“[Christmas Day] was the old pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god and celebrated when the days began to get longer.”
Modern scholarship has debunked that. Christians, rightly or wrongly as far as the day, were celebrating December 25 before the Romans used the day to celebrate their paganism.
First time I heard that speculation. I understand that for historians and religious scholars, a literal date is of great importance, but it matters not to me.
Whenever it happened, the physical world has been a better place ever since.
Most likely, the exact date will always be a matter of dispute, since Mary and Joseph were trying to keep a low profile anyway.
Wasn’t there a King nearby looking for all male newborns so that his soldiers could kill them?
Put a yule log on the fire means what?
E W Bullinger has a very extensive explanation in the appendix of his Companion Bible. His dates are as follows. See the tables and details at link.
A.M. = Anno Mundi; i. e. in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; i. e. in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.D. = Anno Domini; i. e. in the year of the Lord.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditœ; i. e. the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.
A.M. — B.C.-A.D. — A.C. — A.U.C.
4000 THE NATIVITY 4 | 0 | 749 Herod d.c. end 28 Our Lord b. 15th Tisri=29th Sept. 4 B.C.
1. It thus appears without the shadow of a doubt that the day assigned to the Birth of the Lord, namely, December 25, was the day on which He was “begotten of the Holy Ghost”, that is to say, by pneuma hagion = divine power (Matthew 1:18, 20 marg.), and His birth took place on the 15th of Ethanim, September 29, in the year following, thus making beautifully clear the meaning of John 1:14, “The Word became flesh” (Matthew 1:18, 20) on 1st Tebeth or December 25 (5 B.C.), “and tabernacled (Greek eskenosen) with us”, on 15th of Ethanim or September 29 (4 B.C.).
The 15th of Ethanim (or Tisri) was the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Circumcision therefore took place on the eighth day of the Feast = 22nd Ethanim = October 6-7 (Leviticus 23:33-43). So that these two momentous events fall into their proper place and order, and the real reason is made clear why the 25th of December is associated with our Lord, and was set apart by the Apostolic Church to commemorate the stupendous event of the “Word becoming flesh”—and not, as we have for so long been led to suppose, the commemoration of a pagan festival.
No doubt 12/25 was not the date of birth.
So your "goodyness of Gad" webite, sontagged, has got this one glaring error. Let's dissasemble the rest of the argument
As shown above - Saturnalia got over BEFORE December 25th
And, in addition it was celebrated into the Christian era and before Christmas day, so no way was Christmas day a "replacement"
It contains imagery right from 1:4 "the seven spirits who are before his throne" -- seven is the number of completeness, this is the symbol for the Holy Spirit - as the grace comes from the Father, from the seven spirits and from Jesus Christ
Through to a double-edged sword coming out of a man's mouth.
apocalyptic literature uses dramatic imagery of cataclysmis distruptions to describe changes within the human political sphere - as we see of Isaiah 13:9-13 "for the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its ring, and the moon will not shed its light... the earth will be shaken out of its place
The depiction in Apocalypse of the Devil dragging out one third of the sky is what happens in the spiritual world
Then, next you make it september 11 - as per the Gregorian calendar.
Yet the Gregorian calendar reforms happened only in 1582 under Pope Gregory XIII
Prior to that was the Julian calendar.
So what calendar is the article referring to?
Bumped
I listen to Dr. Michael Heiser (author of Unseen Realm). He also says that Jesus was born on September 11th. He doesn’t make a big deal about it, but just throws down the bible and historical data for it.
For later.
I recall reading how all of the feasts have Jesus doing something and it is noted in the Bible. EXCEPT for the Feast of Trumpets.
That has given rise to the idea that THAT feast is reserved for when He comes back.
Although that would tie in with His birth as well. So He DID do something for all of the feasts. And it would be poetic that He would come again on the same day that He did when He first arrived!
Tradition is never an accurate measurement for truth.
When Jesus was born is not a proper question.
Who is Jesus? is a proper question.
I believe he was also Baptized on the day - on his 30th birthday. This would make his ministry exactly 3 1/2 year long - exactly as foretold in Daniel. The destruction of Israel also lasted 3 1/2 years, which fulfills the balance of Daniels last week of the age.
OMG!
WHO CARES!
What is important is THAT He was born, not when.
How could the exact date even be known? Is there a time stamped video?
Here is the answer, a long time ago.
2020 years ago.
One thing that is missing in the discussion.
September 11 isn’t in the fall.
It is in the summer.
That sign of the woman and the sun and moon occur today in the early Fall.
But thanks to science, we can know that all those dots appear to have movement compared to us.
So what occurs in early Fall nowadays, occured in late summer a few thousand years ago.
So Babylonian Sept 11 may be the ‘date’, but the day is always the same:
A New Moon Day.
The first day of the month.
And since ‘sept 11’ is summer,then Trumpets isn’t accurate.
The last summer month would be accurate.
And that is actually confirmed in the New Testament scriptures.
There is 1 day when people fasted and prayed night and day (Like Anna ).
That day is called Yom Kippur.
The 10th day of the 7th month.
Which is 40 days after the New Moon Day for the 6th, not 7th month.
The Word Became Flesh in the summer.
Late summer. On the first day of the 6th Month.
A day called the New Moon Day.
A holy day. A set apart day. A day the gate of the inner court was opened.
A feast day. A banquet day. A day markets were closed.
Once a month. Every month.
Muslims tend to mark each of those days every month. Some Jews and even some Christians.
Since a New Moon Day points to Genesis 1:1, John 1:1 and John 1:14, a believer would be blessed to understand how He tells time.
A late summer birth. On an appointment day He taught Israel.
Circumcision on the 8th day of the 6th month. The 7th Day Sabbath. On an appointment day He taught Israel.
Presented in the temple, 40 days old, on the Day of Atonement. An annual Sabbath.
On an appointment day He taught Israel.
The Word really did become Flesh.
That’s why Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits were taught to Israel too.
December 25 is not the Word Made Flesh.
But neither is good Friday a part of the Word Made Flesh..
Once a month, a commemoration of the beginning of Creation, and the birth of the Son.
And it’s mostly Muslims and Jews that mark the event.
And yet, Muslims and Jews tend to reject the Son.
Fascinating to observe.
Waiting for the day December 25 fades away and Truth prevails.
But along with December 25, Good Friday and Easter would also have to fade away and be replaced with Truth.
And even Muslims and Jews wouldn’t want that.
The Bible says... the Book of Revelation says...
Then follows all the scholarly theory-proof as if it were the same thing. Other experts use the same blueprint of “discernment”, yet come up with different conclusions, but individually this stuff can look convincing.
Same ol’ same ol’ ... people either get confused and think the Bible is too hard to bother with, or they begin to argue over the theories, which means the actual fruit becomes evident for all to see.
Meanwhile off of the religious plantations some merchants who just want to provide good products or services come up with clever advertising promotions such as “Christmas in July”. All in good clean fun — nobody working themselves up over proof texts.
It’s like that.
3 BC?
He’s a premiee?!!!
It doesn't matter WHEN we celebrate Christ's birth as much as that we just celebrate it. I know some get bent out of shape for pagan Christmas trees, but keeping Christ in Christmas is a most excellent evangelistic opportunity. Even if it is on Dec 25th.