TP: THREAT POTENTIALS [UNCONVENTIONAL, IMPROBABLE OR NOT]

i RESPECT Hal Lindsey a lot after hearing him speak to a small group of us in person. I think he's very sincere and does his best to research what he says. I think he has some great connections in Israel as well as in the USA.

I don't agree with everything he says but his perspective is often at least reasonable, given the givens.

I believe he's an authentic, earnest believer.

There are some crazy people out there...

'Quiet War' Against Humanity: Satanic Subversion
by HENRY MAKOW PhD

The truth is at once simpler and more incredible than anyone could conceive. A satanic cult headquartered in the City of London holds mankind in bondage. They worship Lucifer and are determined to redefine reality and rule the planet.

If you owned an unseemly proportion of the world's wealth, would you share it with the ignorant masses? Wouldn't you teach that God is dead, and Truth and Justice are purely subjective? Wouldn't you teach that man is nothing but an animal fit to domesticate or destroy?

Satanism has infiltrated Freemasonry and many other religions, institutions and groups. Secret Satanists control the levers of power: credit, mass media, education, government and the church. They pay lip service to Christianity to deceive us.

This cult is gradually corrupting, dehumanizing and conditioning us to accept a police state (New World Order). They lull and distract while they eliminate our freedoms and prepare for repression, using "terrorism" as a phony pretext.

In a 1961 lecture, Aldous Huxley described this police state as "the final revolution": a "dictatorship without tears" where people "love their servitude."

The goal is to produce " a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away... but... will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing... enhanced by pharmacological methods."

Among these pharmacologicals we now can recognize Ritalin, Prozac and Viagra, which healthy men commonly use for peformance.

Doctors are elite dealers designated to addict, distract and sedate society. A document entitled "Quiet Weapons for Silent Wars" confirms this is part of the war against humanity.

It says "inoculation of behavioural drugs" can speed a child's transition from the soon-to-be extinct family unit to "state-controlled public education and state-operated child-care centres."

BLUEPRINT FOR SATANIC SUBVERSION

Dated May 1979, "Quiet Weapons for Silent Wars" (Technical Manual SW7905.1) was found in 1986 in an IBM copier that had been purchased at a surplus sale.

It is the product of a discipline called "Operations Research" developed during WWII to attack enemy populations using tools of social engineering and psychological warfare.

According to the document, the "international elite" decided in 1954 to wage a "quiet war" against the American people with the goal of shifting wealth from "the irresponsible many" into the hands of the "responsible and worthy few."

"In view of the law of natural selection it was agreed that a nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. Such people are beasts of burden and steaks on the table [sic] by choice and consent."

The goal was to establish an economy, which is "totally predictable and manipulatible." The masses will have to be "trained and assigned a yoke...from a very early age..."

To achieve such conformity, the "family unit must be disintegrated by a process of increasing preoccupation of the parents and the establishment of government operated daycare centers for the occupationally orphaned children."

This is accomplished through "silent weapons" (propaganda and social engineering) applied in the media and schools.

"The public cannot comprehend this weapon and therefore cannot believe that they are being attacked and subdued by a weapon."

"When the silent weapon is applied gradually, the public adjusts...until the pressure becomes too great and they crack up...Therefore the silent weapon is a type of biological warfare.... It attacks ...their sources of natural and social energy and their physical, mental and emotional strengths..."

Although not mentioned by name, the silent weapon here is Feminism, which promotes lesbianism while posing as the defender of women.

The document says the father must be "house broken." The advertising media see to it that he is "pussy whipped" and "taught that he either conforms...or his sex life will...be zero." The female is "ruled by emotion first and logic second...too starry eyed to see [her child will be] a wealthy man's cannon fodder or a cheap source of slave labor."

The writer concludes, "This mindless school of jelly fish, father, mother, son and daughter, becomes useful beasts of burden..."

"DIVERSION THE PRIMARY STRATEGY"

The document speaks of "gaining control of the public" by keeping them "undisciplined, ignorant, confused, disorganized and distracted."

"Keep the public diverted away from "the real social issues and captivated by matters of no importance." "Sabotage their mental activities" by a "constant barrage of sex, violence and wars in the media" i.e. "mental and emotional rape."

Give them "junk food for thought" and deprive them of what they really need," especially a sound education. "Keep the public entertainment below the sixth-grade level."

"Work: Keep the public busy, busy, busy with no time to think; back on the farm with the other animals."

"Destroy the faith of the American people in each other."

The general rule: "there is profit in confusion; the more confusion, the more profit. Therefore the best approach is to create problems and then offer solutions."

"THE WELFARE STATE AS STRATEGIC WEAPON"

The public wants the government to "perpetuate their dependency role of childhood. Simply put, they want a human god to eliminate all risk from their life, pat them on the head, kiss their bruises, put a chicken on every dinner table...tuck them in and tell them everything will be alright...."

This "human god" is the politician who promises the world and delivers nothing.

This public behavior is "surrender born of fear, laziness, and expediency. It is the basis of the welfare state as a strategic weapon, useful against a disgusting public."

The public's lack of resistance is a sign that it "is ripe for surrender and is consenting to enslavement and legal encroachment. A good ...indicator of harvest time is the number of public citizens who pay income tax despite an obvious lack of reciprocal or honest service from the government."

EXAMPLES OF SILENT WEAPONS

People may object that this document is yet another forgery. However, people who are conscious can see that this blueprint already has been executed.

The promotion of homosexuality under the guise of "tolerance" and "equality" is an example of the silent weapon.

The equation of homosexual marriage with heterosexual marriage is a brazen denial of the uniqueness of heterosexuality. When they build monuments to human rights, they viciously attack the health and happiness of 97% of the population.

The difference between heterosexuality and homosexuality is one word: children. Homosexuals do not have biological children. Becoming parents is an essential step in heterosexual development. This requires that we form a permanent bond that is unique to us. (see "Relearning Heterosexual Love")

Homosexuals could have a special class of marriage with all the same rights and responsibilities. But they are used to confuse the majority so we don't bond and suffer arrested development as a result. (See "Canada Redefines Marriage" )

Feminism is another example. By denying healthy natural heterosexual roles, women usurp the place of men as providers and have few or no children, often as single parents. Men become redundant or "wives." Family is destroyed and society destabilized.

OTHER SILENT WEAPONS

The mass media and education mislead, manipulate, distract and deform. "Mental and emotional rape," they call it. While we have material plenty, our minds and souls are starved for truth.

We are conditioned to think about trivia or evade reality altogether. No coverage or debate is given to the insidious progress of world government and the erosion of national independence.

Because there will be no meaningful nationhood or democracy, the young are not taught history or civic virtues. Sex is promoted as a lifelong obsession. Pornography is rampant. We are not supposed to have mature concerns, such as the sort of world our children will inherit.

When was the last time you saw a movie that taught or inspired you? That contained recognizable human situations and emotions? That addressed the real issues we face? That warmed your heart and made you glad to be alive? When did a movie present a hero you could adopt as a role model?

Mankind has the intelligence to create a wonderful world. We are being sabotaged. Satan's disciples are responsible for the murder of scores of Presidents and other leaders, for depression, genocide and war including the bogus "Cold War" and its successor the "War on Terror."

All wars are against humanity organized by this satanic cult.
Their headquarters is Chatham House in London and their branch office is at Pratt House in NYC. The web of control extends through the Rockefeller Rothschild banking and oil cartels, corporations, foundations, intelligence networks and governments. The logos of scores of huge corporations, including mass media, contain Masonic references.

Our political, economic and cultural "leaders" have sold their souls and betrayed society. They are literally servants of Satan. Otherwise they would not tolerate that both Presidential candidates are members of a Satanic secret society, the Skull and Bones. They would not tolerate the obvious ruse that took place Sept. 11. They imagine they will be privileged in the New World Order. History has shown that everyone is expendable.

CONCLUSION

We call ourselves "progressive", but that is another example of doublespeak. The "progress" is only progress for the Illuminati.

While man was made in God's image, human life was Sacred. When we agreed God was dead, we became expendable.

That's why the author of "Silent Wars" can refer to us as "beasts of burden" and use the "Darwinian struggle" to justify enslavement and genocide.

Satan is not content to destroy us physically. He has a wager with God. Are we made in God's image or not? In order to win, he needs to prove we are nothing but dumb animals.

Lack of resistance signifies our acquiescence. We have been "progressively" demoralized and lulled.

We must shake off our stupor and show that we are not jelly fish but men who will fight for our Divine birthright.

This is a battle humanity can never evade.

The longer it is postponed the harder it will be to win.

* Henry Makow, is the inventor of the board game Scruples, and the author of A Long Way to go for a Date. He received his Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of Toronto. He welcomes your feedback and ideas at henry@savethemales.ca.

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=67&contentid=1412&page=2

I have begun to think that the 10 countries may be the 10 regions the world government has already divided the world up in.

. . . NORTH AMERICA, SOUTH AMERICA, AFRICA, ETC.

LUB

Just FYI

Apocalypse Now; Why the Book of Revelations is Must Reading
By GARY LEUPP

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared now, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the holy city, and the New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, as beautiful as a bride all dressed for her husband.

Revelation 21:1-2

A Godsend for the Warmongers

In my naively believing childhood, when I eagerly devoured the whole Bible, acquiring in the process a love of stories (if not of history), I read the Book of Revelation, fascinated by its awe-inspiring imagery and promise of glorious punishment and reward at the end of the human record. I later learned that Martin Luther, puzzled and troubled by the work, doubted whether it should ever have been included in the New Testament. (Some might conclude from this that one can be a Christian while not accepting this particular text.) He could "in no way detect that the Holy Spirit had produced it."

He also doubted whether the Epistle of St. James should be considered canonical, since it appears to challenge the doctrine of salvation by faith so central to Pauline theology. In the end he included both books in his German translation of the Bible. Had he omitted James, there would have been little impact on the subsequent Protestant movement, but had he jettisoned Revelation, the world might be rather different now. The book is more central to the beliefs of some churches than to others, but it has greatly affected the way many view current events. Sixteenth century Protestant preachers were sure that the Pope was the Antichrist, and descriptions of the Wars of Religion draw upon its apocalyptic imagery. Even today people draw upon it, as the War on Terrorism threatens to become a War of Religion. Some think Revelation 18:8-10, in which Babylon is doomed "within a single hour" and "burnt right up" refers to the 9-11 attack on New York.

Revelation is must reading nowadays, especially for the nonbeliever. I have returned to it, many years after abandoning the above-mentioned childhood faith, not because I think it is inspired prophecy, there being in my opinion no such thing, but because many other people (including many I'd grant are "good" people) think that it is. And because some of them think this piece of Holy Scripture somehow justifies ongoing imperialist war, which they (with their commander-in-chief) conceptualize religiously as a war of Good versus Evil. And because that conviction causes believers to support, on faith, Bush's efforts to remold the Middle East in the way the neocons (who are overwhelmingly not fundamentalist Christians, but who assiduously court them) want to do it. One should read Revelation to see how it can be used, and to see what sort of worldview the book encourages.

It is truly a godsend to those in the administration who want to transform the Muslim world, acquiring strategic control over Southwest Asia while enhancing Israel's security situation, that a considerable portion of the U.S. population consists of persons who take the book seriously. The neocons and patrons manipulate the Christian devout who adulate Ariel Sharon like a rock star, believe Israel (miraculously reconstituted half a century ago, in fulfillment of Ezekiel 37:12-14) can do no wrong, have little concern about Arabs' rights, and think Islam is a teaching of the Devil. Rev. Jerry Falwell calls the Prophet Muhammed a "terrorist." Rev. Franklin Graham calls Islam "a wicked, evil religion" and says its God is not the Christians' God. These reverends' followers are very useful supporters of the war on the human mind that is the "war on terrorism," the focus of which shifted so swiftly from al-Qaeda to Iraq (alike in little save their Muslimness), and could shift to Syria or Iran or Pakistan suddenly tomorrow. When you mix the anti-Islam pronouncements with Bush policy decisions and millenarian faith, you have an explosive combination.

Apocalypses

But fire will come down from heaven and consume them. Then the devil, who misled them, will be thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and false prophet are, and their torture will not stop, day or night, for ever and ever.

(20:10).

This ancient, mysterious Book of Revelation is itself incendiary. It's one example of a popular type of literature (apocalypse in Greek) which, using richly symbolic language encouraging multiple interpretations, reveals that which is hidden, including events in the future. There are many other examples of such works written between 300 BCE and 200 CE; Jewish ones include the Book of Enoch and the Apocalypse of Ezra, Christian ones include the Apocalypse of Paul and the Apocalypse of Peter. (For translations, see Willis Barnstone, ed., The Other Bible.) The Apocalypse of Peter was very popular in Rome as of the third century, but didn't make it into the Bible; at a synod at Rome in 382, the present canon of 27 New Testament books was fixed. The Apocalypse of Peter, and numerous gospels and letters, were denounced as "false" and often burned.

Authorities differ on the dating of Revelation, some favoring the late 60s (soon after Nero's persecution of the Christians), more favoring ca. 95 (after the dispersion of the Jews from Roman Palestine). It is of unknown authorship; although traditionally attributed to Jesus' disciple John, its language is so different from the Gospel of John and that of the three letters attributed to John in the New Testament, that most serious scholars doubt it was written by the apostle. Authored by a Jewish Christian who had spent time on Patmos (a tiny Aegean island used as a penal colony by the Romans), it expresses great rage at the Roman Empire, referred to here as "Babylon," the name of the empire that had conquered the kingdoms of Israel and Judah and dispersed their populations centuries earlier.

Biblical prophecy, a cousin of Zoroastrian and Buddhist and other prophecy, and harbinger of prophetic writing from Mani to Nostradamus to Jeanne Dixon, rests on the assumption that the future is pre-determined, as part of God's plan, and can be foretold by those whom God decides shall do so. Some biblical prophecy was in fact composed after the events the prophet is purported to have predicted; the Old Testament Book of Daniel, which predicts the fall of Babylon to the Persians, and Persia's fall to the Greeks, was written around 167 BCE after all these things had already happened. Unless it's demystified, prophecy is one of the spookiest and most powerful elements in religion, and can be deftly deployed to play upon fears and earnest expectations alike. James Warren Jones, architect of the Jonestown Massacre, convinced his followers that he was the Second Coming of Christ. Aum Shinrikyo guru Asahara Shoko could persuade very sophisticated, intelligent Japanese people to randomly gas others in the Tokyo subway by manipulating bits and pieces of Christian, Buddhist and Hindu prophecy about the end of the world. Far more sophisticated and well-funded religious leaders can draw upon faith in a foregone future to get people to abet that future's fulfillment---for example, by supporting administration actions in the Middle East believing they portend the Second Coming.

It's easy to understand Luther's doubts about the Book of Revelation. It is filled with kabbalism, symbolic use of numbers, such as the number seven (as in, the seven hills of Rome, the seven Roman emperors from Augustus, the seven churches of Asia to whom the work is addressed); and that number striking fear into some hearts: 666. Revelation makes no reference to the Trinity, but rather to "seven spirits of God" and to Jesus as an emanation of God, subordinate to him although present from the dawn of time. The book's theology is hard to reconcile with the rest of the New Testament, which was still taking shape; it stands apart. Jesus in Revelation is not meek and mild but brutally vengeful upon his return---the second earthly appearance predicted in Matthew 25, Luke 21, John 16 etc.

Summary of John's Visions

Revelation is a long, confusing sequence of visions, but can be summarized as follows. John of Patmos first transmits divine wisdom to seven churches in Asia Minor. These were not necessarily the most important Christian communities of the time, just ones whose problems he was apparently familiar with; and again, the number seven is special. Then John conveys the content of a vision in which the door of Heaven opens and he sees God (who "looked like a diamond and a ruby") surrounded by twenty-four elders in white robes and four fantastic animals giving praise. In the right hand of God is a scroll "sealed with seven seals." A Lamb (that is, Jesus Christ) who appears to have been sacrificed, with seven horns and seven eyes "which are the seven Spirits God has sent out all over the world" steps forward to accept the scroll while the twenty-four sing a hymn. The Lamb breaks the seals, and as he does so, a rider on a white horse appears to accept a victor's crown; another rider, on a red horse, comes to receive a huge sword and "set people killing one another;" another, on a black horse, arrives with scales while the four animals shout about daily wages, barley, oil and wine; another, on a deathly pale horse, arrives representing Plague. These Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are given authority over a quarter of the earth, "to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague and wild beasts."

When the fifth seal is broken, John sees underneath the heavenly altar the souls of all those killed for witnessing to the word of God. They ask why God does not immediately pass sentence and take vengeance on the inhabitants of the earth for their deaths (6:10-11). They are given white robes and told to wait a bit longer until the prophesized number of Christians are killed. Then the sixth seal is broken, and the sky disappears, and the people of the world flee to mountains and caves, begging the rocks to fall on them to protect them from the wrath of God. Four avenging angels appear to destroy humankind, but are restrained by another who asks them to wait until seals have been placed on the heads of 144,000 persons "out of all the tribes of Israel" who are servants of God. (The Jehovah's Witnesses especially emphasize this passage, Revelation 7:4.) That's the twelve tribes of Israel times 12,000; there's no mention here of the non-Jewish converts to Christianity.

The opening of the seventh seal produces silence in heaven for half an hour. Thereupon seven trumpets are given seven angels standing before God. One angel throws fire from a golden censer to earth, and the earth shakes. One by one the angels blow their trumpets, bringing punitive devastation to the earth. These events do not seem to represent happenings that chronologically succeed one another (and the whole narrative is filled with logical puzzles); rather, the trumpet events expand upon those events associated with the opening of the seals. Between the sixth and seventh trumpet blasts, John is told to go to the Temple in Jerusalem with a measuring rod, and to measure the sanctuary and altar and people worshipping there---but not the outer court, which has been given over to pagans for forty-two months. God sends two sackcloth-clad witnesses with special powers, such as the ability to turn water into blood, to prophesy in Jerusalem. But the serpent, after those forty-two months, makes war on them and kills them. Their corpses lie in the Great City (not Jerusalem but evil Rome), as people rejoice at the troublemakers' deaths. But they are revived after three and a half days, while a great earthquake occurs, killing 7000.

John meanwhile sees a vision of a pregnant woman, "adorned with the sun, standing on the moon" who as she gives birth is confronted by a huge red dragon (Satan) who tries to eat the child as it is born. (Commentators differ on whether this woman is Israel giving birth to the messiah, or the Virgin Mary doing so. Catholic commentary favors the first interpretation.) But God takes the baby (destined "to rule all the nations with an iron scepter") up into heaven while the woman escapes to the desert for 1260 days. War breaks out in Heaven between the dragon and the archangel Michael and other angels; the dragon, defeated, is thrown down to earth, where he unsuccessfully attacks the woman and "the rest of her children, that is, all who obey God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus."

The dragon delegates his power to a seven-headed beast emerging from the sea (who appears to be a political ruler, and is often associated with the Antichrist, although that term does not occur in this text but only in 1 John 2:18, 4:2-3 and 2 John 1:7). Then another beast (a religious ruler, a false prophet) emerges as slave to this beast from the sea. He makes the world worship the first beast, and makes everyone worship his statue. The number of the second beast is 666. (The kabbalist association of numbers with the Roman letters "Nero Caesar" produces this figure.)

Next John in his vision sees the Lamb standing on Mt. Zion with the 144,000, all with the Father's name on their foreheads. These are the ones who have kept their virginity (sexual abstinence being a requisite for membership in some Christian Gnostic sects before the emergence of an orthodox form of Christianity) and have never lied. No fault can be found with them. (Notice how there is no hint of St. Paul's notion of "justification by faith" here.) Flying overhead, angels call upon all to worship God, and announce "Babylon has fallen!" They declare that they will torture all who worship the statue of the beast. One of the four animals gives the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with God's wrath; these are emptied over the world, producing disease and turning rivers and oceans to blood. Again, the disasters described overlap and amplify the first two sequences of seven.

Now here is where it starts to get especially "relevant." The sixth angel empties his bowl over the Euphrates River (that is to say, in present day Iraq), drying up the water so that the "kings of the East" are able to come in. From the jaws of the dragon and two aforementioned beasts appear three "foul spirits" looking like frogs; they are in fact demon spirits able to work miracles. Their job is to organize the kings of the world to war against the Almighty. They call the kings together at Armageddon. (This refers to the Megiddo mountains, near the modern Israeli town of Megiddo, about 15 miles from the Palestinian town of Jenin. In the seventh century BCE King Josiah was defeated here by the Egyptian pharaoh. The name became synonymous with military disaster.)

The seventh angel empties his bowl into the air, producing the greatest earthquake the world has ever known and destroying the Great City, all islands, and all mountains. But this isn't yet the end, and the vision is not over. One of the seven angels with a bowl shows John a "famous prostitute," a woman riding a scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns (that is, the beast from the sea, the political ruler); on her forehead is written "Babylon the Great, the mother of all prostitutes and all the filthy practices of the earth." (Most commentators think this means Rome.) She is drunk with the blood of the Christian martyrs. The heads of the beasts she rides, John learns, are "seven emperors," five of who have gone (the Roman emperors Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero?), while one lives now (Galba?) and one is yet to come. This last will rule for only a short time; the beast and him will go to their destruction. (Obviously the writer thought the end of the world was very near.)

The beast's ten heads represent ten kings who will rule "for only an hour," going to war with the Lamb and meeting defeat at the hands of the faithful. Then the prostitute will be stripped naked, the faithful will eat her flesh and burn the remains in a fire (17:16). All the merchants, traders and sea captains who profited from trading with her will be punished, while victory songs resound in heaven. Another great battle begins, between the beast and the kings of the earth and a rider called the Word of God who rides on a white horse. The beast from the sea and the false prophet are thrown into a fiery lake of burning sulfur, while the dragon ("which is the devil and Satan") who had appeared at the outset of the narrative is chained up for 1000 years. Those Christians who died in persecutions are now resurrected, and reign with Christ for those 1000 years. (There are different opinions as to whether these Christians are limited to the aforementioned 144,000.)

One is tempted to stop the summary here, since, one might expect, those who accept this text as prophesy are just thinking about events up to this millennium moment. But some Christian thinkers (notably St. Augustine of Hippo, 354-430) came to interpret all the foregoing as pre-fourth century, past events, symbolically portrayed, preceding Emperor Constantine's Edict of Toleration (313) and soon thereafter, the establishment of Christianity as the Empire's official and only tolerated faith. Augustine thought he lived at the inception of the 1000 years mentioned above. There are logical problems here, since the "Great City" and "Babylon" are Rome, and Rome didn't in fact meet with the predicted fire and brimstone but rather become thoroughly and aggressively Christianized. But if one says all the foregoing is a symbolic representation of the past, what comes next (20:7 through 22:25) is of key importance.

Satan is for some reason released from prison after 1000 years, and deceives the leaders of all the nations, led by Gog and Magog, to attack Jerusalem, "the camp of the saints." (Some conflate this with the Battle of Armageddon only hinted at in 16:16.) But fire comes down from heaven to consume them (20:9). God opens the book of life and judges all the dead; those already in Hades, and anyone not listed in the book, are thrown into a second death in a burning lake. A new heaven and new earth appear, their precedents having passed away; the new Jerusalem comes down from Heaven, and there is universal joy. Curiously, there are still pagan nations, but they "will live by the light" of the New Jerusalem (22:24).

Revelation and Bush's War

This is the basic presentation in Revelation, presented, I hope, with fairness. (The true believer often resents dispassionate presentation of material he or she thinks obviously holy more than the mere contemptuous dismissal of the same.) Many supplement it with material from Old Testament prophesy (such as Ezekiel and Daniel) and other New Testament material, such as the Antichrist concept and the notion of the "Rapture" (based on 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). Obviously in its vagueness, it can be applied to many times and places, rather like the dire predictions of the (Buddhist) Lotus Sutra have been employed to explain calamities in Asian societies over centuries. Eugene Gallagher, Professor of Religious Studies at Connecticut College, writes that "the lush imagery and the complicated imagery of Revelation, has been one of the things that has kept people reading it. Because it can always be renewed. It can always be applied to a new situation."

Indeed, surfing the web, you find the Pope, Russian President Putin, even President Bush, all identified as the beast/Antichrist, on sites creatively combining New Age trends, kabbalism, astrology, Nostradamus cultism and Biblical literalism. Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but few religious texts inspire more babble.

So how can Revelation be politically applied today? Well, let's say we forget the scholarly analysis that interprets the whole thing as a statement of Christian hatred for Rome, and of passionate belief in an imminent Second Coming that will bring ruin to the Roman Empire and glory to the Christian oppressed. Let us say it indeed refers to the future, while noting that there are some people out there very disappointed that the year 2000 went by with nary a trace of a Second Coming. They long for that Coming, understandably, as we all pine for utopia, and they want to apply Revelation to current events.

Let us say that Babylon really means Babylon, the city along the Euphrates, in modern-day Iraq, noting that it suffers terrible ruin at the hand of God. Let us note that the sixth angel allows the "kings of the East" to attack the dried-up Euphrates, and that thereafter apocalyptic battles take place in Armageddon and Jerusalem, resulting in Christ's return and the establishment of a new Jerusalem on earth. Let's note that earthly rulers mentioned in general fight against God and Jerusalem, including "ten kings" who some in the past have identified as the leaders of the European Union. (That's gotten harder with the expansion of the EU.) Gog and Magog have been identified in the past with the Soviet Union, but that doesn't work well nowadays. As for the beast (Antichrist), there have been and are many candidates, and something as random as a U.S. political scandal could throw up more..

Well, it doesn't take too much a stretch of the fevered imagination to see in this narrative a divine plan for a righteous attack on Iraq, followed by continued disorder in Iraq involving kings from the east (east from Iraq you have Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan), triggering war in Israel, pitting the good souls of Jerusalem (aided for a time by two divinely-sent witnesses) against the whole world arrayed against them, including "pagans" (Palestinians?) who occupy the outer court of the Temple in Jerusalem for 42 months, but after fire comes down from heaven to consume armies whose soldiers are as numerous as grains of sand, the chosen will remain, to rule with Jesus forever, headquartered in Jerusalem. It's an affecting, and at the end, even beautiful vision for some believing Christians, whose view of the contemporary Middle East might be deeply influenced by this text.

But there must be, according to the prophecy, a war of unprecedented horror in the Middle East before Jesus returns and renders judgment, and finally solves all the problems of the world.

So the current war, undertaken by godly men, might be GOOD. Forget the moral qualms of the bleeding heart nonbelievers. If righteous cruelty is prophesied, can we not condone it in the here and now? Have thousands of Afghans and Iraqis died? Well, divine fire rains from the sky in Revelation. God wills this. Torture at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere? Why, angels torture in Revelation 18:7. Why should this be a problem?

Securing the Realm

Let us say you embrace this general Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds scenario. Do Bush's reasons for attacking Iraq make any difference? No. The nonexistent weapons of mass destruction aside, the unsubstantiated al-Qaeda links, all pale against the argument that God's chosen president expressed to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas: "God told me to strike at al-Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East." The problem of the credibly of his Iraq claims recedes in importance when you read, in Christianity Today, Bush's heartfelt statement of political philosophy: "when you're trying to lead the world in a war that I view as really between the forces of good and the forces of evil, you got [sic] to speak clearly. There can't be any doubt." Bush is working God's will, following his Plan, swaggering towards Armageddon. It's undoubtedly as simple as Good and Evil.

One wants to think, of course, that logical analysis and methodical exposure of the accelerated moves towards unchallenged global control the Bush administration has undertaken since 9-11 might slowly but surely disabuse the most benighted of their support for continued U.S. military aggression. Skepticism increases in the wake of disasters in Iraq, journalistic exposés, and official investigations, but much of this flies over the heads of those most vulnerable to a kind of neo-fascist, deliberately non-rational appeal.

Revelation, like most scriptures, it is what Marx said of religion in general: an expression of, and protest against, suffering. As such it holds great appeal, and is of interest even to the non-believer. It contains powerful images; the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, for example, is an often-encountered literary trope. It has a beauty analogous to a Wagnerian opera, but just as (and I say this as a fan) such art held a particularly dangerous content in Germany in the 1930s, so at present this text's message dovetails so smoothly with the war plans of this administration that it may be dangerous.

Of course Revelation is read differently by different people. The Rastafarians believe that the Second Coming it describes refers to Emperor Haile Selassie, and for them, "Babylon" means any oppressive society. Bob Marley could draw upon Revelation to write about liberation. Folksongs and Negro spirituals pining for a "New Jerusalem" don't urge military aggression to create it. Like so much scripture, Revelation lends itself to interpretation. Hong Houxiu, head of the Taiping Rebellion in China in the mid-nineteenth century, believed he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ, sent to establish the Taiping or Kingdom of Heaven. His fanatic followers, ruling from 1853 in Nanjing until their defeat in 1860, drew upon the Book of Revelation. In the 1890s the Paiute Indian Wavoka, also influenced by the Book of Revelation and claiming to be Christ, taught the Ghost Dance to his followers so that they could dance up into the air while a new earth was being established. (Many of his dancers perished at Wounded Knee.)

Revelation does not instruct its believing reader to favor this or that policy option. I assume there are believers who are thoroughly against the war on Iraq. But believers energized by anticipation of a glorious new world on the horizon, and by the belief that they are participating in prophesized events, may become particularly apt to place blind faith in an aggressive Good vs. Evil foreign policy. They should be informed that beneath the simplistic religious justification for the "war on terrorism" (including the war in Iraq, which the Bush administration sees as the central battlefield of the "war on terrorism," but which many scholars and officials regard as an entirely separate phenomenon) there is a layer of carefully researched and presented strategy papers authored by the prophetic neocons. These neoconservatives have led the administration in producing regime change in Afghanistan, invading and occupying Iraq, deferring in unprecedented fashion to Israeli policy while demanding changes in the Palestinian Authority and severing ties with Yassir Arafat.

They have imposed sanctions on Syria, indicated approval of an Israeli air strike on Syria, and have been preparing a case to justify military action against Damascus. They have stepped-up efforts to influence the unstable political situation in Iran, with Radio Farda, and have depicted the Iranian nuclear program currently under UN inspection as a serious threat, hinting that they would support an Israeli strike à la Osiraq 1981. They've put the onus for Arab backwardness on Arab culture, pronouncing the democratization of the Middle East a U.S. policy priority. Meanwhile they've established U.S. military bases throughout Muslim Central Asia and set up new ones throughout the Persian Gulf region to compensate for the withdrawal of forces from Saudi Arabia. Plainly they have big plans for the region. You get some inkling of those plans are in the 1996 strategy paper "A Clean Break: A New Project for Securing the Realm" , authored by Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, David Wurmser and other neocons that have shaped and articulated current U.S. Middle East policy. It was written for the Israeli government, but the authors see the interests of Israel and the U.S. as nearly identical and have in their capacity as American officials pursued the goals indicated in this document. The authors of the position papers of the unabashedly imperialist Project for a New American Century also indicate neocon goals for the region. These gentlemen and women by and large do not believe in the Book of Revelation, but I'll bet they believe in its utility.

This is the problem. Leo Strauss's thought divides humanity into three types: the wise, the gentlemen, and the vulgar. The wise use deception (noble lies) to attain their ends, using gentlemen (who are not wise but who are powerful) to control the masses. Religion is a vital tool in controlling the masses ("as lambs to the slaughter"), and the non-believing wise can also use it to manipulate "gentlemen." Revelation, at the hands of the wise, gentle or vulgar, is among the world's most easily manipulated of books; the wise can do it best.

Hal Lindsey, best-selling author of The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) identified the beast of Revelation (the Antichrist) with the Soviet Union. But later, with the European Union. Now, perhaps, global Islam. His most recent book, The Everlasting Hatred: The Roots of Jihad, traces Arab-Israeli enmity back to the days of Abraham, depicts Islam itself as the problem, and concludes with a chapter on "Armageddon: The Climax of Hate." Many are being influenced by this book, and its association of the Muslim fighter with the Serpent, the Beast, the False Prophet, etc. Those persuaded by its message might be more inclined to support more troops in Iraq, or the expansion of the war into Syria, or restoration of a draft, because prophesy supports it. Very dangerous indeed.

* * *

Friedrich Engels (one of the most rational and encyclopedic minds of the nineteenth century, who had a keen interest in the history of religion) wrote in one of his last substantial works that the Book of Revelation was both the "most obscure book in the Bible" and "the most comprehensible and the clearest." Drawing upon recent German scholarship, he emphasized that the work should be clearly comprehended as an expression of rage against Rome (that republic led by a senate that had morphed over time into an empire oppressing people from Britain to Mesopotamia, meeting with particularly fierce resistance in the lands of the Middle East) and its persecution of Christians, who were overwhelmingly drawn from the humblest classes throughout the empire. As such, it commands respect as an expression of resistance to oppression. But in the hands of evangelical commentators, who (thoroughly at peace with contemporary imperialism) line up chronological charts about the near-term future, with authoritative pomposity linking prophecy with current Middle Eastern events (much as the astrologer casts horoscopes with pseudoscientific precision, using snake-oil salesmanship to seduce the gullible), it becomes something quite different: a validation for ongoing war.

Luther in no way detected the Holy Spirit in it. But Bush, committed to an Armageddon-like war between the forces of good and those of evil, no doubt sees forces of good throughout this scripture, which may speak to him directly. We should all study this particular weapon, if only to better understand the minds of the president and his dead-ender followers.

Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and Adjunct Professor of Comparative Religion. He is the author of Servants, Shophands and Laborers in in the Cities of Tokugawa Japan; Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan; and Interracial Intimacy in Japan: Western Men and Japanese Women, 1543-1900. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's merciless chronicle of the wars on Iraq, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, Imperial Crusades.

He can be reached at: gleupp@granite.tufts.edu

http://www.opednews.com/leupp_071904_revelations.htm

Davey, excellent work! id give you a big brotherly bear hug, with an extra squeeze to say; "slow down!"

other symbolic aspects of daniel's vision are worthy of note as well - and seem to verify your analysis, particularly in regards to kingdom i.d. - i offer these thoughts with great thanks for all the work being done on this thread to come to clearer understanding of god's word. PRAISE JESUS!!!!

please note; this is what quix earlier described: a dot-connect type of thing. i tend to proceed along these lines at a much slower pace than you seem to, davey, because i want to be as sure as possible....and for me, that seems to manifest as a point-by-point....want it to be in 'concrete' sort of thing. AND... that is not to say that you DONT!

ok, now: eagle's wings (of the lion in 7:4) check out habbakuk 1: 6-8. dont you just love that? scripture and history CONFIRMED (yet again!)

the bear raised up on ONE SIDE = persian ascendancy (over medes)... AND im pretty sure youre on target with the i.d. of the 3 ribs - cool!

leopard/4 wings = from "The Cambridge Ancient History" pgs. 425, 426 : (alexander's) "speed of movement was extraordinary." !!!!!! and 4 heads = the 4 generals! (cassander, lysimachus, ptolemy, & seleucus).

i need more time than i have right now to get more into the 4th beast's stuff.....great stuff! LUB

Bump!

THANKS TONS FOR YOUR KIND BUMP.

Thankfully, anything good in that post came from Above, of course.

But I enjoyed sharing in the process/insights.

PTL.

U R STILL BURNING THE KEYBORAD UP WITH IMPRESSIVE POSTS, I C.

THX MUCH.

Racing back to my weaving.

END OF LOST GENERATION

Children may soon find that Big Mother is watching them.

An electronic satellite tagger that can only be removed by a computer will go on sale in Britain within months.

The Wherify watch will allow parents to track their children to within feet anywhere in the country.

Wherify Wirless, which is selling the watches for £99, says they will provide comfort for worried parents.

Missing children could be tracked down in minutes.

The Wherify GPS locator watch is fastened to a child's wrist and can only be removed remotely.

It has been a hit in the United States, among carers of the elderly or those with Alzheimer's disease as well as parents.

Children's groups fear it could be misused by parents or become a substitute for adult supervision.

There is also concern it could be tapped into by strangers.

Dr Chris Hanby, of Barnado's, told The Times: "Our understanding so far is that none of these tracking systems prevent those who are wanting inappropriate access to children from doing so."

ET DOC:

From: Gladrags2@webtv.net (Anita Bush)

To: end-times_news@associate.com

Subject: Aliens Among Us?

Professor exposes the aliens among us
In the world of academia, Northern Kentucky University philosophy professor Dr. Robert Trundle realizes his beliefs are not exactly widely embraced. "Shunned" is the word he sometimes uses.

The title of his forthcoming book is, in part at least, in response to what he calls "the cowardice and vanity of a sizeable percentage of American professors." Scheduled for release early next year, it's called "Is ET Here? No Politically, but Yes Scientifically and Theologically"
(EcceNova Editions, Victoria, British Columbia).

Dr. Trundle, 60, occupies an almost monastic office on the second floor of NKU's Landrum Hall. It's a room about 10 by 10, and every available square foot is piled high with texts of one sort or another. I was careful not to touch off an avalanche when I sat among the stacks the other day and asked him to boil his book down to its basics. So what does he mean by that title? Do beings from places other than
this planet walk among us?

"Yes, I believe contact was made 50 years ago -- and I believe beings from other planets are here now, mainly to study us," Dr. Trundle said.

"Does ET exist from a political perspective? No, because the government is afraid of the culture shock and public panic. For the government to acknowledge the existence of extraterrestrials here would beto admit it can't protect us from them.

"Scientifically, I argue that thousands of well-regarded witness accounts cannot simply be dismissed. I'm talking about pilots who have come forward even though it's meant they've had to undergo psychiatric exams as a direct result."

At the very least, he said, we can't use current science as the standard for excluding the possibility of a more advanced science:

"For example, science says it's impossible to travel at the speed of light. If it were possible, it would take four years of traveling at the speed of light to get to the nearest star system, Alpha Centauri.

"Given our current technology, it would probably take us 50,000 years to get there, plus or minus. Based on that, the scientific establishment somewhat blithely dismisses the existence of extraterrestrials.

"It's like saying if we can't do it, they can't do it either."

Dr. Trundle's book is not an easy read, but it's an intriguing sampler of UFO lore, sightings and documents, including this Freedom of Information Act version of a March 22, 1950, FBI memo stating in part:

"An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico -- circular in shape with raised centers, approximately 50 feet in diameter. Each -- occupied by three bodies of human shape but only 3 feet tall."

It's a subject Dr. Trundle has been chasing for years. His grandfather, president of the now-defunct Trundle Engineering Co. in Cleveland, was fascinated with extraterrestrials and, when he died in 1954, left Robert
a small collection of books about UFOs. His first article to the effect that ETs are here, entitled "Extraterrestrial Intelligence: Challenge to Theology, Physics and Metaphysics," was published in 1994. His second
book, "Illustrated News of the Unbelievable," was co-authored with George Filer, a retired Air Force intelligence officer.

Dr. Trundle paints a virtual "Men in Black" picture of the ET scene in which several species are visiting the earth, most in a human form. But why?

"There are benign scenarios in which they might be seen as
anthropologists coming here out of curiosity," he said.
"Then there is a more threatening scenario, which is that they're studying to see if the earth is habitable. An even more worrisome possibility is that they have a hybrid program of sexually mating with humans to strengthen their species."

No doubt about it. Dr. Trundle would have an easier go of it if he stuck to Socrates. "But I'm trying to apply the truth in the way Socrates called for it to be applied to everyday life," he said. He's convinced he's right. All he's lacking is cold, hard proof.

"If I had that, it would be the most astonishing event since the resurrection of Christ."

Contact David Wecker at (513) 352-2791 or via e-mail at

sambets@choice.net.

Copyright 2004 The Cincinnati Post, an E.W. Scripps newspaper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Luke 21:28 "And when these things begin to come to
pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your
redemption draweth nigh."

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Message to the US Church/Selvaraj Part 1
Meri Burlingame
Jul 21, 2004
I usually don't post anything with these lovely forward marks, but this and the following post I thought merited our attention.Thanks to Marilyn Wright for forwarding these to me.

Meri

ANZAC Prophetic List wrote:

"PROPHETIC MESSAGE to the USA CHURCH"

-by Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj (-prophet from India).

Delivered to the church in St. Louis, June 2002.

Don't you believe any of the false prophets who preached to you after 9/11 saying it was not a judgment of God.... Two days before 9/11 happened, a dear friend of mine, a very saintly prophet of God, was taken up in the spirit to Heaven. And while he stood before the presence of the Almighty God, the Lord Jesus Christ called forth for a mighty, powerful angel.

He came and stood before the Lord Jesus Christ. And a fiery torch was given to this angel. As soon as the angel held the torch, he became enflamed (engulfed) with fire from the crown of his head to the sole of his feet. And then, the command was given to the angel, GO FORTH! And cast this fire down upon the nations of the world. And the angel and this prophet came down, and they stood in the mid-heavens. And the angel told him, now see what happens.

And the angel took the fiery torch in his hand and cast down fires in several parts
of the earth. And when the fires were thrown, the angel told him, From now onward, there will be bombings, fires and destructions in many, many nations around the world. That (vision) was (given to this prophet) on the seventh of September (of 2001).

On the eighth of September, when he was conducting a fasting and prayer meeting in his church, the same angel came and stood by his side again, and repeated into his ear, audibly, word for word, every event that he saw the previous day. And the angel commanded him, Now, declare to your church everything that you saw and you heard. And with great fear and trembling, he shared what he saw and what he heard. And they all prayed.

Several days later came the judgment upon America. It was not an ordinary terrorist attack. If you read in the Old Testament, the five books of Moses, every time Israel would go away, go astray from the commandments and laws of God, the Bible says very clearly, God will turn her enemies against her. The hornets and the wild beasts will be let loose to come and create havoc in the land of Israel among the Israelites.

If God can do that to the chosen nation, the chosen people, how much more YOU? God removed his protective cover, removed his protective hand, because you constantly turned your back against the Almighty God.

I was supposed to speak with you about the crucified life, as I mentioned last night. But today, as I was here during the worship service, an angel of the Lord came and stood before me, and he told me to do something else. That is what is happening right now. Exodus 34:5 onwards..."And the Lord passed by before Him and proclaimed, The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering and abundant in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. And that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, to the third and to the fourth generation."

Please observe the last part in verse seven, "visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children and upon the children's children unto the third and fourth generation. I came well prepared to continue preaching on the crucified life. But as we were deeply worshiping the Lord, I saw the chief prince angel over the nation of the United States of America.

He came and stood before me. I first began seeing chief prince angels of nations when I went to South Africa. That was the first time that I ever saw a chief prince
angel that is in charge of overlooking the affairs of an entire nation. And he gave me a word concerning the nation, concerning the will of God, and what God's purpose is for the nation. From then onwards, for the many, many nations that I would go to, the respective angels of those nations would come to me and give me a word for the nation: what is God's word, what does God think about the
nation, what has been happening in the nation, in the churches, and what is going to come to pass.

So when the angel of the United States of America came and stood before me, I tremble and quake every time I see an angel of a nation, I always tremble and quake in my heart, because of the awesome anointing and authority they have. When he came and stood before me, he told me, An awesome judgment is going to come upon America very soon. An awesome judgment. When he spoke, I felt
a fear, a Godly fear running through my bones and my spirit.

This is not a judgment that would destroy the entire nation, but something
quite similar to what happened with the twin towers. But, it can all be prevented, IF RIVERS OF INTERCESSION flow in the nation. This is the word that he told me to speak.

And I saw, that if you will take this seriously and pray, a huge river flowing all throughout the center of your country. If it flows - a river of tears, rivers of intercession (and as the angel was speaking, I saw this huge white river flowing from the east to the west)—only that would prevent this judgment that could come.

And then I saw this angel, where he was positioned and where he was standing,
guarding over the United States of America. He was standing very near to where the Statue of Liberty is. A huge, gigantic angel! If you read in Revelation, chapter ten, it is written, John saw an angel so huge and mighty that one of his legs was on the earth, the other leg was on the sea, and he stretched out his hand and he
reached to the sun. Can you imagine what a gigantic figure he must have been? Probably as tall as the Sears tower or the former World Trade Center. Such a huge, gigantic angel standing guard over the United States of America! My dearly beloved brothers and sisters, as he was speaking these words, he said this is the word that you should preach tonight.

And then I saw the heavens open, and from the throne of God, this word came to me: Visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's
children unto the third and to the fourth generation. The judgments of God. Don't you believe any of the false prophets who preach to you after 9/11 saying, it was not a judgment of God. I tell you, as a non-American, and as a holy prophet of God, what happened was a judgment from God....

You know, when I first came to America, in 1991, on the fourth of July, your Independence Day, I was in a conference scheduled to speak. As I was worshiping the Lord, I saw the heavens open before me, and the Lord Jesus Christ stood there, and He told me, "Now I am going to give you a word for this nation." Among the three things that He showed me, they all have come to pass, but I will tell you one thing that concerns you right now: I saw the flag of America. -- You know, I have never seen a people like the Americans, who love their nation so much, and who are so patriotic about their great nation. That is good. When I traveled in your country, I used to see these huge, gigantic flags that fly so majestically in some parts of the country. I feel very proud, as if I
myself was an American.

The same American flag, I saw in the heavens. But instead of flying in the right direction, it was flying in the reverse direction. And the Lord Jesus Christ was standing at the flag and knocking on the flag. And as He was knocking, I saw the words, LAST CALL flashing. Last Call was flashing and flashing. Then the word of the Lord came unto me, "This nation -- the flag that you see flying in the reverse direction is the heart of this nation that has turned away from righteousness, and is walking toward unrighteousness.
She has turned her back towards Me. Yet, I am still calling her. Last call, last call, last call. And for the three months that I was in the U.S. during that period, every church and every conference that I went to, I was commanded to share this vision. And ask the American people to pray for your country. But you know, I was very aghast to notice that the Americans, especially American Christians, take very lightly such words, because you think that the non-Christian Americans deserve God's judgment.

You really don't love your country. You think you love your country, but deep down in your heart, you don't really love your country. You have such a self-righteous attitude, thinking that the non-Christians deserve the judgment of God, and you deserve Heaven. Don't you think that when the twin towers came down, many Christians also perished? When the economy of New York City came to a standstill, how many Christians also suffered economic losses, job layoffs.

Thirty-thousand Indians working in New York City were sent back home. Overnight, 30,000 Indians lost their jobs. They came back home, among them, many Christians. They wrote to me for prayer. When the judgment of God comes, remember: even the righteous may have to suffer. When God's judgments came upon Israel, and she was taken captive to Babylon, righteous Daniel was among them! He was a captive. When Israel was under the captivity
of another foreign nation, righteous Jeremiah was there! Righteous Nehemiah was there. The righteous saints also go into the captivity! Don't you forget that. Don't forget that. You have been duped by all the false teachers and false prophets in your country, deluding you and deceiving you into thinking that no matter what happens, you will always be protected. As a result, you are suffering from spiritual lethargy, hearing only that which you want to hear and switching off when you don't want to hear.

You know, of you it is written in the Bible, "those who have itching ears, only wanting to hear pleasant words." My dear brothers and sisters, the judgments
of God are real. The countdown has begun.

You know, India and Pakistan came this close to an all-out nuclear war. If the war took place, the whole of Pakistan would have been wiped out. Four northern states in India would have been wiped out. And the defense analysts predicted that Pakistan would have been uninhabitable for thirty years because of the nuclear dust that would be hanging over the country. The whole of north India would have been wiped out. Nepal would be wiped out. Tibet would be affected. They came this close to an all-out nuclear war. Somehow, God spared us.

My dear brothers and sisters, if you read the Holy Bible, forget about church doctrines, forget about vain traditions and teachings of men who only want to bilk you out of your money. I am declaring to you the oracles of God right now. From Genesis to Revelation, if you read the Holy Bible, it shows very clearly two things: redemptive judgment. God judges! Because He is a good God. From the garden of Eden all the way up to the book of Revelation, you will see these two themes: love and judgment.

Not just love and love, and bless me and bless me. This is how your prophets and teachers are teaching you today. And they have not only corrupted the American church, they are corrupting the Indian church. They are corrupting the Eastern church, they're corrupting the African church and they're corrupting the European church. It (unbalanced teaching) has been exported!...

Many people teach, If you are once saved, you are forever saved. That is a teaching from the pit of hell. Once saved is not forever saved. (Technically, I do believe that, but not practically.) Not from the viewpoint of God, because it is written in Matthew 24:13, "He that endures until the end, only HE shall be saved." Enduring until the end! Lot's wife did not endure until the end. As she was on the road to redemption, she left behind her heart in Sodom and Gomorrah. Her heart pulled her back. And she turned and she saw, SAVED but then suddenly DESTROYED! Don't be deceived! I tell you one more time with great love and all humility, don't be deceived that once saved is always saved. Don't be deceived that just because you are a tongue-talking Christian that you will be saved and caught up in the rapture. Don't be deceived. He that endures until the end, only he shall be saved.

Look at the story of Nineveh. Jonah went there, preaching. It took three days to walk around the whole city. For three days, he was crying out, "REPENT! If not, then in forty days you will be destroyed!" From the king to the animals, they all fasted for forty days. They repented in sackcloth. God's heart was moved with compassion. Judgment was delayed, but Nineveh was eventually destroyed because she only repented for a season, like you (America).

After 9/11, the whole nation appeared holy and repentant for a season. Now you are back to normal. You are back to your filth. You are back to your corruption, you are back to your sins. You have forgotten the repentance you did after 9/11. The vows you have made unto the living God after 9/11, you have forgotten! The altars that you had repaired after 9/11, you have forgotten! And they are back in ruins again! The Scriptures say, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever." My spirit shall not strive with man forever.

Now come with me to the New Testament, in Luke, chapter nineteen. The Lord Jesus Christ looks at the city of Jerusalem, His beloved city, His own city, He has no other city except Jerusalem. He looked at the city, and He beat His face and He cried, and cried and cried. No one had ever seen the Lord Jesus crying like that before. This was even before He cried at Lazarus's tomb. He was beating His face, beating his breast and crying bitterly. Why? Because the very people for whom He came, as the very personification of redemption, they were going to reject the Messiah.

And what would result from that rejection? Judgment. The Lord Jesus predicted, "Oh Jerusalem, you are going to be destroyed! They are going to siege you around! You are going to be utterly destroyed! Your city will be burned, you will become ashes!" He cried, like a mother crying for her baby. Thirty-three and a half years after the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Jerusalem was burned to ashes. Not one time, but three times, the city was burned to ashes. My dear brothers and sisters, did she repent?

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Part 2
Meri Burlingame
Jul 21, 2004
Part 2

ANZAC Prophetic List wrote:

Part 2 - "PROPHETIC MESSAGE to the USA CHURCH" .

-by Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj (-prophet from India).

Delivered to the church in St. Louis, June 2002.

America is good. A good nation, a giving nation, a helpful nation. And at the same time, a prideful, arrogant nation. She thinks that she has become great by the power and strength of her own might. She has forgotten that it is the Lord God that has lifted you up, blessed you, made you strong and mighty, but you have forgotten your creator.

Look at the Book of Revelation, chapter two and three, the seven messages to the seven churches that were existing at the time. None of them, except the church in Smyrna, received a (good) word from the Lord Jesus Christ. The rest of the six churches were receiving conditional judgment. If they repented, it would be well and good. If not, the Lord said (to one particular church), "I will remove your candlestick and you will be destroyed."

I was once preaching in a charismatic church in Singapore. The pastor invited me to his house for Christmas Day dinner. Together with me were his two church elders. After dinner, before I left, he said, please bless our family before you leave. I stood to pray for his family. And the Lord Jesus Christ came and stood beside me and said, "For three years, I have been coming to his church and looking for fruits, and none are bearing. Right now, I am going to cut this tree."

Then I fell on my knees, and I interceded for the church. For twenty-five minutes, I cried to the Lord. "No Lord, please don't. Please don't. Spare them Lord for one more year. The Lord Jesus heard my prayer and He said, "Because you asked, I will spare them for one more year." After the prayer, I called the pastor privately and I told him this word (from the Lord). And I totally forgot about this entire event. But, 365 days later, exactly to the day, the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me and He said, "The one year is up." I totally forgot about it. He came and reminded me. "The one year is up. And during that one year, she did not bear any fruit. NOW, the reapers will go and will cut the tree." From the moment the Lord Jesus spoke that word, I saw the tree of this church withering day by day, by day. Today, it does not exist. Even the pastor is no more the pastor of the church. The church totally closed up.

This is just one example that I have told you. I could tell you examples of many other churches where the Lord came and removed the candlestick from the other churches.

(Another) church with whom I had a very close affiliation, it's like I was a mother giving birth to the church (I gave birth to the church). But the very mother who gave birth to the church, -the very mother-, had to use a dagger to stab her, like Abraham did. One day when I was in their church, the Lord Jesus appeared to me and He said, "I am going to remove their candlestick." When I told this to the
pastor, he laughed at me. He said, "Brother, we are in the New Testament. We are under grace. How would God ever do like (what you have just said)?"

I looked at him and I said, "If I am a true prophet of God, and if that word truly came from God, it will come to pass." And I shook off the dust off my feet that day, and I never went back to that church again. But one year later, the candlestick was removed from the church. And that church is no more in existence.

My dear brothers and sisters, donâ't take your salvation for granted. Don't take your freedom for granted. Don't take the mercy of God for granted. Don't take the redemptive grace of God for granted. Several years ago, I was preaching at a conference in Sydney, Australia. You know the city of Sydney is exactly like the city of San Francisco. The very sins in San Francisco are the very sins in Sydney. The very sins that you see in New York City are the very sins in Perth. Two identical cities, on the east and west coast in your nation are the same (in these spiritual respects) cities in Australia, east and west coast. They are always gateway cities. While I was there, one evening an awesome angel came and stood before me. I am usually never fearful in the midst of angels, except when I started seeing the chief princes of nations.

But that particular angel, when he stood before me, I trembled and quaked like a leaf. And he had like a bowl in his hand. And he looked at me with a fierce look in his eyes, and he said, "I am one of the two angels that was sent out to spy Sodom and Gomorrah. And I have been sent here to spy out the city and pour this vial of judgment upon the city." Only then I understood why I was trembling. With fear, I fell on my face before God. I prayed and prayed for the city of Sydney.

I said, "Lord, not now. There is still three more days for the conference, Lord. I will gather all the Christians to repent for Sydney, to pray for this nation." For a long time I was lying on my face. Finally, the countenance on the angel's face changed. He became calmer, and he said, "I am leaving now for a season." And he left. That night I went to the conference. Seven hundred people had come, and I shared with them what I saw. All the 700 people fell down on their faces before God. For forty-five minutes -- there was no message that evening -- for forty-five minutes, they were all crying, beating their faces, beating their breasts, and beating the floors. The whole auditorium was reverberating and echoing with their tears and with their cries. Everyone from the oldest to the youngest were on their faces before God.

My dear brothers and sisters, I tell you one more truth today. As the chief prince angel of the United States of America stood before me, he said, Like the angels that went out to spy out Sodom and Gomorrah, a host of angels are walking the length and breadth of your country, spying out the land in a similar manner to how the two angels did (at Sodom)." I tell you, when the white missionaries go to the East and to Africa to preach, we hear the gospel. We turn away from our millions of gods of wood and stone, and we turn back to worship the true and living God. But the gods we give up, you are now embracing, and you are bowing down and worshiping them. So who is the greater heathen, tell me? The nations in the East? No way! Because we are turning back to the righteous God. And the supposedly Christian nation is becoming a heathen nation where you have all kinds of abomination. You know, none of the Muslim nations in the Middle East will allow (except for Bahrain, Kuwait and United Arab Emirates, except for these three countries) -- the rest of the countries would never allow a Christian church in their nation.

The largest Muslim mosque outside the Middle East is in the United Kingdom. In fact, the headquarters for their European operation and American operation is in the United Kingdom, a supposedly Christian nation. And the churches in the U.K. open their doors to allow the Muslims to come in and use their very premises for the propagation of Islam. Would they (Muslim countries) do that? They will not even allow you (to practice openly in their country). They consider Christians infidels. They will not even allow us into their churches. They will not allow us to build churches in their nations.

Whereas, we, in the name of the First Amendment, -- you know, your very freedom has become your curse. The very First Amendment that you use to promote 'freedom of speech' has become your very curse. That's what the gays are now using. The First Amendment. We (the gays, in this case) have the right to speak what we want, and you (the church) cannot disagree with us. Your freedom, your liberty, has become your curse. My dear brothers and sisters, unless you weep for your nation, great judgment is going to come. Unless rivers of intercession flow in your nation, unless tears of repentance flow from your eyes, flow from your churches and water this nation, judgments have been pronounced.

You know, there is a certain group of angelic beings called the Watchers. We only read about them in one book of the Bible. The book of Daniel, chapter four, verses 13 and 23. This specific group of angelic beings are in charge of executing and overseeing the plans of God and judgments of God over each nation. At their command, they can execute judgment. I was in the nation of Indonesia in 1998, just after the fall of a dictator that ruled that nation for thirty-two years. On the first day that I was in that nation, the chief prince angel over Indonesia entered into my room, and he said, "Whatever has happened in this nation has been decreed and ordered by the watchers in Heaven. They decreed and they said, let there be a change." And overnight, the dictator of thirty-two years was overthrown. Overnight -- it did not happen over a long period of time.

Overnight, he was overthrown -- decreed by the Watchers. The same decree has been passed. However, -- you know, when a person is sentenced to death, he can have one last final appeal to the president. Do you have this in your country?

We have this (law) there. It is called the "President's pardon". If the President chooses to pardon, the person sentenced to die can (have their sentence reduced) to life in prison. You (America) are in that stage (or situation) right now, and your only appeal is to the Heavenly Father. The final pardon is in His hands. If not (if the church in America does not give enough intercession and weeping),
9/11 was just a sample. It will be repeated and repeated.

My dear brothers and sisters, God loves you. If he did not love you, an angel would not have come to give that word. Let me tell you today how God works. If He wants to execute a judgment, He will just carry it out without informing His prophets. He would do that. Why does He tell His prophets? Amos 3:7-8- "God will not do anything before He tells His prophets." Why? So that they will pray. God wanted to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, but why tell Abraham beforehand?

So that he would intercede and pray for the salvation of Lot. He (Lot) was under the same curse. He (God) could have just destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Why inform Abraham first? Even today, God follows this same principle. Why is God informing you? So that you can be saved. So that you will repent. So that you will cry out to God. So that His entire pronouncement can be overturned, and mercy can come upon your nation. You know, it is not so much God's wrath, but the hardness of your hearts, the hardness and sins in your hearts that must be changed, and the nation will turn back from unrighteousness to righteousness. You have an awesome call upon your nation. You know, the symbol of your nation, a flying eagle, was not chosen by your forefathers by accident. An eagle is a Heavenly bird. It's supposed to be up there in the heavenlies with God, not down on the ground like a vulture, eating flesh. But you, the mighty eagle, have now become an ugly, flesh-eating vulture. The church is no better. The standards of the world have crept into the church. Are you pure?

What is the difference between you and the world? You are called to be separate. You are called to be peculiar. What is so peculiar about you if your lifestyle is exactly the same as the world? What is so peculiar? Why then should non-believing Americans get saved? Why? When the church is stinking, why should they get saved? That is the reason why many are embracing Islam. They are embracing Buddhism. Did you know, let me tell you truth, Buddhism is the fastest growing religion in North America. Not Christianity, which is decreasing in size. The church in Europe is decreasing in size. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. What's happening to you? The church is growing in the East. The church is growing in Africa. But you are shrinking. Why?

Because (your lack of loyalty or fidelity to the teachings of Christ) stinks.
Tell me now in all honesty. Do you think that you deserve the grace of God? You don't. Do you honestly believe, as you see your own condition better than I do, do you honestly think that you deserve the mercy of God? No. Yet, God is good God. His mercy endures forever. (The passage in Scripture states), "The Lord, God is good, merciful, forgiving, merciful to a thousand generations." In the many names of God that are mentioned in Scripture, three times it talks about His goodness. Only one time it says that He will judge, which means His goodness is three times greater than His judgment. My dearly beloved American brothers and sisters, the Lord Jesus Christ loves you very much. But He cannot accept a corrupted church. He loves you. If not, this meeting would not have been held.

He loves you very much. But He cannot accept a compromising church. He loves you, but He cannot accept deceiving teachers, and lying prophets. But the wheat and tares have been allowed to grow at the same time. He has allowed it, patiently waiting, hoping against all hope that you will repent. Every little judgment that He sends to you, hoping against all hope that you will repent. But you are not. You know, I fear that your fate will be as exactly what happened to

Jerusalem. The Lord Jesus said, "Prophets after prophets were sent to you, Jerusalem. Instead of embracing them, you stoned them to death. And (as) the final prophet, I am coming. You have not known the hour of your visitation, oh Jerusalem. And now, therefore, the hour is coming when you will be sieged all around, and you will be desolate." What would you like to choose? Let's all bow our head for a word of prayer. What will you choose? Will you cause a river of intercession to flow in your nation? Will you cause a river of intercession to flow in your nation? Or are you going to just sit here and let this word run down your back like water on a duck's back?

Can God count on you? Can all the hosts of Heaven count on you that you will intercede? That you will weep like Jeremiah? Can He count on you? If you are willing, get up from your seats right now, and fall down on your face before God. And lift up your heart and cry for your nation now! Lift up your hearts and cry for your nation now! Lift up your heart and cry for your nation. Oh, America, oh beautiful

America, won't you repent? Tear you heart! Tear your heart! And cry for your country! I am not asking you to cry for India! Cry for your own nation! Tear your heart. Cry out to Him for His mercy! Tell Him, "We have sinned Lord! We have sinned, Lord. We have turned our backs against you, God!" Cry out to Him. Cry out to Him now! Let the rivers of intercession flow now Oh you daughters of America, let your tears flow now, let your tears flow.

Cast away your good-for-nothing pride! Cast away your pride. Your military might is nothing before God. Cast away your arrogance. Cast away your sexual sin! Cry, cry, takes (America's) sins onto your shoulders, and cry now. Let your tears flow like rivers now. Let your tears flow like rivers. The children in the East are repenting and turning back to righteousness. Oh My children in America, will you be destroyed? Will you perish, while they who are sitting in darkness are turning back to righteousness and light? Oh ye, that were of light and sitting in the light, why have you embraced darkness? Why have you allowed your understanding to be darkened? Why have your beauties turned into corruption? Cry out to Him. Cry out to Him now. The Spirit of Christ is telling me now; the only way that righteousness can spring up in this nation is if the church will turn back to righteousness. And she will weep and sow righteousness into the land. Oh you daughters of America, don't just mechanically pray. Don't just pray because I asked you to pray. Tear your heart! Tear you inner heart! And turn back to God with weeping, with fasting, with repentance. Turn back to God! (Spirit of grace and spirit of supplication, come and abide in us!)

[Forty-five minutes or so of weeping and intercession is offered. Then Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj returned to offer these additional words]: The angel over the United States of America is still standing here. And he showed me that all your intercession (just offered) is just a drop in the bucket that he has in his hand. And the word of the Lord that has just come to me is this, "If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, seek My face and pray, and turn back from their wicked ways, I will hear their prayers, I will forgive their sins and I will heal their land." Lift up your hands to God, America.

And now this from our Kim Clement bro

[WE SHALL SEE! TIMELINE SEEMS SHORT ENOUGH!]:

Watch July 21st/Clement
Cathy Jones
Jul 21, 2004

Kim Clement
July 11, 2004- Seattle, WA

http://www.kimclement.com

Watch July 21st

"...And though the popular vote shall come and there shall be a change from Fahrenheit 911, I laugh at it because I am going to reverse the curse that came on the screen. 6 angels of death have been sent and they desire the blood of great men in this Nation, but your prayers are coming before me. And with the prophet, you are carrying to my throne and to my altar the power to destroy these spirits of death that have come to remove leaders. Once again, I will protect my president, I will protect my vice-president. I will protect in the Northeast. The spirit of death shall move to the Northeast and then down to go into Kansas, to go into Florida. These spirits of death shall be struck and instead there shall be a resurrection of life. There is a banker; there is a man that has great control over the wealth of this Nation, has the ability to change certain aspects of the economy. There is an underhanded thing that is taking place. It shall be revealed, it shall be exposed. And when these forces of death are taken care of, watch the 21st day of this month. Watch, watch, watch, watch, watch as I begin to unfold and change things."

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I read it as you requested. May God have mercy on us all! Love, Mxxx

THANKS MARY,

This is what was labeled by Meri as CONFIRMATION. Not quite sure where she was coming from on that score. Anyway--FWIW.

Thanks for reading the long one. Always appreciate your perspective.

Be safe and healthy! And hubby, too.

LUB,

SMALL STRAWS IN A SOFT WIND
Words from the Lord through Marsha Burns

July 21, 2004: The enemy has brought a curse of reproach against My people and against My name, says the Lord. This work will manifest and expose the hidden work of pride. Rejoice in the revelation of this attack of the enemy, for you have asked for all that is hidden to be exposed and brought to the light. Set a watch; this curse of reproach can be recognized as a rebuke or sense of disapproval.

You will either be used as the perpetrator or the victim of disgrace as the enemy moves stealthily among your ranks. Rise up in the power of My Spirit and break the curse and case down this work of darkness. Be free!

new Daniel Bible Study link

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1174958/posts?page=25

DREAM RE PRES BUSH AND NYC:

dream regarding Pres. Bush and NYC
Meri Burlingame
Jul 22, 2004

from Frances Beauchamps

franbtreasures@msn.com

Beloveds of GOD and Prayer Warriors, the Grace and Peace of our LORD be magnified in and through you today and always.

I do not usually post or forward the particular dreams and intercessions given to me by the LORD Jesus, except to Apostle Ken and intercessors I serve in the ministry with. However, having been given a rather stark dream with President Bush, and on the hinge of the strong prophetic word recently posted on several Lists, we dare not ignore the promptings of the LORD's Holy Spirit. [I was also given strong prophetic dreams and visions over one year before and even one week before Sept. 11th occurred. I know not to ignore such things.] PLEASE, let us be as One BODY--PRAYING!

The Word through the man of GOD from India is excerpted below, following the dream.

GOD Bless you all.
In Christ,
Sister Fran
Subject: Dream with Pres. Bush

This one was short and to the point.

[I don't recall ever having dreamed with Pres. George W. before]

I saw him on the television screen.

He was pleading the Blood of Jesus, on television, over New York. Specifically over New York. And he was quoting a Scripture from 2Peter. (I'm not sure which one, but I know for sure it was 2Pt.) I heard him saying, "I plead the Blood of Jesus over New York!"

He was grieved and speaking it strongly. He didn't care who was watching (the media, etc). The whole world was watching.

Fran

In a private chat with Meri Burlingame just now . . .

she noted that the bulk or all of the INTERCESSORS

she's in contact with are quite agitated, concerned, having extra dreams, visions etc. and all

EVEN MORE THAN WAS SIMILARLY TRUE JUST BEFORE 911.

Sounds like prayer is in order, gang!

The latest...

http://www.spiritdaily.com/lightssky.htm

Devarim: Sins of the Fathers
by Aloh Naaleh
Jul 22, '04 / 4 Av 5764

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Early in his farewell address, Moses reprimands the Children of Israel for their response to the spies' report. At first glance, it seems that Moses' reprimand is entirely misdirected. The adult generation that had left Egypt had already died in the desert; Moses was speaking to their children, who were not culpable in the matter of the spies.

Devarim is always read the Shabbat before Tisha B'Av, which commemorates the destruction of both Temples. Our sages tell us that any generation in which the Temple is not rebuilt must see itself as the generation in which the Temple had been destroyed. The reason is simple: if our generation has not merited rebuilding the Temple, it is because we are guilty of the same sins which caused the destruction. (This is especially true of sin'at chinam, needless hatred, which was the cause of the destruction of the Second Temple.)

Facing the generation that was to enter the Land, the generation which had not been involved in the sin of the spies, and addressing it as if it were the guilty generation, Moses means to issue a warning not to repeat the sin of the previous generation. In essence, Moses is saying: if your generation fails to appreciate the Land of Israel and the unique divine providence the Land enjoys, then you indeed will be as guilty as your fathers' generation.

The anonymous writer is from Jerusalem.