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Potential Origins of Europeans Found
Yahoo News ^ | November 10, 2005 | RANDOLPH E. SCHMID

Posted on 11/11/2005 1:09:32 AM PST by AlaskaErik

A study of DNA from ancient farmers in Europe shows sharp differences from that of modern Europeans — results that are likely to add fuel to the debate over European origins.

Researchers led by Wolfgang Haak of Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz, Germany, argue that their finding supports the belief that modern residents of central Europe descended from Stone Age hunter-gatherers who were present 40,000 years ago, and not the early farmers who arrived thousands of years later.

But other anthropologists questioned that conclusion, arguing that the available information isn't sufficient to support it.

Haak's team used DNA from 24 skeletons of farmers from about 7,500 years ago, collected in Germany, Austria and Hungary. Six of the skeletons — 25 percent — belonged to the "N1a" human lineage, according to genetic signatures in their mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited from the mother.

The N1a marker is extremely rare in modern Europeans, appearing in just 0.2 percent.

"This was a surprise. I expected the distribution of mitochondrial DNA in these early farmers to be more similar to the distribution we have today in Europe," co-author Joachim Burger, also from Johannes Gutenberg University, said in a statement.

"Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the contribution of early farmers could be close to zero," added co-author Peter Forster from the University of Cambridge in England.

Absence of the marker in modern people indicates they are descended from ancient hunter-gatherers rather than the later-arriving farmers, the researchers said.

But others challenged that conclusion.

"The data are new, the analysis is not compelling, and the conclusions are illogical," said anthropologist Milford H. Wolpoff of the University of Michigan.

Anthropologist Joao Zilhao of the University of Bristol, England, noted that the study didn't compare the DNA of the ancient farmers with that of the ancient hunter-gatherers, adding that there are plenty of hunter-gatherer burials in German cave sites that could have been sampled for comparison.

Without that comparison it's hard to say that the difference between modern DNA and that of the ancient farmers means current people are descended from the ancient hunter-gatherers.

"In this particular case, the reason may be because of a farmer input that was subsequently diluted, assuming that the N1a haplotype is a marker of spreading farmers, and that it was as rare in pre-Neolithic Europe as it is today," Zilhao said.

But, he added, "I see nothing in the data that would necessarily carry the exclusion of, for instance, the opposite hypothesis ... that (the N1a marker) represents the incorporation of hunter-gatherer females in the farming communities that are coming into Europe about 7,500 years ago, that incorporation being in such small numbers that, eventually, it all but disappeared."

The research was funded by the German Federal Ministry for Education and Research.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Germany; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: aegean; agriculture; aliaksu; animalhusbandry; arab; archaeology; aryan; asia; austria; blacksea; blackseaflood; catastrophism; creationism; damesrnotaggressive; danuberiver; dietandcuisine; diodorus; dna; england; europe; europeans; evolution; france; germany; godsgravesglyphs; hairy; helixmakemineadouble; hindu; history; hungary; huntergatherers; india; iran; ireland; joaozilhao; liviugiosan; milfordwolpoff; noahsflood; nutcrackerman; orehistoric; origins; petkodimitrov; prehistoric; prehistory; richardhiscott; robertballard; samothrace; uk; wolfganghaak
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To: thoughtomator

I doubt it. Although the French language initially started as an ad-hoc construction, today the French have a language purity police. New French words have to be approved, and loan words from other languages are discouraged. Personally, I don't know the details of the agency that does this nor do I know how they enforce it, but it's motivated by a 'preservation of culture' ideal. As a result, hardly anyone outside of French speaking countries is particularly motivated to learn French and it makes it extra difficult to integrate new concepts into the French mindset.

The Japanese do this too, but their language is constructed differently and clarity of expression would actually suffer if verbs and nouns from other languages were integrated ad-hoc. They use a process of segregation, where all nouns and verbs are written in Katakana (their equivalent of capital letters) and verbs are added through the suru construction (like adding -ing on words to convert them from nouns to verbs.) Therefore, the Japanese get nearly all of the flexibility without compromising clarity. This fits into the general Japanese character rather well, which is: Foreigners are really cool and warmly welcomed, as long as someday they are going back home and don't try to actually become Japanese.

French - We are the greatest, most perfect thing ever, and it shall not be soiled by outside influences.
Japanese - We don't insist on being the best, we can learn from others, but we do wish to remain distinct.
English/American/Aussie/etc. - Whatever, who cares how you spell it or pronounce it, so long as it works and you admit that Shakespeare is the greatest playright ever.

Interestingly enough, the Japanese are big Shakespeare fans. Many of Shakespeare's tragedies make the cultural transition to Japan very well.


61 posted on 11/11/2005 1:13:07 PM PST by Netheron
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To: little jeremiah
Have you read "Human Devolution" by any chance?

Are we not men? We are Devo!

Are we not men? D-E-V-O!

62 posted on 11/11/2005 1:14:43 PM PST by Netheron
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To: Jeremiah Jr; the-ironically-named-proverbs2
Where did the name Europe come from?

Nick Metcalfe, New Mills, UK

From the Phoenician word EROB, meaning where the sun set (west of Phoenicia).

Hmmm...

Compare

06153 `ereb {eh'-reb}
from 06150; TWOT - 1689a; n m

AV - even 72, evening 47, night 4, mingled 2, people 2, eventide 2,
eveningtide + 06256 2, Arabia 1, days 1, even + 0996 1,
evening + 03117 1, evening + 06256 1, eventide + 06256 1; 137

1) evening, night, sunset
1a) evening, sunset
1b) night

63 posted on 11/11/2005 1:20:59 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: wildbill

Actually, that's an Urban legend.


64 posted on 11/11/2005 1:26:26 PM PST by Netheron
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To: wildbill

Also, it's not hard to switch on Modern equipment. Most operating systems allow you to change the keybindings anyway to support different languages. Do a websearch on your favorite keyboard arrangement and I'm sure you will find a driver or hardware for it.


65 posted on 11/11/2005 1:29:10 PM PST by Netheron
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To: martin_fierro

ping


66 posted on 11/11/2005 1:44:32 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Netheron; wildbill
> An even more astounding fact is that there is a keyboard alternative to the standard Querty keyboard (circa 1870)that is easier to learn and to use. It would make nearly everyone a faster typist.

Actually, that's an Urban legend.

Indeed.

Barbara Blackburn, the World's Fastest Typist

Typing, Fastest. Mrs. Barbara Blackburn of Salem, Oregon can maintain 150 wpm for 50 min (37,500 key strokes) and attains a speed of 170 wpm using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard (DSK) system. Her top speed was recorded at 212 wpm. Source: Norris McWhirter, ed. (1985), THE GUINNESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS, 23rd US edition, New York: Sterling Publishing Co., Inc.
- Barbara Blackburn, the World's Fastest Typist
67 posted on 11/11/2005 1:45:01 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: dread78645

1) That's a fairly small speed improvement.

2) If it does work, it may only help the very fastest typists.

3) How do you know she doesn't prefer Dvorak specifically. A sample size of one is not statistically meaningful.


68 posted on 11/11/2005 2:10:11 PM PST by Netheron
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To: ApplegateRanch

"Human Devolution" is recent, a companion volume to "Forbidden Archeology - The Hidden History of the Human Race". Both fascinating, non-mainstream. Highly referenced.


69 posted on 11/11/2005 2:15:00 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: FreedomCalls
You could say the same thing about the metric system.

I don't mind the metric system when it comes to nuts and bolts, but I want to live in a house with eight foot ceilings, go out to my 24' by 26' garage, where it's 60ºF and drive away in my truck at 45 mph.

70 posted on 11/11/2005 2:57:13 PM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: hosepipe
I've always thought URPeans decended from bees and wasps.. since they have a propensity for the hive.. you know, socialism.. I was thinking ostriches myself...you know, head in the sand when there's trouble.
71 posted on 11/11/2005 2:59:50 PM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: little jeremiah
"Human Devolution" is recent, a companion volume to "Forbidden Archeology - The Hidden History of the Human Race".

Then the answer is no. Amazon, here I come!

72 posted on 11/11/2005 3:02:25 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: Pharmboy

Thanks!


73 posted on 11/11/2005 3:03:27 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: hosepipe
I've always thought URPeans decended from bees and wasps.. since they have a propensity for the hive.. you know, socialism..

I was thinking ostriches myself...you know, head in the sand when there's trouble.

Oops...didn't proof good enough!

74 posted on 11/11/2005 3:04:31 PM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: AlaskaErik
DNA shows first Europeans were hunters not farmers

The Independent (UK)
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 11 November 2005

Whisper it quietly in Brussels but Europe may not have been a continent of farmers for time immemorial after all. New DNA research suggests we are actually descended from hunter-gatherers who pre-date the arrival of agricultural techniques.

The first farmers to arrive in Europe more than 7,000 years ago appear to have left behind a legacy of agriculture but no descendants, a study of ancient DNA has found. Modern Europeans do not seem to have inherited the genes of the first farmers to arrive from the Near East, where they had invented agriculture 12,000 years ago.

A study of 24 skeletons of an early farming community in central Europe has found that their DNA does not match the DNA of modern men and women living in the same part of the world. The researchers believe the findings indicate that although the first farmers brought agriculture to Europe, they did not manage to displace the much older, resident population of hunter gatherers.

In a paper published in the journal Science, the team concludes that modern Europeans are directly descended from the first modern humans to arrive on the continent more than 40,000 years ago when they survived on hunting game and gathering berries.

"Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the [genetic] contribution of early farmers could be close to zero," said Peter Forster of the University of Cambridge, one of the authors of the study. "It's interesting that a potentially minor migration of people into central Europe had such a huge cultural impact," he added.

How the practice of farming spread across Europe and what happened to the people who were living on the continent at the time, has been a long-running debate in human prehistory.

Some experts believe that the first farmers displaced the early hunter-gatherers because the improvements in food supply that agriculture provided led to an explosion in the population.

However the latest study by a team from Britain, Germany and Estonia suggests that the first farmers did indeed pass on the culture of farming but they did not contribute significantly to the overall genetic make-up of modern Europeans. "This was a surprise. I expected the distribution of mitochondrial DNA in these early farmers to be more similar to the distribution we have today in Europe," said Joachim Burger of Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz, Germany. Mitochondrial DNA is passed on only from mothers to their children so it is possible that the latest results could still be explained by incoming farmers taking local women for their wives.

The team analysed the mitochondrial DNA of 24 skeletons belonging to a culture known as the Linearbandkeramik. They were the first farmers known to occupy central Europe, notably the area of modern-day Hungary and Slovakia, about 7,500 years ago. Within the following 500 years, agriculture had spread west to France and east to the Ukraine.

The archaeological evidence suggests that agriculture was introduced into Greece and south-east Europe from the Near East more than 8,000 years ago and then spread north and west towards the Atlantic.

One possible scenario is that small pioneer groups of farmers moved into an area occupied by hunter-gatherers who quickly changed their lifestyle once they saw the benefits of growing their own crops.

Alternatively, a different population may have replaced the early farmers but the archaeological evidence for such a mass and rapid displacement is scant.

Whisper it quietly in Brussels but Europe may not have been a continent of farmers for time immemorial after all. New DNA research suggests we are actually descended from hunter-gatherers who pre-date the arrival of agricultural techniques.

The first farmers to arrive in Europe more than 7,000 years ago appear to have left behind a legacy of agriculture but no descendants, a study of ancient DNA has found. Modern Europeans do not seem to have inherited the genes of the first farmers to arrive from the Near East, where they had invented agriculture 12,000 years ago.

A study of 24 skeletons of an early farming community in central Europe has found that their DNA does not match the DNA of modern men and women living in the same part of the world. The researchers believe the findings indicate that although the first farmers brought agriculture to Europe, they did not manage to displace the much older, resident population of hunter gatherers.

In a paper published in the journal Science, the team concludes that modern Europeans are directly descended from the first modern humans to arrive on the continent more than 40,000 years ago when they survived on hunting game and gathering berries.

"Our paper suggests that there is a good possibility that the [genetic] contribution of early farmers could be close to zero," said Peter Forster of the University of Cambridge, one of the authors of the study. "It's interesting that a potentially minor migration of people into central Europe had such a huge cultural impact," he added.

How the practice of farming spread across Europe and what happened to the people who were living on the continent at the time, has been a long-running debate in human prehistory.

Some experts believe that the first farmers displaced the early hunter-gatherers because the improvements in food supply that agriculture provided led to an explosion in the population.

75 posted on 11/11/2005 3:23:18 PM PST by blam
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To: AlaskaErik

or Vampire bats living on the blood of the masses..


76 posted on 11/11/2005 3:26:10 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: AlaskaErik
Gene Study Identifies 5 Main Human Populationa
77 posted on 11/11/2005 3:28:31 PM PST by blam
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To: AlaskaErik
Stone Age Site Found Under North Sea (8,000BC)
78 posted on 11/11/2005 3:41:15 PM PST by blam
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

To: SunkenCiv; CarrotAndStick; blam; Great Caesars Ghost; RightWhale
Black Sea deluge theory
80 posted on 11/11/2005 5:00:04 PM PST by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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