Free Republic

Read your post #144.

In that post you focus on Russia being a nuclear power and the threat this poses.

You were the one to specifically mention nukes in a prior post and opened the conversation up to that topic, I was replying.

With our native American history, use of the nuke, slavery, land grabs from Mexico... I do not think it's a good idea to pretend as if we have some moral high ground over the Russians and start listing the death toll or injustices committed historically. Besides, just like we are not the US of 1876, so are the Germans not the same as in 1939, or the Russians in 1967. These are junk arguments were we zoom in and out or cherry pick some incident in history to prove what we want to believe.

You stated: “The proper lesson to draw is: Do not attack us. You don't know what crazy weapons we have in skunk works.”

If the end justifies the means, then what do you think about OBL? Did his end (rid the land of Mecca of Infidel influence and occupation) justify his means? Or does that not apply to anyone else?

Back to nukes, do you know who just recently was debating using them, for real, not even for nuclear deterrence?

https://www.popsci.com/nuclear-bunker-buster/

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002-12/news/congress-approves-nuclear-bunker-buster-research

Of course it's all different if it's us. It always is. If we use a nuke, well of course it's justified, if we torture, there must be a good reason, if we mass censor, kidnap, use mercenaries, lie, sponsor coups, break treaties, attack other nations or invade them for economic gain, withdraw from treaties, cheat, coerce other nations, occupy other nations against their will... It's always acceptable because we have a “good reason.”

Whatever reason anyone else has isn't as good as our reason, because we have a monopoly on truth and justice, so only we can do these things. Russia's Nazi argument is fake but our democracy babble is real.

But it doesn't matter what you think- sorry to say it like that. At this point, anyone with half a brain understands we set some things in motion we will regret. We are the bigger and stronger kid, BUT we will also get hurt in this fight. This war in the Ukraine and the things we set in motions were unnecessary, can't really be reversed, and will have long lasting implications for us both in security and economics.

—BRICS is expanding by leaps and bounds in both members and scope.

https://www.statista.com/chart/30672/brics-expansion-map/ Even some of our allies are beginning to side with them, i.e. Egypt.

https://www.cadtm.org/Are-the-BRICS-and-their-New-Development-Bank-offering-alternatives-to-the-World (They are creating their own version of a world-bank which has been around since 2015 but now it's getting real support and growing in momentum)

—A Russian-Chinese military alliance is emerging. If you think the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact had firepower...

https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-russia-alignment-cooperation-ukraine-war-military-supplies-putin-xi-jinpin/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unpacking-the-china-russia-alliance/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-21/china-russia-iran-axis-is-bad-news-for-trump-and-gop-isolationists

—There is a slow but noticeable trend of folks divesting from the USD as the worlds reserve currency. Roughly 27% of your moneys purchasing power, of your wealth, is connected with the USD being the worlds reserve currency.

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/currencies/de-dollarization

https://www.thebanker.com/China-courts-Saudi-Arabia-as-part-of-its-de-dollarisation-strategy-1702895025 (and this is our ally and who we have built our entire Middle East strategy around!)

—The proxy wars (as in the Cold War) are starting back up and we have taken casualties already. It's just not at a level nor is there a political interest to highlight this.

Niger: https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/russian-troops-enter-base-housing-us-military-niger-us-official-says-2024-05-02/ (This is funny)

Niger: https://www.npr.org/2024/05/19/1252380146/us-troops-leave-niger

Chad: https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/politics/us-withdraws-troops-chad/index.html

Ivory Coast: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40741614

Sudan: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3371442/us-forces-evacuate-americans-from-khartoum-embassy/

—Ukraine is a failure. We have NOT achieved our stated political goal which was NATO membership for Ukraine and we failed to achieve our military goal (keep control of the Eastern parts of Ukraine everyone knew Russia would go for in this campaign).

Not only did we FAIL at meeting our stated political and military objectives, but we will also leave Ukraine a total basket case when this ends. Not Russia, Ukraine.

Imploded currency: https://g.co/kgs/HBp9kos

Debt: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/ukraine/national-government-debt BTW, most of that debt is to us - that's the modern way you create a slave state.

Infrastructure: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68976135 They now are already sucking on the rest of Europe: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-plans-record-power-imports-after-infrastructure-damage-2024-05-13/ The damage to infrastructure spans power, water, roads, rail, telecom, education, medical facilities...

Demographic disaster: Ukraine's demographics are a record setting tale. The combination of one of the lowest global birthrates 1.4 (https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1155943055/ukraine-low-birth-rate-russia-war), combined with the deaths and cripples from this war (a generational cost), and finally a massive brain-drain in the form of refugees fleeing the country
(https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/9/9e/Map_TP_March_2024V2.jpg/600px-Map_TP_March_2024V2.jpg) many never to return, have left Ukraine in an impossible situation. Ukraine was a nation of ~41,000,000 (2021) where today (2024) only ~21,000,000 are actually in Ukraine.

GDP: https://www.intellinews.com/ukraine-puts-in-first-gdp-growth-since-the-war-began-293912/ We just don't talk about it as we dream of winning with our wonder weapons, bogus casualty reports, imaginary hero's winning in the air (Ghost of Kiev) and ground (Snake Island), but Ukraine's GDP shrunk by ~37% since wars begin. Let me put that in context for you, when we had our Great Depression, the GDP went down by roughly 30%: https://www.britannica.com/event/Great-Depression Ukraine, the obvious winner in this war, can't pay their retirees, federal employees, nor keep essential public services running without constant Western aid.

But I shouldn't be concerned. We're a democracy, and with God always being on our side, and people seeing how inspirational/hopeful we are, wanting to follow us even if that means pointing a gun in their face, we have nothing to worry about. (sarc)

Things are NOT going as envisioned.

Maybe the real lesson we should learn is that it's better to bully little guys, retards in the Middle East, Central America, that can't really fight a combined and joint war, don't have a mechanized force, large military, air and sea power, a huge IC, and no real means to fight back. Maybe the lesson we should learn is to respect Russia the same way we respect China (PRC) today. Russia is not as big and powerful as we are today, in any aspect except landmass, but they are still powerful enough to push back.

That is probably a lesson already learned by this administration even though that's something they would never admit and all the rest of us will get to pay for long after those responsible for this war (Biden/Blinken/Nuland/Sullivan...) have moved on. Long after Biden is dead, this legacy will continue to haunt us.

Iraq: oil producer, Russian aligned, invaded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

Syria: oil producer, Russian formal ally, invaded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

Libya: oil producer, Russian aligned, attacked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

Venezuela: oil producer, Russian aligned, several coups attempts, the last one in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)

Sorry that my answer is short to you. I’m not trying to be an @ss, but I don’t want to waste my time.

I got it, you were born with a genetic link to be an American, there is an American gene so it’s biological, not an identity. It also makes you superior and always right.

I’m sure it’s just all coincidental that all the struggles are in countries that have a significant economic value to us, that once were Russian allies or aligned, where we are invading their space.

I got it, “democracy, human rights, sovereignty, terrorism, WMD.”

Knight in shining silver armor.

Yes,

You stated: “Nothing moves without oil.”

And there are only two nations in the world that control all of this, the US and Russia.

All other nations are operating on the ground that in the background is controlled either by the US or Russia. Example: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan belong to the US; Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Libya belong to Russia.

Even if it’s Shell, BP, Agrip, Fina, or Total etc. they are operating in an area where the true person in control is the US or Russia.

The division of control is about 2/3rds of the world is under our control, and 1/3rd under Russian control.

However, we have been trying very hard to gain a foothold in those areas that are in the Russian sphere of influence, in particular Syria, Libya, Venezuela, and Iraq (once was more aligned with Russia than us).

Russia is a “has-been” power. There is no Soviet Union nor Warsaw pact, albeit out of necessity Russia is aligning itself with the PRC/China today.

Russia is weak in conventional terms and we are going after them all while we pretend this is about “WMD, democracy, human rights, terrorism, sovereignty” and as if we are the ones defending even though we attacked and invaded Syria (WMD and human rights), invaded Iraq (WMD and terrorism), attacked Libya (human rights), attempted a coups in Venezuela (democracy and human rights) which failed and where we got caught red handed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)

I wonder, since we care so much about human rights and democracy, when will we sever ties or pressure Saudi Arabia or Jordan to reform? When will we cut economic ties to the PRC which is probably one of the worst when it comes to democracy and human rights? “Democracy, human rights, WMD, sovereignty, terrorism” are idiot slogans for the masses to justify military interventions that are most often for economic and political gain and where there is zero self-defense/national security argument for us.

Sure-

Using Wikipedia in lieu of a Congressional document with the DoD as the original source regarding DoD operations, because Wikipedia leaves out (omits) more and gives a better “feel good” answer, probably isn’t the most intelligent or honest thing to do.

That said, even “humanitarian operations” can be armed conflicts where bullets fly back and fourth. Humanitarian operation: https://www.britannica.com/event/Somalia-intervention

Minor events need excluded... By who’s definition minor? Yours, or the guy on the receiving end of what is supposed to be intimidation / treats, or just a the “few” people that were killed, or us arming a third party to do the killing for us? Games with definitions show a deliberate attempt at being insincere in this debate. How about using a common definition, i.e. same definition throughout as that Congressional document does?

I get that you and others want to defend our nation, you self identify as American and as a more nationalist minded person, derive part of your self identity from that, especially for most who ever served in the military. However, you need to “attempt” to stay objective.

We have become quick to use force to further our policies, whatever they may be. It works for us.
There was and still mostly is no competition. We’re the only worlds super-power albeit China (PRC) is crawling up our back today.

We act with impunity since we are so big militarily, with our IC, economy, industry, in political influence, with allies we can round up around any cause (politically and economically tied to us) as well as being insulated by an Atlantic, Pacific and allies (both in Europe and Asia) that act as a buffer between us and threats. This has caused us to become quick to use force and also use force where it is very questionable. It’s quick, easy, often cheap (in comparison), can show “decisive action” by some political figure that can grandstand, and there are almost no repercussions for us.

So you get this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4kFxyHALo He’s recommending invading, and then backed off to recommend attacking a neighbor, NAFTA member, which poses zero true national security threat. Of course he used the words “WMD, terrorists, national security” in his statements...

Pacifism nor total isolationism are realistic. War is a reality. But using military force for mere economic and/or political gain, in some cases where we are disposing of a democracy and installing a dictator (Chile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat), or securing a dictator/kingdom (Saudi Arabia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_National_Guard We basically built the Saudi National Guard which is a Praetorian Guard for the royal family/king) at the expense to democracy, freedom, human rights is hardly being a knight in shining silver armor. We throw these terms “democracy, human rights, sovereignty even terrorism and WMD” around liberally, but they have become vapid slogans for what are usually politically and economically motivated military campaigns.

Never were we perfect angels (example Chile provided above), but we were generally on the right side of things and most of our military interventions in the Cold War were justifiable claiming self defense. Not the case today. Post Cold War (1991) we began sliding in a very bad direction and that became even worse post 9-11 in many respects, especially in how we operate: massive use of mercenary armies, torture, kidnapping, assignations, significantly side stepping the US Constitution, and today with mass censorship and government sponsored propaganda as well as an intel service partially aimed inward. This is a very bad trend not only in our foreign policy and in how we use our military, but also domestic where today you have an IC that does resemble the Stasi/KGB: mass surveillance, use of FISA powers against political opponents, eliminating the leadership of opposition groups that would be a problem (J6). Today people like you want to pretend we’re so different than the Russians, when in reality you have “political prisoners” rotting away after they were brought before a kangaroo court.

To a Libyan, Iraqi or Syrian, we are no liberators. We do not bring democracy, human rights, and we sure as hell do not respect their sovereignty. We’re just another flag trying to plant itself on their soil so we can pump oil and gas.

Propaganda is government sponsored Information Operations in order to influence perceptions and thereby behavior.

In the corporate world you would call it advertising.

As a private citizen a personal view or opinion if it's not listing mere facts.

The US censoring ~40 Russian media outlets, most Russian government sites, self censoring in social media, etc. does not need to worry about Russian propaganda.

You're not getting much Russian propaganda. You have to literally search for it and get around censors. But you are getting a good dose from our own government.

Did you call the following “propaganda?” when these stories were hot?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61285833 (imaginary Ghost of Kiev)
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/ukraine-russia-snake-island-attack-intl-hnk-ml/index.html (The “F-off” story from Snake Island)
https://www.newsweek.com/2023/05/05/read-leaked-secret-intelligence-documents-ukraine-vladimir-putin-1794656.html#slideshow/ (imaginary casualties while our own government knows the truth but won't tell folks)
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/ (a little praise for neo-Nazi’s isn't so bad as long as it's for the right cause)

Colloquially, people tend to use the term “propaganda” liberally for any argument or even mere statement of fact which may be derogatory regards ones own beliefs, feelings, opinions.

Anything we don't like we label with the pejorative “propaganda.”

We rejected the Russians even as they were trying to near, even align, themselves with the West in all aspects: politically, militarily, economically.

Specifically, there were some European nations which opened up to the Russians.

However, eventually it became apparent that the US in particular was more interested in expanding into the Russian sphere of influence, expanding the size and scope of its military alliance, in complete disregard of Russian interests.

We broke promises (NATO East expansion), withdrew from treaties (Ballistic Missile Treaty), violated treaties and conventions made by others (Minsk, Montreux), and were trying to get our fingers into literally every oil and gas producing nation aligned or even formally allied with Russia (Libya, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela), trying to expand our military alliance to their border and build bases there.

Russian disarmament (post Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union) simply became a weakness we can exploit. That is a reality Russia woke up to with Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia in 2004. They weren’t going to let that happen again as evidenced by the Republic of Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014 or now Ukraine 2022.

Since we care so much about democracy, human rights and sovereignty, maybe we should build a military base on Taiwan! I wonder why we won’t do that. We won’t do that because the PRC is powerful, we respect power, and we saw Russia as weak. It’s “us” that is the big shark.

Try thinking and making arguments, and use less emotional words that really are no argument. Are we a kleptocracy? Are you telling me that most of our Congress who become rich in some cases even worth billions are doing so on their “public servant” salaries? Are you telling me the Biden’s are clean? Are you telling me most governors of states are clean? Stop it with the dumb word-feelings associations. That’s for dummies.

Is Russia corrupt? Sure. So are we. One of my former governors: https://www.cnn.com/2011/09/15/opinion/krumholz-beckel-perry-pharmaceutical/index.html

The US is an oligarchy, no different than Russia: www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdfhttps://www.cnn.com/2011/09/15/opinion/krumholz-beckel-perry-pharmaceutical/index.html

A few rich and very powerful people basically influence the elections, laws, government regulations, and their enforcement disproportionately. These people and the corporations/banks/NGO’s they steer, simply change the laws if they do not like them, literally: https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/how-disney-routinely-exerted-influence-on-the-us-copyright-law-to-keep-its-greatest-asset-mickey-mouse-549141 This is true if you’re talking about pharma, agra, big tech today... On MOST issues where the public interest and opinion stands in conflict with the interests of our oligarchs, the interests of the oligarchs are served.

But here are some facts regards the nuclear issue you address: Russia never used a nuke on someone. Russia conducted less atmospheric tests. Russia conducted less space tests. And MOST the radiation floating out there today from these tests is from us since the Russians even went as far as using lead tamping to reduce the radiation yield by >90%, while we just lit them off one after the other in the Pacific. Because we’re so rational.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests

You must be talking about us?

There is a reason why we treat Russia differently than the PRC.

Let’s use your BS human rights, democracy, and sovereignty arguments we always use as justifications for war.

Who do you think is FAR-FAR worse, Russia or the PRC in any one of them?

Russia doesn’t have 1 million people in internment camps, they aren’t the worlds champion in executions, nor do they have forced abortions, had a one child policy, oppress religion, questionable organ harvesting policies, they aren’t governed by a single Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and make dissidents disappear all the time...

But we would NEVER dare mess with Taiwan the way we did with Ukraine, in fact we don’t even mention the human rights abuses in the PRC if possible and we have wiped Tibet completely off the radar.

The PRC is a major hub for US manufacturing, holds onto a lot of US securities, is one of the worlds largest markets for US made products, has a lot of influence in the US via lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by their US based subsidiaries. The PRC actually has a big military, in fact they try to downplay their size and modernization. It is the PRC which is a true near peer threat, not Russia: https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/China-Military-Budget-Graphic.png?x85095 Finally, the PRC has some influence on the US media and is permitted to blast their side of the story to the US audience via a laundry-list of CCP owned media (some US brand outlets they own) which is permitted free reign in the US.

So, we play very nice with the PRC, but hardball with Russia. What’s the difference?

You're trying to create some sort of delineation where there is none playing with words, where Russians are not Christian or European enough by your definition. Goofy-

Next you'll use the word “annex” like some other guy to make up some polemic/rhetorical difference for how us attacking, invading and sponsoring coups isn't so bad either, since we didn't annex them. Laughable-

Add to this list of similarities that the Russians (Rusland in German, or land of the Rus) share. The Rus are Vikings originally from Sweden (ever wonder why so many Russians are blond and have blue eyes?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

Anyway, it's funny you want to start playing the game of definitions and creating some litmus test in order to be European or Christian enough, coming from a society where we have 15,000 different Protestant flavors today (literally), some of which think dogs go to heaven, others worry a lot about climate change, still others have female priests and worry a lot about the feminist cause while supporting abortion, finally some are 100% on board with LGBTQIA and have homo priests and bishops, allow for homo weddings... What about churches that de facto adopt socialism as part of their doctrine like the Catholics are doing under Francis? Are you telling me there is no mixing of religion and politics in the US?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/us/elections/over-1600-clergy-members-and-other-religious-figures-endorse-biden.html

When in a glass house...

Are we 100% the same? No. But are we very similar? Yes.

It's really a struggle over control of the worlds energy reserves and we are the one that is offensive and expanding into their sphere of influence all while pretending like we're defensive. We keep using the same old faux arguments of “democracy (Venezuela), human rights (Libya), WMD (Syria/Iraq) and sovereignty (Ukraine)” as rationalizations. The US controls 2/3rds and Russia 1/3rd of the worlds energy resources and everyone either falls on our side like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar; or their side like Venezuela, Iran, Libya, Syria...

This isn't the Cold War anymore. It's not us being defensive, a free and decentralized society, with a true free press and some government transparency and accountability, facing off with a Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union that is in part on an ideological conquest. Today, the line (if there even is one) regards who is the good guy and bad guy is far more blurry.

People like you want to pretend that our bombs, missiles, covert operations, lies, cheating, propaganda, assignations, censorship, torture, kidnappings are somehow more moral compared to those “evil Russians.”

Wooops, sorry about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri Image: https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/images/921c0226-26a6-48ed-9a77-a30b21d7d9ce_w1024_r1.4349164467897977_fpx64.12_fpy50.webp But we did it for democracy, sovereignty and human rights, so it's OK. Like GITMO was OK too, right? Do you realize, while you use these cliche's to justify every war, we were kidnapping people in allied nations (extraordinary rendition), dragging them off to third party nations, where we tortured the $hit out of them (enhanced interrogations) and then lie and claim “we don't do that” like Bush W. said even though his signature is on the authorization for such. And no worries, no US bureaucrat has ever been held accountable! When you do it for democracy, human rights and sovereignty, you can do almost anything, like blow up gas pipelines allied nations depend on. When God tells you that you are right, when you have a genetic predisposition for being moral, like we have, you can violate treaties like Minsk and Montreux, lie about NATO East expansion, withdraw from the Ballistic Missile Treaty, stomp all over someone else’s back yard, and then in a total hypocritical fashion (since we would NEVER tolerate a foreign power on our border) expect Russia to swallow such a $hit pill.

The position we put Russia in regards Ukraine was so over the top ridiculous, that this is actually one of the reasons why IMHO, I believe it is probable that it was at least a major consideration and a known expectation that a war would happen. A war between Ukraine and Russia would benefit us Geo-politically in our struggle with Russia over control of their frontier nations by weakening an already weak near peer in conventional terms. Best of all, such a conflict would have the Ukrainians bleeding and the Euro's (NATO) partially financing it, while we are the ones standing to benefit on the world stage. In other words, we saw a weak opponent and opportunity to play someone against them, benefiting us in our ability to take away what is theirs elsewhere: Libya, Venezuela, Syria, Niger, etc. But I do not think things worked out the way we expected. Machiavelli is probably more appropriate than your stories of democracy, sovereignty, and human rights regards Ukraine.

It's not that Russia is the good guy, they are not. But neither are we. In typical fashion you try to dehumanize the “enemy” no differently than we did with the Germans, Japanese, Indians, Mexicans, Blacks in the past, and of course on their side there are people who do the same to us. Many people have been dehumanized: Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Chinese, etc. but it's usually wrong. People are pretty much people and when folks attempt to dehumanize a group, that should actually set off alarm bells regarding the one attempting to do such.

The Russians are a Christian and Euro based culture. They are ethnic Slavs, which are Euro.

Eastern Orthodox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church
Slavs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

You go to great lengths to try to pretend you’re better than someone else.

The sad thing is that it’s not that Russia became so liberal (they moved a little bit in that direction) but that we moved in their direction towards a centralized government. It’s us today that are all about equality/equity, secular at best and outright atheist at worst, globalist (”workers of the world unite” was the commie slogan and we’re the ones pushing that crap today).

This could practically be a recruiting poster (all the different races etc) for any US government agency today, just add some women and replace the hammer and sickle with a US government agency emblem: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/342766221623847371/

The US today is a nation no different than Russia. We’re little better off economically. But, we have surrendered true freedom for security (none of the first ten amendments/Bill of Rights mean anything anymore), centralized power in our bureaucracy and capital, have elections about as real as those in Russia (even though we mock the Russians our elections are a joke too), a government share of the GDP that is about the same as Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDP, we have side stepped the US Constitution in procedures, adopted policies and MO’s that are similar to Russia (we torture, kidnap assassinate), mass censor, mass propagandize our own public, use our intel services heavily inside our own country...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

But sure, we’re entirely different because it makes you feel better. (sarc)

You’re Brad Pitt. You’re a democracy, human rights and sovereignty warrior, in shining silver armor anointed by God! (sarc)

Here’s the truth and it won’t make you feel good. People are people and we Americans are able and willing to do EVERYTHING the worst Nazi’s did, the worst commies did, in fact what Saddam and Mao did.

People are inherently bad, full of sin, including you and I. What kept us straight in the past was that we had a society that had some semblance of morality (that’s gone today) and a government that was impotent (weak -confined by a US Constitution). Yes, our government did NOT have the power and ability to do these things and that’s why we were a little bit better historically. The Constitution is a document that basically confines government (no longer the case either), sets limits to it’s powers, etc. It’s not that we didn’t have the same ideas, the same type of people, willing to do the same things, it’s just when they wanted to practice Eugenics in the US we couldn’t do it quite as efficiently as the Germans did in the Holocaust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

Fact: We began pushing for NATO membership of Ukraine October 2021 in full force: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

Fact: It was after we pushed for Ukraine to become a NATO member that Russia began building up military forces along the border of Ukraine and conducting live fire training exercises (October 2021 - Feb 2022).

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/01/satellite-russia-ukraine-military-518337

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/18/russia-has-amassed-up-to-190000-troops-on-ukraine-borders-us-warns

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-mass-ukraines-border-west-worries-isnt-last-time-rcna7203

Fact: It was after we pushed for Ukraine to become a NATO member that Russia sent Lavrov on a world tour trying to get anyone he can rally to convince us to back off this idea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59503762

https://www.timesofisrael.com/lavrov-russia-doesnt-want-war-with-ukraine-but-will-defend-its-interests/

Fact: Russia attempted to engage us on several occasions regards this issue. They (Putin, Lavrov, etc) openly stated this is their “red-line.” We entirely stonewalled them. No compromises, no negotiations, nothing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60145159

https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-moscow-cd558699728e9ae935eaadf940efeb18

I’m sure it makes you feel better thinking that it’s a genetic cause, that Russians are just evil, while God anointed us to do his will.

I’m sure it sounds better to you that Putin is a “madman” or has some “mental illness” while our coherent and always on point Biden is sharp and fast as members of his staff claim.

Who knows what you’re thinking, but one thing is for sure, just claiming it’s “complete nonsense” that NATO East expansion caused this war makes no sense and is no argument.

FYI, an actual decent historical perspective about Russia’s claim that we betrayed them regards NATO East expansion: https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

Redmen4ever,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Source regarding the 251 military operations since 1991: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R42738

It’s in a Congressional report (simply add them up).

No doubt we’re expansionist and succeeding in tearing what once were Warsaw Pact nations, Soviet Republics, or nations in the Russian sphere of influence (historically allied or aligned with Russia but not part of the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact) under our control. One only needs to look at Syria, Iraq, Venezuela and Libya to see that (all oil and gas producers).

Russia and the US are not so unlike each other. In fact, I would argue that today it’s us that is more like them, with a highly centralized government in Washington (the States have lost their powers), a massive intelligence agency that is in the political sphere and used inside the nation, mass censorship and control over the public, a pseudo-democracy, a Constitution that is selectively ignored by government when convenient, with just a few oligarchs who have a disproportionate influence on government.

Both the US and Russia are oligarchies, not real democracies: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B On (((MOST))) issues where the public interest diverges from those of the oligarchs (say trade with the PRC), the interests of the oligarchs are accommodated by government.

These campaigns are about Western and US oligarchs wanting what once or still is in the Russian sphere.

Here’s the problem, winning does not make us moral nor does it justify war, i.e. Just War concept. The layperson would say: “might does not make right.” Military interventions for mere political, or for economic benefit are not what our military nor NATO are intended for. The US military is no foreign legion nor is it supposed to operate in the best interest of some political figure or economic benefactor as the Roman legions did. There is such a thing as a “just war,” but those are rather the exception today, not the norm.

Two distinct things happened which brought us to this point:

1). In 1991 when the Soviet Union and before that the Warsaw Pact dissolved, it left us as the only worlds super-power. China was an emerging power. In the words of Lord Acton: “Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.” Our policy makers quickly learned that they can rely on military force to get what they want. It became the quick and easy solution for every problem since unrivaled in military and economic power, as well as political influence we could basically do what with impunity. When you have a tool that works really well for you, guess what you tend to use?

Examples:

—No different than J. Cesar grabbing notoriety and popularity by invading Gaul, so is Lindsey Graham with Mexico: https://www.newsweek.com/lindsey-graham-mexico-military-drug-kidnapping-1786025 Threatening to attack a nation because it “sounds good” in what is political theater.

—In Serbia we wanted an end to the conflict (no direct national threat to us). The quickest, path of least resistance, and lowest cost way to achieve that was to bomb Serbia into submission. What did we really demand of Serbia? The average American doesn’t even know! We wanted the Serbs to give up land for people that were originally refugees from Albania when that country went communist. Most of these people are a Muslim (stemming from the Muslim invaders of Europe in the past) subculture found themselves oppressed in Albania. Tito let these people in: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000500170170-2.pdf That is why you have so many Serbs living in Bosnia today and how you have folks originally from Albania and Muslim in the middle of what once was YU: http://www.catsg.org/balkanlynx/03_countries/3_4_map-centre/maps-grafics/UniversityofTexas_1992_Map_of_Ethnics_in_former_Yugoslavia.jpg But we conveniently do not mention any of this when we rationalize our bombing of Serbia with our “human rights, democracy, and sovereignty” cliche’s. The Croats are aligned with the Germans, so no one wanted to mess with them. Some of former YU is aligned with the Greeks. The French had ties there too. But the Serbs were/are aligned with Russia which had just imploded 4 years prior. It was a political and militarily expedient solution for the Euro’s and where we were trying to keep NATO alive (at that time NATO was being questioned). We pat ourselves on the back to this day, but was it morally right? Hardly. Will this peace last? No.

—Then there is Iraq. We lied about WMD and AQ being there, so we invaded under false pretenses. Few folks trying to rationalize this war mention the casualties there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War We never left and lied about that in 2011. That was just an Obama re-election PR stunt and the MSM went along with it. However, we retained >5,100 troops in country at the time (in big secure/fortress like bases on the outskirts of cities because the locals do not like us), have a vast mercenary force there and other security personnel (US State Department and CIA) as well as Iraqi’s we pay. No one wants us there, except some of the Kurds in the North. But neither Suni or Shi’ia want us there (<3%) and we have been asked to leave numerous times, which we simply ignore (the most recent request): https://breakingdefense.com/2024/01/despite-iraqi-pms-call-us-troops-wont-likely-leave-iraq-anytime-soon-analysts/ Let me ask you this, do you think Iraq is safer today than under Saddam? Do you think the presence of radical Islamist types and AQ went up or down in Iraq after we went there? Hint, Saddam was secular, his Ba’ath party was secular...

2). 2001 changed things also. After 2001 we massively expanded the scope of powers of the “police state” (Patriot Act etc.) as well as growing the apparatus and aiming it partially inward. While the initial targets may have been legitimate, going after those that attacked us on 9-11, it quickly morphed into something else both externally and internally. Post 2001 the US became even more assertive/aggressive, using more dubious techniques (just like the Russians: torture, kidnapping, assassinations, side stepping the US Constitution even more), and while some of these technical capabilities or processes may have already been in place, example FISA, they became used much more liberally (secret courts, violations of due process, illegal search and seizure/privacy with mass surveillance: again, no different than Russia).

We took things to far and have pissed off to many folks. Sure, there are those inside the US that believe in this garbage that somehow we are Gods anointed people and that we drop freedom bombs and fire democracy missiles at all our enemies. There are some such as yourself that think some process like Democracy makes us special (there are many nations that have democratic processes) albeit our democracy is riddled with manipulations which really question how real/true it is (again, no different than Russia). Do not be surprised if Biden gets re-elected. He is the favorite by the establishment (deep state), our oligarch who own the MSM and largely pay for the political system. It doesn’t matter if Biden needs a bib and diapers, he stands a good chance of being “elected” if you want to call it that.

I would argue, that in the past what made us special was that we believed in freedom and had certain moral underpinnings (there is a reason why there is a Statue of Liberty), we were reserved with the use of military force (Reagan: powerful and willing to use force, but defensive).

1986 and the bombing of Libya was justified, they attacked a disco and killed a bunch of people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_United_States_bombing_of_Libya 1986 (retaliation / defensive - minimize collateral damage) is very different from 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya (offensive - complete disregard for consequences) We once were the “good guy” but today that’s not the case. No kidding, the jets of several US oil execs were on the ground in Libya even before the incidents surrounding the attacks on our ambassador. In fact, we had to use the jets of oil execs to evacuate some of our folks. Do you really think this is about peace (as we armed certain militias there), or democracy (we were arming warlords that were not interested in democracy), or human rights? Do you think Libya today is more secure than before our attacks in 2011? Do you think Libya today poses less of a threat regards terrorism? AFTER we plunged this nation into a civil war we have actual areas under ISIS/ISIL and other Islamist groups control, no kidding:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.KHfMDQhr4ji_-oxfTmvbfQHaHL%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=46fd8b089c19cc3e5e9a0df19f00e085760095a3817e0a84a0d06b015d82ffb3&ipo=images (but now we have our foot in the door and are trying to pull this place out from Russia’s influence and put it under ours.)

Offensive, expeditionary campaigns where we cannot articulate a national security threat (other than some abstract idea or some boogieman that isn’t real) and are motivated by political or economic interests are NOT moral.

We have no problem overthrowing a democratically elected government and installing a despot if that democratic government collides with our economic interests (we don’t export liberty today). We have no problem with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia around which our entire Middle East strategy is based. We have no problem with the kingdom of Jordan. We have no problem with China, a single party communist regime which is regards humans rights about as bad as it gets and even as they literally drive tanks over pro-democracy students on Tienanmen Square (1989) we vote to give them most favored trade status and support their admission to the WTO regardless if it was Bush H., Bill C., or Bush W. and today Joe B. Only Trump went against the current.

Things are changing. We set wheels in motion we will regret. We (the average Joe Public) just does not realize this yet. When someone acts like a jerk and pushes folks around (coercive/threatening: Mexico, Pakistan...), lies (No NATO East Expansion), cheats (Minsk and Montreux), and does whatever they want because they’re the big kid on the playground and they don’t need follow rules (bring others to international courts but exempt oneself), not even those rules they created (Ballistic Missile Treaty or supporting Israel), they eventually have others gang up on them, and that’s what’s starting to happen: BRICS, Russia-China security alliance, even our neighbor and NAFTA member Mexico, etc. https://biblehub.com/proverbs/16-18.htm

We should have stepped on the breaks a while back, but instead pushed the accelerator peddle.

Yes,

It will be a struggle and it will take time.

But that’s the only “true fix.”

The mass immigration is a short term solution that ultimately destroys the culture of the host/receiving nation and creates all new problems.

It undermines the value system long term. Look at Dearborn Michigan as an example.

Brining in massive amounts of South Americans, Chinese, Indians, Africans... This brings it’s own problems but it does in the short term stuff the demographic hole.

Tell me what point you disagree with?

I’ll gladly back it up for you.

Bla bla bla.

This war was started by us in October 2021 with our NATO move.

And it is continued by us with a constant flow of money and weapons.

The victory parades and slogans are already beginning to fade away from our media. We are already beginning to “manage expectations.”

What is left is a very grim reality and future for Ukraine. Not Russia, but Ukraine who’s currency is worthless, Ukraine that is massively indebted, Ukraine that is looking at a demographic implosion, Ukraine that lost >37% of their GDP, Ukraine that that went to war over NATO and won’t be a member, but also lost all chances of EU membership which was in reach before the war, Ukraine which lost ~16% of their landmass, a major industrial area, their steel industry and major port city.

What you’re left with are imaginary casualties, wonder weapons, dreams about counter-offensives that go no where, some “hope” today that Ukraine doesn’t lose land any faster than they are.

And who is in a “forever war?” Since 1991 we (the US) have had 251 different real world military operations around the world. We have our troops in more nations than anyone else, have more troops outside our border than anyone else, spend more on war than anyone else, sell more arms than anyone else, attacked more nations than anyone else, invaded more nations than anyone else, sponsored more coups than anyone else, have one of the biggest military’s in manpower, have one of the biggest nuclear arsenals but the most weapons deployed... We have not had (((one day of peace))) in 33 years since the Cold War ended (the end of the Cold War only made us become more belligerent - without the balance of power by the Soviets and Warsaw Pact), and it’s us that’s attacking, invading, and sponsoring coups while talking about peace.

It took decades to dig this hole.

When Murphy Brown aired in 1988, this anti-child and anti-marriage culture was already in full swing. Madonna, Cindy Lauper.... Materialism, consumerism, having fun, me, me, me...

This show simply echoed the prevailing cultural values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Brown

—Abortion
—Sterilization
—Contraception
—The Dual income childless couple
—Careerism by women and waiting to have children

In typical fashion, the writer of this article is looking for a quick fix. A magic pill. A single simple solution which will fix everything when we wake up tomorrow.

The simplest, cheapest, and fastest solution is the one championed.

There is a quick, easy and wrong way, and there is a longer term approach, that is more difficult, but the right way.

Politicians, business, and bureaucrats tend to opt for the wrong way in such cases. They are driven by short time horizons, the need to show immediate results, the path of least resistance, and to keep things as cheap as possible.

If we want to fix this, and frankly all Western nations are in the exact same boat (North America and Europe, even South Korea, Japan, and Australia), we need to ask ourselves some very hard questions that fly in the face of feminism, LGBTQIA, our concept of equity, even some environmental ideas...

The real culprit is a perverted value system (socially dysfunctional, unnatural, immoral, historically culturally unacceptable), a way of thinking which has been inculcated in government policies, education, and the arts and media. We as a society have been proselytizing values which are destructive for years because somehow some often inconsistent, non-doctrinal, and irrational arguments were created which sound good and were adopted by the masses/society.

If society were to preach that folks should play Russia roulette (1 in 6 chance), that would make more sense than what we’re doing regards LGBTQIA+ and HIV/AIDS (1 in 5 chance): https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68M3H2/ https://www.salon.com/2010/09/23/us_med_aids_urban_gays/ But somewhere, somehow it became taboo to even ask the question if advertising for a behavior that is self destructive is smart. Society has adopted a laundry list of these dysfunctional ideas and the results are now becoming apparent. Is it really smart to wait to have children if genetic illnesses rise with age? Is it really smart for a society that isn’t even replenishing its own population to pay for abortions, sterilizations, and contraception?
Is it smart to have a tax code and benefits/entitlements in a society that is below a birthrate of 2.1 and falling, to incentivize having a child with $500 a year, but pay $1,650 a month for HIV preventing medication per individual? https://www.hiv.gov/federal-response/ending-the-hiv-epidemic/prep-program

It took YEARS to get here. It will take years to fix this, and the resistance will be high, since you’re talking about making changes that involve what people today see as noble and ethical values, personal rights..

Typical of today’s bureaucrats.

Criminal behavior.

No consequence.

Why do you think HRC was running her own server? If it could be derogatory or a potential issue in the future, do it through alternative communication channels where you have control of the information, have meetings on tarmacs, don’t do it in writing (keep it oral)... Of course use the classification system to hide it... And then when caught destroy the evidence and never face any repercussions.

No election process is perfect.

When it comes to elections, accuracy and resistance to manipulation should be more important than convenience.

Today’s election process: Only those who are happy with the outcome claim elections are fair nowadays.

A nation of extremes.

30 years ago they would nail you to the wall with a law book and beat you with a cross if you got caught with a little weed. Today they hand you money for opening a pot shop.

But everything is that way.

LGBTQIA, years ago taboo, would get you denied many jobs, no security clearance, most people wouldn’t vote for a homo, has become a badge of honor, some act of courage to “come out of the closet” with society applauding one for being a homo.

Interracial marriages, now it’s cool, all over TV, in advertising...

Socialism, once a pejorative is now a term that college kids label themselves with pridefully.

Abortion once illegal is now essentially on demand, tax subsidized, in the open...

Mental illness was once a stigma no one wanted. Today MOST kids see a shrink before they turn 18, 1/4 of them are on drugs, and everyone is literally competing over how is the bigger victim and has it harder (i.e. no privilege). Yeah, a bunch of fat kids growing up with computers, TV, the Internet, with AC, accessible health care... are crying about how hard they have it.

There was a time where every politician wrapped themselves up in Christian symbols and pretended to be moral. Now most want to distance themselves from the religious right.

Everything in this country is a fad/trend and is taken to an extreme.

There is no moderation.