Posted on 09/11/2020 12:59:47 AM PDT by Sontagged
“[Christmas Day] was the old pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god and celebrated when the days began to get longer.”
Modern scholarship has debunked that. Christians, rightly or wrongly as far as the day, were celebrating December 25 before the Romans used the day to celebrate their paganism.
Ya, I’m tired of the same ol’ every Christian important date was created to mask over some pagan data, you know, that ol’ chestnut ...
Could you site the scholarship sources you reference? Thank you.
Various other non-Roman and non-Christian regions already had the winter solstice in effect. You can even cite the Incas for notice of the effect of the day.
Here’s what I read a while ago how we get Dec. 25. In the gospel of Luke we read of Zachariah serving in the temple and getting a visitation from the angel Gabriel foretelling him of his son to be born. It is known by his division that his time of service would have been in late September. 6 months later Mary is visited by Gabriel. The annunciation and conception of Jesus is said to be March 25 followed by her visit to her cousin Elizabeth pregnant with John the Baptist. In days of old this date was honoured and celebrated even more than Christmas. Dec. 25 is nine months later.
First time I heard that speculation. I understand that for historians and religious scholars, a literal date is of great importance, but it matters not to me.
Whenever it happened, the physical world has been a better place ever since.
Most likely, the exact date will always be a matter of dispute, since Mary and Joseph were trying to keep a low profile anyway.
Wasn’t there a King nearby looking for all male newborns so that his soldiers could kill them?
Put a yule log on the fire means what?
E W Bullinger has a very extensive explanation in the appendix of his Companion Bible. His dates are as follows. See the tables and details at link.
A.M. = Anno Mundi; i. e. in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; i. e. in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.D. = Anno Domini; i. e. in the year of the Lord.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditœ; i. e. the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.
A.M. — B.C.-A.D. — A.C. — A.U.C.
4000 THE NATIVITY 4 | 0 | 749 Herod d.c. end 28 Our Lord b. 15th Tisri=29th Sept. 4 B.C.
1. It thus appears without the shadow of a doubt that the day assigned to the Birth of the Lord, namely, December 25, was the day on which He was “begotten of the Holy Ghost”, that is to say, by pneuma hagion = divine power (Matthew 1:18, 20 marg.), and His birth took place on the 15th of Ethanim, September 29, in the year following, thus making beautifully clear the meaning of John 1:14, “The Word became flesh” (Matthew 1:18, 20) on 1st Tebeth or December 25 (5 B.C.), “and tabernacled (Greek eskenosen) with us”, on 15th of Ethanim or September 29 (4 B.C.).
The 15th of Ethanim (or Tisri) was the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Circumcision therefore took place on the eighth day of the Feast = 22nd Ethanim = October 6-7 (Leviticus 23:33-43). So that these two momentous events fall into their proper place and order, and the real reason is made clear why the 25th of December is associated with our Lord, and was set apart by the Apostolic Church to commemorate the stupendous event of the “Word becoming flesh”—and not, as we have for so long been led to suppose, the commemoration of a pagan festival.
No doubt 12/25 was not the date of birth.
So your "goodyness of Gad" webite, sontagged, has got this one glaring error. Let's dissasemble the rest of the argument
As shown above - Saturnalia got over BEFORE December 25th
And, in addition it was celebrated into the Christian era and before Christmas day, so no way was Christmas day a "replacement"
That was after the visit of the wise men (well after Jesus was born) when Harod learned about the birth of the prophesized King.
It contains imagery right from 1:4 "the seven spirits who are before his throne" -- seven is the number of completeness, this is the symbol for the Holy Spirit - as the grace comes from the Father, from the seven spirits and from Jesus Christ
Through to a double-edged sword coming out of a man's mouth.
apocalyptic literature uses dramatic imagery of cataclysmis distruptions to describe changes within the human political sphere - as we see of Isaiah 13:9-13 "for the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its ring, and the moon will not shed its light... the earth will be shaken out of its place
The depiction in Apocalypse of the Devil dragging out one third of the sky is what happens in the spiritual world
Then, next you make it september 11 - as per the Gregorian calendar.
Yet the Gregorian calendar reforms happened only in 1582 under Pope Gregory XIII
Prior to that was the Julian calendar.
So what calendar is the article referring to?
I like Augustus' description of Herod “It's better to be Herod's pig than his son” (dicta 56 Malc.).
Bumped
I listen to Dr. Michael Heiser (author of Unseen Realm). He also says that Jesus was born on September 11th. He doesn’t make a big deal about it, but just throws down the bible and historical data for it.
I know, I thought of that recently. But I think the power this day has had over the enemies of Christ and the freedom that Judeo Christianity warrants, tells the truth of it as well.
For later.
I recall reading how all of the feasts have Jesus doing something and it is noted in the Bible. EXCEPT for the Feast of Trumpets.
That has given rise to the idea that THAT feast is reserved for when He comes back.
Although that would tie in with His birth as well. So He DID do something for all of the feasts. And it would be poetic that He would come again on the same day that He did when He first arrived!
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