Lost in Translation

WSJ ^ | 24 July 2010 | Lera Boroditsky

[Palter]

New cognitive research suggests that language profoundly influences the way people see the world; a different sense of blame in Japanese and Spanish

Do the languages we speak shape the way we think? Do they merely express thoughts, or do the structures in languages (without our knowledge or consent) shape the very thoughts we wish to express?

Take "Humpty Dumpty sat on a..." Even this snippet of a nursery rhyme reveals how much languages can differ from one another. In English, we have to mark the verb for tense; in this case, we say "sat" rather than "sit." In Indonesian you need not (in fact, you can't) change the verb to mark tense.

In Russian, you would have to mark tense and also gender, changing the verb if Mrs. Dumpty did the sitting. You would also have to decide if the sitting event was completed or not. If our ovoid hero sat on the wall for the entire time he was meant to, it would be a different form of the verb than if, say, he had a great fall.

In Turkish, you would have to include in the verb how you acquired this information. For example, if you saw the chubby fellow on the wall with your own eyes, you'd use one form of the verb, but if you had simply read or heard about it, you'd use a different form.

Do English, Indonesian, Russian and Turkish speakers end up attending to, understanding, and remembering their experiences differently simply because they speak different languages?

These questions touch on all the major controversies in the study of mind, with important implications for politics, law and religion. Yet very little empirical work had been done on these questions until recently.

[Palter]

[Palter]

Just interesting ping.

[casuist]

Do English, Indonesian, Russian and Turkish speakers end up attending to, understanding, and remembering their experiences differently simply because they speak different languages?

Someone discovered the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, again. In other news, water found to be wet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

“The question of whether languages shape the way we think goes back centuries; Charlemagne proclaimed that “to have a second language is to have a second soul.” But the idea went out of favor with scientists when Noam Chomsky's theories of language gained popularity in the 1960s and ‘70s. “

Could it be that Chomsky is as wrong, about the things he's supposed to be an expert in; as he is about all the things that the far left revers him for?

[raybbr]

"That Awful German Language" by Mark Twain.

An extraordinarily funny essay on the German language. Even funnier because it's all true.

[wintertime]

This is a very interesting article. I recommend it to my fellow Freepers.

By the way, a few years ago my husband and I spent six months in Costa Rica attending language school. The following are just five examples of how English and Spanish differ:

1) There is no word in Spanish that adequately translates our English word “cute”.

2) Spanish has no exact word for our English word “earn”. They use instead the word “ganar” which also means “to win”.

3) In Spanish there are two words for “know”. “Conocer” means have personal experience with something. “Saber” means to know about but not have had personal experience with it.

4) Also, the Spanish use of the subjunctive allows more precise description of uncertainty that English, which has very limited use of the subjunctive tense.

5) In Spanish the word “hacer” can mean either “make”, “become”, or “do” in English, so, Hispanics trying to learn English will often confuse these words “make”, “become”, and “do” and use them inappropriately.

[dfwgator]

It’s like those Spanish have a different word for everything.

(With apologies to Steve Martin)

[Persevero]

Possibly Twain’s greatest work. A true gem.

[kabumpo]

thanks for the quote from Charlemagne. I agree, with the caveat that only if you THINK in both languages.
(I have a friend who says that I’m so nice when I speak Spanish, but that’s because of the language, not me).

Of course Chomsky is/was wrong.

[kabumpo]

The Spanish also have the same word for borrow/lend
and why/because and alone/lonely

There is no word for “compromise” in Spanish —
which should tell you something.

But language is more than vocabulary words — it’s sage.
There are phrases I use in Spanish that would sound very corny in English, and I find over and over and over again that’s it’s sooo easy to offend Spanish speakers by asking a direct question of giving a straightforward, unembellished answer — they find that rude.

[kabumpo]

sorry — bad typing — it shoud read:

But language is more than vocabulary words — it’s usage.

[Verginius Rufus]

In Spanish instead of saying "you're pulling my leg" they say "you're pulling my hair."

Which makes me wonder if baldness is more common in Spanish-speaking countries than in English-speaking countries.

[grey_whiskers]

There is no word for “compromise” in Spanish — which should tell you something.

And the French words for "victory" and "surrender" are identical --

"Au secours!"

Cheers!

[kabumpo]

I have never heard that expression in Spanish.

[SunkenCiv]

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[Perdogg]

ping

[null and void]

Someone discovered the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, again.

I had a similar first thought.

(Next they'll re-invent Loglan)

[eleni121]

Sure but the way we codify our languages signifies another complex dimension of understanding human behavior, an element that this article does not touch on.

These are the oldest written languages - several of which are no longer used:

Sumerian (5000 years old), Ancient Egyptian (4500 years old), Hittite (3500 years old), Greek (3500 years old), Latin (2800 years old), Sanskrit (2500 years old), Old Chinese (2500 years old), Mayan (2500 years old).

[TRY ONE]

“It’s like those Spanish have a different word for everything.”

For example:

English: “I’m coming to America”

Spanish:”Va a saltar la valla” (I’ll jump the fence)

[SilvieWaldorfMD]

Thanks.