The Bible is Wrong!!! (Grammatically)

SimpleToRemember.com Judaism Online ^ | Circa 2011 | Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen

[Phinneous]

How can this thing be divine?!?

The Pentateuch, if divine, is full of mistakes from the very first word (we're talking Hebrew here...the basis of the Greek/Latin/English translations everyone in the world uses.) How could that be?

Example: In the beginning G-d created, in the Hebrew version, is actually literally "In the beginning OF... G-d created" There are thousands of examples of the Pentateuch making no sense in its grammar or syntax. So how do we know how to interpret it even on a literal level?

Well... behold, the Oral Torah...

The link is to an hour-long class (in English y'all) on the rational proofs of an Oral Torah (the Mishnah) given to Moses concurrently with the Pentateuch. Rabbi Kelemen is a great speaker so pastors, etc will have loads of sermon material from this...

[Phinneous]

I am posting this while eating re-heated cholent (a hot stew eaten on the Sabbath day.) Maybe this is how Karaites ate their cholent after sitting in the dark without fire on their "Sabbath." (I kid.... those who know will know)

[lee martell]

We’re talking about syntax that was perhaps used at that time (of inscription) for subject of great import. Many languages have various dialects for specific purposes. I believe the Japanese language has a dialect for business use, one for home use, maybe more than that. Olde English is found in many historic documents from England and America, when it was still new to most of the earth.

[smokingfrog]

https://archive.org/stream/treatiseonuseof00driv#page/n7/mode/2up

[Tupelo]

Gotta disagree. I think the Bible is just fine but;
The older I get the more I am thinking the translations are in many ways screwed up. I think I would be a better Christian IF I could read the Old Testament in Hebrew and the New Testament in it's original language Greek or maybe Aramaic(sp?). And maybe the books that were left out or lost.

[xjcsa]

And maybe the books that were left out or lost.

The books that were left out were left out for good reasons. Not sure about any "lost" books.

[vladimir998]

“Olde English”

Never existed. Maybe you mean Old English (sometimes called Anglo-Saxon)? If you mean older English forms - when people used ye, thou, thine, and the like - that was simply early modern English not “Olde English”.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Like Chinese, there is a lot of implication in Hebrew. B’reishit means at (or in) the head of [something implied]. You have to follow the story to get the sense of what this was at the head of (in this case, the creation order). If you try to turn it into mathematical equations you will fail.

The need to follow the story doesn’t mean that what non-Christian Jews today call the Oral Torah is what they crack it up to be! There is a spiritual sense however, and it’s carried by the Holy Spirit. And it’s ultimately a redemption story with a happy ending, except for those who dig in and refuse it.

[Phinneous]

Dude, I scanned 33 (Larry Bird!) pages...you know what they say about philologists, right? (I don’t...tell me if you do)

Can you summarize?

[Tupelo]

"were left out for good reasons" Now, For God's sake How would you KNOW that? Any more than I can know that they were not thrown out for some good reason. WE do not. THAT is why I would love to read them. I think I would prefer to make my own decision rather than some "Church Father" that may or may not have had salvation as his main objective.

[Olog-hai]

Shakespeare’s English was Early Modern English, AFAICR. Chaucer’s language was apparently a London dialect of Middle English.

[ealgeone]

If you’re serious about the Hebrew or Greek check out teknia.com.

Lots of good stuff on both languages.

I’m currently studying the Greek. It gives you an even firmer foundation of the Word.

[Olog-hai]

Well, as far as the Masoretic texts go (which omit all the Apocrypha and or “Deuterocanon”), I’ll trust the apostle Paul when he says that the Jews were entrusted with the “oracles of God” (Rom. 3:2).

[HiTech RedNeck]

Nobody’s stopping you; they can be seen online.

It makes sense to respect existing worship communities, however. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The proof of understanding God’s story is in the worship. Accounts that direct too much ultimate attention to man’s affairs and don’t pass the glory back to God are suspect. IMHO.

[SubMareener]

Here is some recent research into how the Hebrew letters in the Bible describe the world. The Meru Project is based on 30 years of research by Stan Tenen into the origin and nature of the Hebrew alphabet, and the mathematical structure underlying the sequence of letters of the Hebrew text of Genesis.

Here is another book that explains Coincidences in the Bible and in Biblical Hebrew. BTW, Hiam Shore makes a strong case that these are not coincidences, but evidence of God's plan.

Unexplainable coincidences abound in the Bible and in biblical Hebrew. For example, the Hebrew words for “ear” and “balance” are derived from the same philological root. But it was only toward the end of the nineteenth century that scientists discovered that the human body’s balancing mechanism resides in the ear. Coincidences in the Bible and in biblical Hebrew details scores of such incidents, including:

• Words in Hebrew that show intent to convey a message
• Coincidences in the Hebrew language that show intent to convey hidden information, and occasionally information that could not be expected to be known in biblical times
• Passages in the Bible that convey or assume information or knowledge unlikely to have been known in biblical times
• Other coincidences from Jewish tradition or Jewish history

Author Haim Shore discusses two types of coincidences—those that can be considered just that, and others that are subject to rigorous statistical analysis. Altogether, nineteen analyses have been conducted with highly significant results. Simple plots that accompany the analyses clarify their meanings and implications so that no prior statistical know-how is required.

[Olog-hai]

You ever look at Strong’s Dictionary?

There is also the JPS translation (OT only).

[Phinneous]

But it’s not math...it’s a language that has its own rules too. The rules are frequently broken by G-d. Does He get a mulligan or is there a deeper meaning. It’s critical, actually, for understanding and makes no sense whatsoever as a guide to life without the key to “unlocking” the “mistakes” or ambiguities.

I doubt you’ll listen to the class, which is fine...but for example, the root word for milk and fat [a type of fat from the sacrifices which is prohibited for consumption] is the same, a Ch, an L, and a V sound. Depending on how they’re vowelized (the vowels appear under the word in Hebrew and are often left out, relying on context and tradition) the Jews could be prohibited from mixing meat and milk (no cheeseburgers) or meat and...fat. I will be pissed if we got it wrong...

That’s a “cute” example but the point is to prove the Oral Law, for Jews. Christians may and do feel free to negate it all, not being bound by it at all save for the seven Noahide laws from Genesis (http://www.noahide.org/?p=669) BUT realize that insofar as you “believe” in the “OT,” you are believing in something that cannot be understood as G-d instructing Man how to live without any further explanation.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I wouldn’t be surprised. Language is more spiritually electric than we think (for lack of a better word) and the biblical languages especially. Though this property does carry somewhat even into English. The chief danger here would be in bogging yourself down in the details and forgetting the One to Whom this is all put there to be a witness!

[Phinneous]

You know what they say about philologists, right? (I don’t, please tell me!)

Interesting post.

[Iscool]

I hate to tell you this but your Sabbath was over at 6 PM...

[HiTech RedNeck]

Typically the commandments make sense on more than one level. Dietary rules prohibited things that were common pagan sacrifices. Since all eating is a sacrifice offering to God, it was considered a safeguard against confusion with pagan practices. Its relative importance can be seen by the prescribed penalty for transgressing (to be put outside the camp and be ritually unclean until evening).

You’re treating God like Someone who is throwing dice in a corner then daring you to match what He just threw. Rather than Someone who is offering to save your souls in love. You’ve created a need which isn’t even there except in your desire to be dignified.