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A Ring of Truth(ers) - Truthers vs. birthers.
National Review Online ^ | September 11, 2009 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 09/11/2009 10:09:02 AM PDT by neverdem








A Ring of Truth(ers)
Truthers vs. birthers.

By Jonah Goldberg

Herewith, two scenarios.

Scenario A: The supposedly inept president of the United States carefully planned and orchestrated the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history. Though “only” 3,000 people died, the plan was to kill many more by simultaneously attacking the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and either the U.S. Capitol or the White House itself on Sept. 11, 2001.

Hundreds of people, including personnel from myriad agencies, participated. According to some versions of Scenario A, explosives were placed at the World Trade Center to ensure success. In other versions, all of “the Jews” working there were tipped off by some phone bank run by the Mossad. In every version, however, the U.S. government was in on it, and everyone involved kept the biggest secret in American history.

Then there’s Scenario B: An ambitious and extremely clever politician, who has at best been selectively forthcoming about large chunks of his youth, lied about his place of birth so he could be eligible for the presidency.

To further this scheme, he has arranged for the full and/or original version of his birth certificate to remain under lock and key. At most, a handful of supporters and lawyers are in on the whole thing.

Now, which one is more believable? For the record, I don’t believe either. But it seems to me the “birther” hypothesis is vastly more plausible than the “truther” hypothesis. Politicians lie to advance their careers. You can look it up. Whole governments rarely orchestrate incredibly complex acts of physics, logistics, and mass murder all the while pinning guilt on others (who boast that they acted alone).

Just for clarification: “Truthers” believe Scenario A. “Birthers” believe Scenario B.

The question of which scenario is more plausible is neither academic nor trivial. This summer, a host of columnists, commentators, and activists, seemingly taking their cues from a White House and DNC public-relations offensive, declared that the rise of the “birthers” was a fatal indictment of modern conservatism and the Republican party. The refusal of the birthers to give up their cockamamie theory was proof that the GOP had succumbed to the “paranoid style.” Indeed, according to some liberal commentators, the birthers were the potential wellspring for a nascent Nazi movement in America. Never mind that the vast majority of leading Republicans and conservatives — from Newt Gingrich to Ann Coulter — rejected the birthers categorically.

Fast-forward to the last week or so. Van Jones, an avowed “Communist” and passionate supporter of convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, was a truther par excellence. Contrary to many reports, he didn’t merely sign 911truth.org’s petition in 2004, he helped organize one of the first truther groups as early as 2002.

When these and other revelations came to light, Jones resigned his post as White House “green jobs czar.”

The reaction from much of the liberal establishment has been fascinating, hypocritical, and deeply creepy. For starters, the same White House that fueled the anti-birther boom has refused to offer a single critical word about Jones’s past positions (some of which he recanted as his job security grew more threatened; we’ll see how long that lasts).

In July, the popular left-wing website FiredogLake couldn’t let go of the birther bit. One post — titled “The Republican Party is the Birther Party, and it’s dragging them down” — made much of the fact that 28 percent of Republicans, according to one poll, do not believe that Obama is a natural-born citizen. This week, the site’s founder, Jane Hamsher, was disgusted that Jones was “thrown under the bus,” even though he subscribed to trutherism, a view that “35 (percent) of Democrats believed as of 2007.”

Got that? Belief in an implausible conspiracy is a cancer on the GOP. Even greater belief in an even more implausible conspiracy is proof that it’s mainstream.

Apologies for Jones and trutherism appeared instantly on the sites of the left-wing flagship magazines The Nation, The New Republic, and elsewhere. The New York Times and Newsweek deliberately distorted what the truthers believe in order to make Jones look more reasonable and his critics more unreasonable. The Financial Times actually reported that Jones resigned for criticizing how the GOP majority had run Congress.

But mostly, the mainstream press changed the subject to how the Right is paranoid and vaguely unpatriotic for opposing Obama’s speech to schools Tuesday, despite the fact that most conservatives and Republicans didn’t protest the speech once the Department of Education’s controversially politicized lesson plans were withdrawn.

One last question is worth asking. Forget which is more plausible. Which scenario is more unpatriotic, more malicious, more corrosive to civic life? In short: Which is more evil? Again, I think the answer is obvious. Alas, it seems I’m in a minority.

— Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of
National Review Online and the author of Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning. © 2009 Tribune Media Services, Inc.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthers; certifigate; terrorism; truthers
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"A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand"

IMHO, the same party still stands for slavery and the French Revolution against American Exceptionalism and the American Revolution.

1 posted on 09/11/2009 10:09:02 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
Scenario B: Obama catches his ride to Hawaii to plant the phony newspaper birth announcements:


2 posted on 09/11/2009 10:12:48 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: neverdem

Why this moron and so many others simply refuse to believe that it is even possible that there could ever be a “conspiracy” of any kind is beyond me. They seem to actually think that mankind is simply not capable of it. It stares them in the face...sometimes the conspirators even admit it! And yet they still poo-poo anyone who points these things out.

And no, I’m not a “truther” in the usual sense....but I’m definitely a “birther”!!!


3 posted on 09/11/2009 10:13:17 AM PDT by SandWMan (NO MORE NEOCONS!!!)
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To: neverdem
I think it was Van Jones denying his own signiture on a liberal/progressive cause that got him canned. If it was just that he was a "Truther" he would still be in the administration even now.
4 posted on 09/11/2009 10:15:47 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: neverdem

When afraid, call the people paranoid.


5 posted on 09/11/2009 10:16:48 AM PDT by pray4liberty (I'm going to make me a T shirt that says "You Lie.")
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To: neverdem
The Financial Times actually reported that Jones resigned for criticizing how the GOP majority had run Congress.

Listening to the MSM one might be forgiven for thinking that Jones lost his job for once calling Republicans "arseholes" - while incendiary, not even on the same scale as his other misdeeds.

6 posted on 09/11/2009 10:19:05 AM PDT by eclecticEel (The Most High rules in the kingdom of men ... and sets over it the basest of men.)
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To: sr4402

Yeah the truther thing doesn’t bother me nearly as much as some of his other comments and actions. This is a man who wants to let prison inmates loose to work in the green industry. (does the green industry need enforcers)?


7 posted on 09/11/2009 10:19:08 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: pray4liberty

It’s just like Ann Coulter says: If you want to know what the liberals are really up to, just look at what they’re accusing us of doing.


8 posted on 09/11/2009 10:23:48 AM PDT by wolfpat (Moderate=Clueless)
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To: neverdem

I’m sorry, but the anti-birthers are almost as nutty as the truthers.

Ask them: “Why shouldn’t Obama make his vault birth certificate public?”

After going through the exercise of explaining that the one that was displayed on the web has as much validity as a carnival novelty item (Sun Yat-Sen, the father of modern China has one, as does Obama’s Indonesan born sister) and that newspaper notices can be placed by grandparents, you end up with a lot of dumb looks.

And I prefer the term “disclosurist” rather than “birther”. My mystery can be solved by a single piece of paper, which DOES exist, and is sitting under lock and key in a known Hawaiian location.


9 posted on 09/11/2009 10:36:48 AM PDT by kidd (Obama: The triumph of hope over evidence)
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To: cripplecreek

The Enforcers come from the SIEU etc.


10 posted on 09/11/2009 10:45:05 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: neverdem
call me nuts. I don't care. Let's see the paper work barry. You're a liar and a fraud
11 posted on 09/11/2009 11:05:20 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: kidd
“Why shouldn’t Obama make his vault birth certificate public?”

Because the Certification of Live Birth that he posted suffices to prove his birth in Hawaii, and there is absolutely no reason to believe he was born anywhere else. Also, you have to be a loon to think it plausible that a woman 8 months pregnant, in 1961, would travel half way around the world to Kenya, just to give birth in third world conditions, at a time when the journey would likely take several days and multiple modes of highly primitive transportation.

And no, it is not true that any of his relatives in Kenya claim to have whitnessed his birth there.

I suppose, if Bambi really wanted to, he could release his vault copy. But why should he, if keeping it hidden gets his opposition distracted with this birther nonsense?

After going through the exercise of explaining that the one that was displayed on the web has as much validity as a carnival novelty item

That's why, I suppose, the State Department accepts it as proof of US birth in passport applications. LOL. You birthers are funny.

Everything else you say in your post is simply, and categorically false.

(Sun Yat-Sen, the father of modern China has one,

Not true. Sun Yat-Sen fruadulantly obtained a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth from the TERRITORY of Hawaii, 50 years before Obama was born and 48 years before Hawaii became a state.

That's not the same thing as the STATE-issued Certification of Live Birth that Obama posted.

as does Obama’s Indonesan born sister)

Not true.

and that newspaper notices can be placed by grandparents,

Not true. The newspaper announcements were based on data received directly from the Hawaii Department of Health. It says so right at the top of the newspaper page where they are printed, scanned copies of which are available all over the web. Did you even bother to look at them?

You really ought to try to verify things you read on the internet before accepting them wholesale.

12 posted on 09/11/2009 11:23:35 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: paul51

I agree and I don’t care WHO thinks those of us who want this fraud to prove that he is qualified to dismantle America is nutty. Requiring this valid information which all preceding presidents seem to provide with no dilemma or ferocious fight, does make sense. What gives this creep the “right” to be a blank slate and yet occupy the office of the Presidency of the United States on his “word” alone. The arrogance is astounding!! CO


13 posted on 09/11/2009 11:55:07 AM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: curiosity

From the LIBERAL State of Washington? I can likely guarantee that you are an Obama supporter and voted for this man. Those who have been deceived choose to remain that way unfortunately. I hope you are enjoying what this bum is doing to your country. My American cousins, one from the State of Washington, are not!! CO


14 posted on 09/11/2009 11:58:57 AM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: curiosity

Oh goody. I found an anti-birther to play with.

The COLB that was posted on the web (by the leftist fightthesmears.com) was full of redacted information and does not contain the country of birth...it is a computer generated form, derived from a database.

This article notes that there were 4 ways to get a Hawaiian certificate of birth in 1961, some not requiring documentation: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2304157/posts

I made no claims about a Kenyan birth. You assumed it though. Understandable. To be an anti-birther you MUST make assumptions.

However, along your lines of thought, it is implausible that Mrs. Obama gave birth in Hawaii and less than two weeks later was taking classes in Washington state.

Certain offices of the state of Hawaii do not accept the COLB that was posted on the web and require the vault form: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100451

Also, Obama’s sister: http://www.examiner.com/x-14143-Orange-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m7d27-Did-you-know-Obamas-half-sister-born-in-Indonesia-has-a-Hawaiian-Certification-of-Live-Birth

The relevancy of the newspaper article is related to who generated the vault copy of the birth certificate. And yes, the grandparents could have generated the vault copy, as that was permissible in 1961 Hawaii.


15 posted on 09/11/2009 12:08:27 PM PDT by kidd (Obama: The triumph of hope over evidence)
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To: neverdem

Not that this video actually deserves such a response, but is there a fact-by-fact debunking of the following video, “Zero: An Investigation of 9-11”?:

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2009/09/11/ignatius-piazza-dont-just-remember-911-uncover-it/


16 posted on 09/11/2009 12:20:10 PM PDT by E-Mat (Made in China = Arms for Tyrants)
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To: curiosity
You really ought to try to verify things you read on the internet before accepting them wholesale.

Good advice, you should take it. Your arguments are at best, diversions.

The things we don't know about this man would fill volumes.

17 posted on 09/11/2009 12:32:18 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: kidd
The COLB that was posted on the web (by the leftist fightthesmears.com) was full of redacted information

The only thing that was redacted in the original scan was the certificate number. Photos of the same document, without redaction, were later posted on factcheck's website.

and does not contain the country of birth...

It says he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. Perhaps you slept through geography class when you were in grade school, but Honolulu happens to be in the United States. Thankfully, most people are educated enough know that.

it is a computer generated form, derived from a database.

Yes, as are most birth certificates these days. What's your point? As long as it has a raised seal and registrar's signature, every Federal agency accepts it as proof of US birth.

This article notes that there were 4 ways to get a Hawaiian certificate of birth in 1961, some not requiring documentation: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2304157/posts

Yes, that's what the article claims. Unfortunately, it fails to substantiate those claims.

Certain offices of the state of Hawaii do not accept the COLB that was posted

That is not true, and again, the article you link that makes the claim fails to substantiate it.

Regarding Maya's COLB, the only evidence you have is, yet again, the unsubstantiated claim of some blogger.

The relevancy of the newspaper article is related to who generated the vault copy of the birth certificate. And yes, the grandparents could have generated the vault copy, as that was permissible in 1961 Hawaii.

So you claim. Unfortunately, yet again, you do not have a shred of evidence to back up your claim.

18 posted on 09/11/2009 12:53:16 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: neverdem; P-Marlowe

I’m still not sure what is irrational about wanting to see an original birth certificate. Seems a reasonabl request to me, and it seems to be one easily acted upon.


19 posted on 09/11/2009 12:57:15 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: neverdem
0bamas’ hidden records: Why are these off limits?

1 Certified copy of original birth certificate
2 Columbia University transcripts
3 Columbia thesis paper
4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5 Harvard University transcripts
6 Illinois State Senate records
7 Illinois State Senate schedule
8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother
10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11 Occidental College Transcripts
12 Parent’s marriage Certificate
13 Record of baptism
14 Selective Service registration records
15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16 Passport records for all passports
17 Scholarly articles
18 SAT and LSAT test scores
19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya
20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
21 Punahou grade school records
22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.

Anyone who cares about their country would be very concerned that a POTUS had hidden every scrap of information of his life that he possibly could.


20 posted on 09/11/2009 1:13:19 PM PDT by TigersEye (0bama: "I can see Mecca from the WH portico." --- Google - Cloward-Piven Strategy)
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