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What’s the Point of Creeds?
CERC ^ | 1988 | Peter Kreeft

Posted on 05/01/2009 10:31:49 PM PDT by Salvation

What’s the Point of Creeds?

PETER KREEFT

I remember vividly how deeply moved I was as a young Protestant to hear how one of the Catholic martyrs died...


Peter Kreeft

I remember vividly how deeply moved I was as a young Protestant to hear how one of the Catholic martyrs died: scratching in the sand with his own blood the words of the creed, “Credo ....”( “I believe”).

My heart was moved, but my head did not yet understand. What do these Catholics see in their creeds anyway? How can a set of words be worth dying for? Why have wars been fought over a word? What's the point of creeds?

Then I read Dorothy Sayers' little masterpiece Creed or Chaos?, and I was answered.

The question can be answered by remembering another question, the one Pilate asked Christ in another life-or-death situation: “What is truth?”

And that is the point of the creeds: truth. In fact, Primal Truth, the truth about God. That is why the words of the Creed are sacred words. Just as God's material houses are sacred, so are his verbal houses. Of course God is no more confined to words, even the sacred words of creeds, than he is confined to the sacred buildings of tent or temple, church or cathedral. But both are holy, set apart, sacred. “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. “

Faith has two dimensions: the objective and the subjective. Creeds express these two dimensions: “I believe in God. “ There is an I, a believing subject, and there is God, the object of belief. There is the psychology of believing, which is something in us, and there is the theology of belief, which is the Truth believed. There is the eye, and there is the light. And woe to him who mistakes the one for the other.

When the Church formulated her creeds, humanity was more interested in the light than in the eye. God providentially arranged for the great creeds of the Church to be formulated in ages that cared passionately about objective truth. By modern standards, they ignored the subjective, psychological dimension of faith.

But we moderns fall into the opposite and far worse extreme: we are so interested in the subject that we often forget or even scorn the object. Psychology has become our new religion, as Paul Vitz and Kirk Kilpatrick have both so brilliantly shown.

Yet it's the object, not the subjective act, of faith that makes the creeds sacred. They are sacred because Truth is sacred, not because believing is sacred. Creeds do not say merely what we believe, but what is. Creeds wake us from our dreams and prejudices into objective reality. Creeds do not confine us in little cages, as the modern world thinks; creeds free us into the outdoors, into the real world where the winds of heaven whip around our heads.

What is the object, the Truth? Saint Thomas says that the primary object of faith is not words and statements but God himself. “We believe in God.” Further, as Christians we know God most fully in Christ, God incarnate, and as Catholics we know Christ through Holy Mother Church and her creeds.

When human reason raved, in the Arian heresy, that Christ could not possibly be both fully human and fully divine, Athanasius stood against the world; today we know Christ as he really is because of Athanasius and his creed.

When contemporary forms of the same heresy water down the strong meat” of Christ, the Church again braves the media, the mouth of the world, and calmly thunders the full truth about Christ. True, it is Christ rather than words that is the primary object of the Christian's faith, but what Christ? Here words are crucial.

Two extremes must be avoided: intellectualism and anti-intellectualism, worshipping the words and scorning the words. If the ancient mind tended to the former extreme, the modern mind certainly tends to the latter. Both errors are deadly.

Intellectualism misses the core of faith, both objectively and subjectively. Objectively, the core of faith is God, who is a Person, not a concept. Subjectively, the core of faith is the will, not the intellect. Though informed by the intellect, it is the will that freely chooses to believe.

Faith is not the relation between an intellect and an idea, but the relation between an I and a Thou. That is why faith makes the difference between heaven and hell. God does not send you to hell for flunking his theology exam but for willingly divorcing from him.

Anti-intellectualism also misses the core of faith, both objectively and subjectively. Objectively, because its faith has no object. It calls faith an experience (“the faith experience”) — a term never used by our Lord, Scripture, the creeds, or the popes. Modern people are constantly saying, “Have faith!” But faith in what or whom? They often mean “have faith in faith. “ But faith in faith in what?

Anti-intellectualism is a modern reaction against the modern narrowing of reason to scientific reason. When the ancients and medievals called man a “rational animal”, they did not mean a computerized camera mounted in an ape. They meant by “reason” understanding, wisdom, insight, and conscience as well as logical calculation.

Modern thinkers often forget this dimension of man and think only of reasoning (as in calculating) and feeling. And because they see that faith is not a matter of reasoning, they conclude that it must be a matter of feeling. Thus “I believe” comes to mean “I feel and creeds simply have no place. Faith becomes a “leap” in the dark instead of a leap in the light.

Many of the Church's greatest saints have been doctors of the Church, theologians, philosophers, intellectuals: Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Bonaventure. Anti-intellectuals like Tatian and Tertullian and Luther (who called reason “the devil's whore”) often die excommunicated, as heretics.

The Church — repeating what Saint Paul said in Romans 1: 19-20 — even teaches as a matter of faith that God's existence can be known by reason, independent of faith!

The Catholic ideal is the complete person, with a cool head and a warm heart, a hard head and a soft heart. The mere intellectual has a cool heart; the anti-intellectual has a hot head. The intellectual has a hard heart, the anti-intellectual has a soft head. The Church puts the severed parts in the right order because the Church has the blueprint: Christ (Eph 4:13). The Church has always had a conservative head and a liberal heart, and the world has never understood her, just as it never understood Christ.

Creeds are to the head what good works are to the heart: creeds express truth, the head's food, as good works express love, the heart's food. Both are sacred.

If there is any doubt about the need for creeds, it can be settled by fact: the fact that the Church established by Christ, the Church Christ promised to “guide into all truth”, has in fact formulated and taught creeds.

The first bishops, the apostles, formulated the Church's first, shortest, and most important creed, the Apostles' Creed. Whether the apostles literally wrote it, as tradition says, or whether it was written by their disciples to preserve the apostles' teaching, in either case it is the teaching of the apostles. When we recite this creed we speak in unison with them.

There is a strange notion abroad that creeds oppress, repress, or suppress people. That is like saying that light or food is repressive. The practical purpose of the creeds is truth, and truth is light and food for the soul.

Each of the Church's creeds was written in response to a heresy, to combat it not by force but by truth, as light combats darkness. Creeds are “truth in labeling”. Those who disbelieve in truth or scorn it, or who disbelieve in our ability to know it, see creeds as power plays.

The media's hysterical rhetoric about the pope's labeling Hans Kung's theology as non-Catholic theology is a good example of the world's utter confusion here. The media conjured up visions of the return of the Inquisition simply because the pope said, in effect, that Kung's teachings about Christ should not be confused with the Church's teachings about Christ. But this reaction should be expected if we remember the words of Christ himself (read Jn 3:17-21 prayerfully).

The most important creeds were those formulated by the Church's ecumenical (universal) councils in response to the most important heresies, the heresies about Christ; and of these the two most important were Chalcedon and Nicaea. (The Nicene Creed is the one we recite each Sunday at Mass.) The Church's most recent council, Vatican II, formulated no new creeds and no new doctrines but applied the old ones to new needs and situations.

The pope called an extraordinary synod of bishops in 1985 in part to clarify Catholic confusion concerning Vatican II. Anyone who would take the trouble to read the actual documents (which are much, much longer than creeds) would see how traditional they are. The “spirit of Vatican II” conjured by the media and some theologians is a phantom, a ghostlike half-person, with the fatal split between head and heart, creed and deed, theology and social action, love of God and love of man, eternal principles and updated applications.

But the pope is a bridge builder, a pontifex; he will patch what the world has torn. And the blueprint he will follow in doing this will be the historic, never-abandoned creeds of the Church of Christ.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Kreeft, Peter. “What's the Point of Creeds?” Chapter 17 in Fundamentals of the Faith. (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1988), 107-111.

Reprinted by permission of Ignatius Press. All rights reserved. Fundamentals of the Faith - ISBN 0-89870-202-X.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; creeds
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To: TradicalRC; kosta50
"Strange that He revealed Himself in such 'anthropomorphic' terms."

He did? I'd have thought that scripture writers, especially those of the OT, used anthropomorphic terms to describe what they couldn't understand...unless of course the Latin Church has taken to teaching, a la Mohammedanism or some variants of Protestantism, that the scriptures are quite literally the "Word of God" rather than that Ο Λογος του Θεου is Christ. Sadly, given the most recent heresy spouting from some American bishops, that wouldn't surprise me too much.

"People do end up in Hell, though."

Indeed they do, though God doesn't send them there; they send themselves. Its a shame that the various ecclesiastical terror regimes which have arisen in the West felt and, to this day among some of them, feel that making God the source of damnation on account of divine wrath is good Christian theology. Its no wonder there are so many atheists in the West.

101 posted on 05/04/2009 4:57:07 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Iscool; kosta50

***O did you make that up in your own private “ecumenical” council of the church of one.

Well that’s turning into a popular condescension...***

You mean people are starting to realize where your church is coming from?


102 posted on 05/04/2009 5:20:13 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Iscool

***The only “heretics” against the Trinity said that Jesus was a created being, or a demiurge. The Arians said this, the Muslims say this and the Mormons say this. Do you think any of those heretical groups are Christian or similar to your beliefs?
I can’t wait for iscool to respond to this one...

What??? If you knew your bibles, you’d know that I always quote from the only bible that has the correct verse in it...

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.***

With the underscore that you have created on the ‘begotten’, are you saying that you have joined the LDS in saying that God the Father procreated Jesus upon a woman?


103 posted on 05/04/2009 5:24:55 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Iscool
2Ti 1:14...1Jn 3:24...1Jn 4:13

Blah, blah, blah...the Greek word used "to indwell" means to influence; it doesn't mean there is God living in side of you. Rest assured: you have not been hijacked by the Holy Spirit.

Your religion could not exist were it not for the scriptures...

That is a pretty ignorant statement given the fact that the Church existed before the New Testament was written. Your grasp of things seems to be in reverse arrangement.

But yet the scriptures are such a mystery to you guys

The Church would say that God is a mystery that no man can grasp. It is only natural that what is revealed in scriptures is no less of a mystery if not magic.

You're quick to point out that many veses don't mean what they say but then you're completely silent on what you think they do mean...

Why should I rewrite what the Church wrote for almost the last 2,000 years and can be found in any Catholic or Orthodox catechism? Do your own homework.

But if you insist, you may ask what I personally think and I will gladly tell you what and why.

104 posted on 05/04/2009 9:51:35 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Iscool
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son...

So, you interpret "begotten" (monogenes) to mean that the Son is a creature, or as Paul would say, the "firstborn (prototokos) of every creature "(Col 1:15, KJV)?

105 posted on 05/04/2009 10:11:26 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Kolokotronis; TradicalRC
Its a shame that the various ecclesiastical terror regimes which have arisen in the West felt and, to this day among some of them, feel that making God the source of damnation on account of divine wrath is good Christian theology. Its no wonder there are so many atheists in the West.

There is definitely a tinge of masochism in it, don't you think? Wasn't it Anselm who came up with that idea?

106 posted on 05/04/2009 10:15:22 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: MarkBsnr; Iscool
Mark to Iscool: With the underscore that you have created on the ‘begotten’, are you saying that you have joined the LDS in saying that God the Father procreated Jesus upon a woman?

Mark, you noticed the same thing (see #105). I hope this is not what the mainline Protestant community believes.

107 posted on 05/04/2009 10:18:18 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Iscool; kosta50
Apparently you guys don't just condemn using the scripture 'alone'...You condemn using the scripture 'at all', unless you can squeeze something out of it that may (or may not) remotely bolster your theory on what God taught us...

We condemn individual, flawed, interpretation that misleads others. Case in point -- Arius interpreted scripture to understand that Christ was a created being, a lesser god, a demiurge. That was "sola scriptura", not, as The Apostolic Church believes, learning as a community in Christ.

And, if you read about the early heresies you would see the flaws that arise when we, normal mortals, try, as individuals, to interpret the enormity that is the Godhead.

Sola scriptura fails and that is so visible in every protestant split, sub-split and sub-sub-sub-sub-split.

We do NOT in any was condemn using "scripture" -- that is a slur against the Christian Church and you ought to take that back.

Do you have any proof to back your incorrect statement?

Finally, I asked you to differentiate between the soul and the spirit and the passage you gave likens "spirit" to the body, so your "trinity of man" falls to a duality of man.

The guy that wrote the original Catholic bible, Jerome,

you think that one man wrote the entire Bible?
108 posted on 05/05/2009 2:41:33 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Iscool; kosta50
Your religion could not exist were it not for the scriptures, just as izlam could not exist without the Koran or the Mormans without Joe Smith's book...

Our religion (called Christianity) exists because of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), we do not exist because of scripture, God-given though it may be. We are not like Muslims who slave to a book, we only serve God.

The verse says soul and spirit, but where is the third aspect of your "trinity of man"? By spirit, the author of Hebrews indicates the body.
109 posted on 05/05/2009 2:44:27 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Iscool
You haven't answered my question:

you said And I find it comical that your religion will call someone a heretic for disagreeing with their version of their guess...

To which I replied: Kolokotronis (who's orthodox) and me (catholic) in our religion (which we call Christianity) say that the Trinity is co-eternal. The only "heretics" against the Trinity said that Jesus was a created being, or a demiurge. The Arians said this, the Muslims say this and the Mormons say this. Do you think any of those heretical groups are Christian or similar to your beliefs?

We condemned as heretics the Muslims, Mormons, Arians because their sola scriptura understanding of the Trinity was not orthodox. Do you count your beliefs in the Trinity to be similar to these? Do you consider that Jesus was a created being or a demiurge?
110 posted on 05/05/2009 2:47:26 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: kosta50; TradicalRC

“Wasn’t it Anselm who came up with that idea?”

Insofar as appeasing a wrathful God by the bloody slaughter of His own Son as atonement, yup. But the idea that God is the source of damnation goes back to Blessed Augustine.


111 posted on 05/05/2009 3:39:48 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Iscool; kosta50; Cronos; MarkBsnr
"Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son...

So, you interpret "begotten" (monogenes) to mean that the Son is a creature, or as Paul would say, the "firstborn (prototokos) of every creature "(Col 1:15, KJV)?"

Fair question, I. It deserves an answer. Words and concepts do matter in theology. Misconceptions, often arising from a sola scriptura mindset, are why we have the Creed in the first place and while the words in English are loose to say the least, in Greek they are very, very precise. For example, and a propos of what you wrote, the Creed says in Greek that Christ is "homoousios" to the Father, of the same ousia (or essence though that's a bad translation). What the Arians and some others were saying was that Christ was "homoiousios", of like ousia to the Father. One letter, iota, makes all the difference, I.

112 posted on 05/05/2009 3:51:58 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Iscool

Good point K, Iscool — this is why we disapprove of sola scriptura, of attempting to understand God as just an individual, not as a Church, a community of believers. Even Church Fathers like Augustine made mistakes — we are, after all, just mortals individually, but as the community of believers stretching back to the Apostles, our success rate improves.


113 posted on 05/05/2009 6:17:20 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: Iscool
Apparently you guys don't just condemn using the scripture 'alone'...You condemn using the scripture 'at all'

I'm constantly amazed at the practice of writing "apparently" followed by an obvious falsehood. It seems some folks are seeing apparitions of falsehoods so powerfully vivid, they simply must be recounted here.

114 posted on 05/05/2009 7:04:11 AM PDT by Petronski (Learn about the 'cytokine storm.')
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To: MarkBsnr
With the underscore that you have created on the ‘begotten’, are you saying that you have joined the LDS in saying that God the Father procreated Jesus upon a woman?

Nope...I'm saying I'll bet your modern Catholic bible doesn't contain the word begotten in John 3:16...

115 posted on 05/05/2009 8:03:48 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: kosta50
So, you interpret "begotten" (monogenes) to mean that the Son is a creature, or as Paul would say, the "firstborn (prototokos) of every creature "(Col 1:15, KJV)?

Begotten meas 'born'...It's not a tough as you make it out to be...

116 posted on 05/05/2009 8:11:35 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: kosta50
Blah, blah, blah...the Greek word used "to indwell" means to influence; it doesn't mean there is God living in side of you. Rest assured: you have not been hijacked by the Holy Spirit.

All I can say is speak for yourself...And I'll take that as an admission that the Holy Spirit does NOT live within you...

You might want to switch to a more accurate Greek/English translation...The one you are using is deeply flawed...

So try out the actual verse...

2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

What does dwelleth in us mean in Greek???

Or how about this one...

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

What does abideth in us mean???

1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Hey, we even dwell in Jesus...What's that really mean??? We influence Jesus???

117 posted on 05/05/2009 8:34:36 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Cronos
We condemn individual, flawed, interpretation that misleads others. Case in point -- Arius interpreted scripture to understand that Christ was a created being, a lesser god, a demiurge. That was "sola scriptura", not, as The Apostolic Church believes, learning as a community in Christ.

No, that was not Sola Scripture...The scripture doesn't say that nor can it be interpreted to mean that...

That guy had the same problem many people do...And it's not that he didn't understand what the scriptures said, he just chose not to believe it...

We do NOT in any was condemn using "scripture" -- that is a slur against the Christian Church and you ought to take that back.

Do you have any proof to back your incorrect statement?

Sure, no problem...

Post 64 by Kosta
That's just Paul making up a new religion for the Greeks and Romans. Jesus Christ never said anything like that in the Gospels.

Oooh, the author of the Hebrews says so? Why do you believe him, and oridnary man? You don't even know who he is!

Proof enough???

Finally, I asked you to differentiate between the soul and the spirit and the passage you gave likens "spirit" to the body, so your "trinity of man" falls to a duality of man.

OK, I'll try againg...They are different because they are spelled differently...

BODY
σῶμα
sōma

Soma, the body...Flesh...

SOUL
ψυχή
psuchē

Like psyche...Intellect, mind, aura, etc...

SPIRIT
πνεῦμα
pneuma

Pneuma...Like pneumatics, air, wind...

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Perhaps the author could just as accurately have said, 'your whole spirit and spirit and body'??? Or 'your whole soul and soul and body'...

It's all in there...And it's not a matter of interpretation...It's a matter of (un)belief...

118 posted on 05/05/2009 9:09:39 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Petronski
I'm constantly amazed at the practice of writing "apparently" followed by an obvious falsehood. It seems some folks are seeing apparitions of falsehoods so powerfully vivid, they simply must be recounted here.

Thankyou for your normal contribution to an issue...

119 posted on 05/05/2009 9:13:48 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
And I'll take that as an admission that the Holy Spirit does NOT live within you...

You may imagine something "lives" inside of you, but the proof is lacking, so it all boils down to words, words and more words...and you know what they say about words

You might want to switch to a more accurate Greek/English translation...The one you are using is deeply flawed...

I don't think so. The word is used metaphorically, not literally.

What does dwelleth in us mean in Greek???

Depends in what context it is used, like everything else. Do you really think that "thank you from the bottom of my heart" means from the physical bottom of your heart? Ever heard of allegory or metaphor? perhaps you need to look them up.

1Jn 3:24...Hey, we even dwell in Jesus...What's that really mean??? We influence Jesus???

You dwell in Jesus and Jesus physically, literally dwells in you? Can you explain this? Please enlighten us as to how this works.

And, by the way, Jesus never said anything like that. It's Paul and "John" creating a new religion for the Greeks and the Romans. Find me in the Gospels where Jesus says such nonsense.

Perhaps you can also explain what Paul means in Romans 7:17 when he says "So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me." You mean to tell me, that the Holy Spirit shares the same "space" where sin abides?

And how can sin "abide" in anything? Sin is not a thing but what we do. Sin is not even a spirit. It is the consequence of our acts. Yet Paul says sin "abides" in you. You can only read this sensibly if you read it metaphorically; otherwise it's pure nonsense.

And how can you be a slave to sin if you are "hijacked" by the Holy Spirit, if you are "born again," if you "dwell" in Jesus? Get real! This is flowery language that was used to make the new religion attractive to Greeks and Romans. It "feels" good but taken literally it's gibberish.

And, when you quote dear Paul, don't forget that he said different things to different people in order to make them accept this new religion he created in order to save the Church, or maybe he didn't believe that either:

He actually believed that he [sic] saves them by pleasing all [sic] men in all [sic] things! Whatever he believed is irrelevant; it;'s what he accomplished that counts which was to save the Church from certain extinction.

120 posted on 05/05/2009 9:40:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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