Posted on 09/08/2004 4:39:18 PM PDT by Howlin
Have at him!
PING to post #352. More to back up the "Bush signed the 180" story.
Thanks .. this story still smells
What year did Killian pass away?
They do have an agenda to be maintained.
How can they attribute something that is unsigned?
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf
Why are the two signatures different?
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf
Something smells here.
PING to link to transcript found at post #363.
I note in the second memo Killian has advised Bush of the due date for the physical and notes Bush says he'll take care of that in Alabama IF HE STAYS IN A FLIGHT STATUS.
The memo vindicates George Bush. Just the opposite of what that ass Rather said.
I checked my "receipt" a few minutes ago too, just to make sure it was from them.Whew!
To the best of our knowledge, W did not crash or bail-out of one of those planes did he?? If not he beat the odds:
259/875=30%, 70/259=27%, 70/875=8%.
Let's summarize: 30% of the planes crashed. 27% of the pilots who crashed died. 8% of the total pilots died. Those are terrible odds. Imagine if 30% of the Swift boats were destroyed and 27% of those who served on those boats died. I know its apples to oranges, but IMO (and I was there for a year on CG boats) if the boat and crew had that type of casualty rate, everyone who just survived deserved a medal. Obviously, the odds weren't that bad for our sailors or I would have crapped in my pants the first night in country (as it was, I spent the first night over the rail sick and the engineman on watch continually checked on me to make sure I didn't fall overboard in the monsoon waves!).
In my opinion, anyone who flies fast military planes and has the skills to keep it, himself and those down below safe is worthy of respect and more so in war time. So enough already of this DNC/MSM BS!.
HUH? You're not going down the kooky "they fabricated documents" line are you?
The docs are real. But they are nothing new and nothing that paints Bush in a bad light.
Much to Dan's chagrin.
Exactly my case too. With the huge baby boom population crowding into what college had room, it was a hard thing finding a college that would accept your application. Once in college, the competition for that grade to keep you in college was stiff.
Back then, you had to work very hard for those college deferments and a college degree. Also in those days, a fifty page term paper had to be turned out on a Royal Typewriter. If you made too many mistakes, you typed the page over. And, it made no difference what class it was, you had to write a term paper.
I find it hard to believe that someone initials can change so much in their handwriting within 3 months.
Excellent point, worth repeating, and easy to remember, too.
It's easier to remember it this way:
It should be noted that Kerry had four student deferments, and only enlisted in the Naval Reserve (not the Navy) when his fifth student deferment was denied.
I'd like to compare the CBS write-up of memo #2 with the actual memo. Ready? Let's go!:
CBS:
Killian called Lt. Bush "an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot" who "performed in an outstanding manner." That is part of the public record.
But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."
Lt. Bush tells his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama…. and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Lt. Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."
Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.
~snip~
Now, the actual memo:
May 19, 1972
Memo to File
Subject: Discussion with Bush; 1st Lt. Bush
1. Phone call from Bush. Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November. I told him he could do ET for three months or transfer. Says he wants to transfer to Alabama to any unit he can get in to. Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad.
2. Physical. We talked about him getting his flight physical situation fixed before his date. Says that he will do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status. He has this campaign to do and other things that will follow and may not have the time. I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment. He's been working with staff to come up with options and identified a unit that may accept him. I told him I had to have written acceptance before he would be transferred, but I think he's talking to someone upstairs.
END OF MEMO
Now, I think any fair-minded person can see the memo is not as CBS portrayed it.
Did they find them in Sandy Berger's pants?
You've just been waiting to find somewhere to post that, haven't you? :-)
I'm sorry for being so harsh in my tone before. I see CBS says they were told these memos came from Killian. I tend to believe it but WHY is CBS keeping it secret who did provide the documents to them?
(rhetorical question)
I still don't think they were forged but with the chain of custody in question it is a fair question and even CBS employed a handwriting expert.
I'm not defending or supporting or supporting anyone. Just stating the facts of the time. The draft lottery was an improvement over the previous system but that was still a factor in someones decision process. I seem to recall the highest number called was 125 but that may be high. The call level had been higher in 1970.
If we have to revert to a draft the old method has to be improved. Personally I believe the best approach would be to eliminate all deferrals for reasons not medically related. If your number comes up you go within 30 days, period. During times of a draft the only persons eligible for the Guard should be persons who have already served their commitment or were missed by the lottery in a previous year.
To be followed up, according to Hannity, with THREE appearences by Kitty Kelly on the Today Show. And Swift boat's O'Neill so far has not been interviewed on that show or ABC's GMA!! Amazing!!
(but not surprising)
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