Posted on 12/28/2013 7:17:56 PM PST by Phinneous
How can this thing be divine?!?
The Pentateuch, if divine, is full of mistakes from the very first word (we're talking Hebrew here...the basis of the Greek/Latin/English translations everyone in the world uses.) How could that be?
Example: In the beginning G-d created, in the Hebrew version, is actually literally "In the beginning OF... G-d created" There are thousands of examples of the Pentateuch making no sense in its grammar or syntax. So how do we know how to interpret it even on a literal level?
Well... behold, the Oral Torah...
The link is to an hour-long class (in English y'all) on the rational proofs of an Oral Torah (the Mishnah) given to Moses concurrently with the Pentateuch. Rabbi Kelemen is a great speaker so pastors, etc will have loads of sermon material from this...
Hello! Yup, walk home with chatty 4-year old: 6:15
Havdallah: 6:20
1st to bed: 6:30
2nd to bed: 6:45, 7:05, 7:45
3rd to bed: 8:00-9:00
9:00-10:00 burb infant sleeping on my shoulder, read drudge, FR, work emails, and other essentials until now while cholent reheats on the stove...
The defense rests.
Yes, Shakespeare used early modern English.
Chaucer used Middle English.
Old English is different from both: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/oldenglish.htm
You have my sympathies...
Is it possible this was changed after the influx and overall acceptance of Political Correctness ? Every Gender , Religion , Creed and Race is effected either Inversely or Adversely by PC !
Agree to disagree? We believe that the world was instructed by G-d on how to live and how to make it into a G-dly dwelling-place. 613 commandments for Jews and 7 for non-Jews. You believe something different.
You see dietary law to differentiate from pagans only. We don’t refute that, in fact our scholars have codified that...and there is a deeper level still.
Imagine if G-d spoke to you, HiTech RedNeck, and said, HTRN, please dig a hole for me, then fill it in. Would you balk at the instruction of fulfill His will? Jews know what G-d told us to do. We follow everything (optimally) with joy and love. Imagine to be commanded by the King of Kings! If your experience with Jews and your study of them doesn’t reflect that, I don’t think it can be changed—nor need it be.
Well, we kind of think we have the original. No PC in “though shall not lie with a man....” right? A&E has emailed the L-rd though...cut off His reality series.
Interesting post—but there is an alternative to mistakes—you use the word ambiguities as well. One of my old instructors was fond of the phrase “deliberate Hebrew ambiguities” which wasn’t bad. The point (or rather, the lack of pointing) being that multiple meanings can indeed be intended.
(I offer the above primarily as an alternative to making the contribution of “self-ping”—I hope to listen to it later).
> Example: In the beginning G-d created, in the Hebrew version, is actually literally “In the beginning OF... G-d created”...
Actually, I’ve heard tell that the definite article is also missing, making it “In A Beginning...”. Thanks Phinneous.
You are right. The original languages offer many words and phrases that are difficult to translate into English. Translators have done a commendable job, but the original reads “deeper”. All of my studying is done from the original languages.
Thanks. Of course I wanted the title to be edgy... :)
“In the beginning”
Make perfect sense to me.
There has only been one “Beginning” so it is not a matter “of”.
The point is that there is a proper way to say it in Hebrew and it is common and known. The way G-d writes it in the Torah BEGS for explanation. Ergo....the Oral Law. Listen to the class...give it a try.
Bookmarked
You have me curious now.
Thanks.
I recommend studying this amazing meeting of the early fathers of Christianity, hosted by Emperor Constantine. Even Nikolaos of Myra attended. We know him as Santa Claus.
Nicaea didn’t definitively settle the Biblical Canon, or even take any steps in that direction. The fringes of the canon continued to be discussed with some intensity through the early fifth century, and only Trent definitively settles the issue. A number of late 4th and early 5th century local gatherings made practical local decisions on what would be used liturgically, which did point the way to the ultimate solution, but it was over a millennium in being ratified. (Last month I was reading John Damascene, writing in the 8th century, who excluded but quoted the deutero canon but included Clement).
> Interesting post.
You think that's interesting, you should hear what they say about philatelists. (nudge nudge, wink wink)
Sadly, starting with St. Jerome, Western Christianity has looked largely to the Hebrew texts for biblical translations. The Greek text is actually much more reliable. Jerome presumed the Greek text was a poor translation of the Hebrew text; in fact the Septuagint is based on a different Hebrew text than the one used by post-Temple Jews.
Read my previous comments: you may want to read the Old Testament from the Greek text of the ancient Christians, rather than the Hebrew text of the non-Christians.
Many languages omit both definite and indefinite articles.
BTW, I do not see “in the beginning of” in the words “Bereshith bara”. Can anyone clarify?
Non-Christians? Well, that now goes to the original Apostles, who knew the Masoretic Text. Paul the Apostle, a Pharisee, was especially reliant on the Masoretic Text.
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