyone who thinks he no longer sins is disconnected from reality and has no idea of the depths we are in,all of us.As I’ve said before,this is akin to standing on the surface of the sun expecting to cast a shadow.”
Really? Well, take that up with John. He meant what he said clearly and there is no crafty interpretation needed. Stop making excuses for your own lack of finding the real power of Jesus.
1 John 3:9, which reads, “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.”
and don’t you dare add a word, (practice), in there as these dumbskulls “Christian teachers” have done. What a bunch of baloney and so obviously made up.
Let me ask you this, fabian, what is YOUR definition of "sin"? You claim you are free from it, you never do it, and anyone who is a "real" Christian is sinless as well. So it really begs the question, what is sin? Do we go by the Bible's (Jesus') definition or Roy Masters' or yours? Really, what is the standard for saying what is or is not sin? I think this would help in understanding what exactly you are trying to propose here.
You are making yourself look increasingly foolish. God always forbade sin, and thus according to your logic no believer ever would sin! But while God must uphold His standard, he knows man will sin and thus he provided forgiveness, and grace for overcoming sin. And thus man one can characteristically live in victory, at least as regards knowingly sinning. Old time holiness Pentecostalism testifies to “entire sanctification” when one dies out to self in surrender to Christ, He being at home in them, (Eph. 3:14-17) and realizes a second work of grace in deliverance from the overt striving of the flesh, which i seek if it can be obtained, but which belief does not claim such no longer sin.
And which is only one aspect of your error, as it includes teaching that attaining this sinless walk occurs when one becomes born again, which, rather than being the beginning of growth in grace, is set forth as end of a stages of growth thru Masters type of meditation, so that “Salvation is only a basic step leading to rebirth,” “The very last stage of the salvation process is rebirth.” (How to Conquer Suffering Without Doctors, pp. 170-171)
And as Scripture is not the supreme judge, but Masters’ type of subjective “understanding” is, then whether a disciple of Masters sins is a matter of this esoteric judgment, and with God being responsible for what you may be doing wrong.
Thus as much as you attempt to focus on Christians not sinning, which some other who claim to be orthodox Christians hold to, not only is it incontrovertible that believers were born again at the beginning of their growth in grace by faith in the Scriptural, and that they sinned after that, but your error extends to far more than that, even to your unScriptural basis for determining truth, the other errors being a product of that.
Well, firstly there was pride from which the original sin entered...Adam wanting more than what the Father offered and believing the devil’s lies. Then came denial and blaming Eve...she gave me the apple.
So when our sin nature, or pride nature...man playing God which I had plenty of, is cleansed away, there simply is left only the desire to do right in each moment. No more annoyances which build up into anger and rage. Not that those irritations and impatiences do not come to mind at times, but somehow there is the power to allow them to pass. The bible says aptly, “through patience possess ye your souls”. There in is the key and is very much the center of forgiveness and what Roy teaches. Because along with pride, is the resentments in order to try to assuage our guilt for being a bit separate from God. Anger makes the world turn around and most people operate with those little irritations as an energy source. The more we let those pass, the more we notice and feel God’s love and kindness/ strength move us. Then it becomes more and more natural to treat others as we would like them to treat us, which Jesus said is the core of the law; as well as loving our God with all of our hearts and souls. That is the long answer but pretty accurate.
For me now, that is a way of life and after living like 7 years in a deep depression and almost killing myself, I am so happy and free, much like when I was very young. I have been given the gift of freedom, but I am a servant of the most wonderful now and never would want anything else because there is nothing like it! All of my former drug usage, pornography addiction, weakness to appease people, over eating, all of it was for pleasure...but they all pale in comparison to the joy that God gives me daily. My life honestly feels like a constant vacation even when I am working. I do get physically tired at times, but the happiness is ever present. No cause to worry ever too, because it just is taken away whenever it appears at all in my mind. And all of this is not an effort at all for me. It is a gift for my praying silently daily for many many years and for not judging as I used to very much so. Jesus did tell us judge not lest ye be judged..so this is a stipulation in order to be given the gift...but He gives us the power to do that.
..”and thus according to your logic no believer ever would sin!”..not at all because even believers in their formative understandings still sin. We have to be saved from that sin but the darkness that inhabits almost all of us needs to be cleaned out which is done in prayer. First we believe, then we discipline ourselves with God’s help and pray silently..because God already knows what we need...then through patience we possess, or the evil gets dispossessed and there is only our souls and the holy spirit left! Shazam! No more compulsion to sin! Still some moderate temptations from the devil, but no a new power to let them pass by! I know of what I speak..been living it for about 5 years now.
>and don’t you dare add a word, (practice), in there as these dumbskulls “Christian teachers” have done. What a bunch of baloney and so obviously made up.<
True to Masters instructions, don’t bother with words, and the tense, grammar, context and conflation with other texts, just accept what is in your head under the spell of Masters meditation.
Words should never teach you; they should awaken you and make you more aware of what words really mean.75
NEVER STUDY OR BE ABSORBED IN MERE WORDS.”85
Let the two meditation recordings show you how. They will teach you to separate your conscious self from the thinking, feeling mind, so that you will come to know the Truth that can set you free. 82
The whole process of growing is not from words but from realizing and then you can throw your Bible in the garbage can and there’s no sin in that.137
What comes from thinking builds pride, but what comes out of neutral realizing awareness [the state of innocence or holiness] is holy.”86
And now I know why I cannot remember my childhood or my youth or even yesterday; . . .In the Ever-Present, I am becoming absent minded, in that I cannot remember like other men do. I cannot learn as others learn. 89 (http://www.theworldviewcenter.org/encyclopedia_foundationforhumanunderstanding.html)
Thus, while you attempt to appeal to Scripture, this and the study of it is not the basis for your understanding, thus engaging in exegetical exchange is pointless, except to reveal (to those who would not use the Bible as toilet paper) your specious attempts to justify your errors.
Yes..you should be able to hold a debate from your own insight and understanding free and clear from anything that other people have written. I have added some other texts very moderately..but I do not need to...you should not either if you have the holy spirit within.
And in context with all of the other passage which say that we do not sin, it fits perfectly..you would have to add the practicing word in most all of the other clear no sinning passages which is utterly ridiculous.
Don't you DARE???? C'mon, fabian, why do you continue to cherry pick verses? You don't believe in the Scriptures anyway, isn't that what Masters' teaches? You're supposed to just meditate, be still, and the "truth" will just come to you, right? So why are you even posting one verse from Scripture, and only partially one at that? Your selected snippet does NOT say what you insist it does and this has been explained to you, oh about a half dozen times now. Why do you ignore them and continue to brag that nobody has been able to answer you? When Scripture is given, you say you only want an answer in someone's "own words". When they give you their own words, you call them "dumbskulls" and call their answers "baloney" and "made up". Sounds an awful lot like PRIDE to me, and that IS a sin in God's eyes.
Maybe, for you and the other Mastersites, sin is only the outward acts - sex, murder, stealing, etc., but according to God's way of looking at things, it is the SPIRIT of the law more than the letter of it. Here is the passage, in context, that you so blatantly shortened to pretend it said something it doesn't:
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.
Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Do you see the point John is making here? You really seem very confused - you reject what the Bible clearly says and you mock and disparage anyone who tries to reason with you. You are far from showing Christ-like love to your brothers and sisters in the Lord. In fact, you have spent the last week and a half stamping your feet and throwing a tantrum because you didn't get to tell Free Republic about the man who you believe can save the world without all us "naysayers" joining in to dispute what Roy Masters preaches. You can't seem to understand that just because a man is charismatic and sounds oh-so-smart he just MIGHT not be telling the truth. It sounds like you have been bewitched by a "angel of light", a "minister of righteousness", who is only leading you further away from the truth and not towards it like he says he is. You are basing everything you've got on an 80 something year old man who believes HE is the messiah. And all he has to prove it is a smooth-talking schtick that sounds true.
You claim you have been freed from all kinds of emotional problems because you have followed his methods and you insist that you ARE now a sinless human being in "God's army" who is gradually earning your place in heaven. The rest of us poor schmoes are all ignorant and will go to hell because we are not sinless like you and because we are ignorant of the power Jesus gives to us to be as sinless as He is. Yet, you cannot even say what Jesus is. Is he a mere man? Is he the Son of God, but not God, not an angel, not a man, what? I hope you understand why we refuse to join in on your delusion. I also really hope and pray that you come to your senses and escape from this false prophet and his hold on you. He may very well have helped you to get over your problems, but your biggest problem is yet to come if you die in your denial of who Jesus is and what he has done for you.
Sorry for not seeing what must be a piece of html in that last post to you as i did not use the Preview. Here it is corrected.
That the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in believers with a fallen nature is manifestly contrary to Scripture. The writers of holy writ had the Holy Spirit in them, (1Pt. 1:11) and which included David, (2Sam. 23:2) but they had a fallen nature. And as shown before, and above, believers in the NT were already born again, such as the Galatians and Corinthians believers, but the same had a sinful nature and were in sinful spiritual declension.
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. " (Galatians 4:6)
"Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? " (Galatians 5:7)
"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? " (Galatians 3:2-3)
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. " (1 Corinthians 6:11)
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? " (1 Corinthians 6:19)
"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? " (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)
"For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. " (1 Corinthians 11:30-32)
And because they could yield to their sinful nature, thus they were exhorted not to grieve the Holy Spirit, (Eph. 4:30) and confession of sin and continual cleansing thereby was provided:"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. " (1 John 1:7-9)
This is NOT speaking about sins forgiven when one becomes born again, but is a promise that includes them, and speaks of continual cleansing upon confession - "if we confess" - not when we confessed. To always deny that we have no sin or have not sinned, means we are in deception.
Note that sin is the transgreesion of God's law, and requires loving God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength (Lk. 10.27 without fail 24/7, even by ignorance, (Lv. 4) - Roberston: If we confess (ean homologōmen). Third-class condition again with ean and present active subjunctive of homologeō, “if we keep on confessing.” Confession of sin to God and to one another (Jam_5:16) is urged throughout the N.T. from John the Baptist (Mar_1:5) on.
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