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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Creation is about Gods glory not mans .
Duh.
Man sins because he is a sinner , carrying on the fine tradition of their father Adam.
So it's Adam's fault? So did the Sovereign God make Adam that way and plan his fall or did Adam have sovereignity over God? Did Adam have a true free will? Or was he just doing what God planned at creation?
God is and will be glorified in the Judgment of man and the vindication of His Holiness...to salvation or destruction
Fine and dandy. But it might help if you tried to answer my questions. Did the Sovereign God make it this way or did someone else decide? Did the sinner decide to be a sinner or did God make the world so that he would sin? And if God did not, but left it up to the man to sin or not, doesn't that mean that man is sovereign over God?
SD
SD
With God Know is the same thing as ordained as He knows because it is a part of His plan .
You believe men can earn grace. Protestants believe that grace is GODS UNMERITED FAVOR . As such He can freely shower it on who He will when He will.
But you guys don't accept free will. You make God's will everything. Which means God is responsible for the damnation of those. No matter how much you protest. Making God's will the highest thing leads you to this.
Wow that is just awful isn't it? Who does He think he is anyway God or something ?
No man will be in hell that does not deserve to be there. God does not need to apologize for His Justice or His Mercy
Time for a break, getting sluggish. The ADON out and it's just me and my radio. All nice and quiet, the way I like it. Got my diet coke(negates the calories :') and some chocolates.
And therein lies the difference.
I do not equate Omniscience with Determinism (or "Foreknowledge" with "Predestination", if you prefer those terms).
Cindy why are the saved called the elect in the bible if in fact they elect themselves ? They elect God and God gets no vote?
Maybe the Holy Spirit should have used the word voters instead of elect :>)
You, don't say.
Because its fun for them to play mini-God and decide for Him who He saves or does not.
Agreed. The tautology (A=A) is the fundamental statement of logic. In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
...as dictionary.com puts it:...
I don't think God here is either needlessly repetitious or is He making a vacuous statement.
Take it up with dictionary.com, if that is an accurate and complete quote of their definition of tautology. God's revealed name, I AM THAT I AM, is a tautology.
See this is the problem with me. I like to stay in the book. I don't even like it when my preacher says that "so in so" said or wrote.....I'm always asking him where in the bible he gets stuff.
No, I don't.
But you guys don't accept free will. You make God's will everything. Which means God is responsible for the damnation of those. No matter how much you protest. Making God's will the highest thing leads you to this.
Wow that is just awful isn't it? Who does He think he is anyway God or something ?
No man will be in hell that does not deserve to be there. God does not need to apologize for His Justice or His Mercy
This will be the 4th time asking. If the men in hell deserve to be there cause they could never choose the good, who made them that way? Are they more sovereign than God, able to create their own motives and actions? Or are they just doing what is in God's plan?
SD
I don't want to quibble anymore about this. I defined what I am using as the definition of the word "tautology." I have no need to take it up with anyone else.
SD
If you happen by many Sunday School classes or seeker friendly church sermons you will hear that God created man because He loves him. . It comes out something like God made man because he was bored or lonely . Creation revolves around the creature and the importance of the creature to God.
This places man in the center of creation not God.
I will" recite" my 2nd grade Baltimore Catechism regarding creation
Why did God make you?
Answer
"God made me to know love and serve Him in this world and the next."
My Wesminster Confession says it this way
What is the chief end of man? A. Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.
I love the confession, it is so God centered.
. 12. What is the third truth inferred hence? A. That it is the duty and wisdom of every Christian to renounce, deny, and forsake all inferior Interests and Enjoyments, when they come in competition with the glory of God, and our enjoyment of him, Luke 14:33: So likewise whosoever he be of you, that forsaketh not all he hath, cannot be my Disciple.
Q. 13. What is the fourth Inference hence? A. That we are to abhor and renounce all those Doctrines and Practices that debase the glory of God, and exalt and magnify the Creature.
AMEN
sunk in recently yes. :-)
OK, I thought you were onto something different. I can't argue with that. LOL
You could explain how that is relevant to what you said to bass.
For that matter, how can you say a man's chief end is to gloriofy God and enjoy him forever when God made some men specifically not to enjoy Him forever?
SD
That's cuz you're scared I might have a better one. :-)
Indeed you can , and should as He is a loving and Merciful Father to His children.
But to the reprobate presenting him as the good humor man will get more of a response (at least they will run to the window to look.)
Dave, God is the totality of His attributes. He is not one thing at the exclusion of the others . To remove or deny any of His attributes makes him not God.
God is love, He is mercy , He is good, He is Holy and He is Just .
His justice demands that men be condemned for their rebellion and sin. He is Holy and they can not stand in His presence, they are an abomination to Him.
Because He is long suffering He has extended mercy to some . He is glorified in both His Just condemnation and in His Mercy .
God is not the "author' of sin, He does not need to be, man will willingly make that choice on a daily basis .
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