What’s the Point of Creeds?

CERC ^ | 1988 | Peter Kreeft

[Salvation]

"I believe."

[Salvation]

Two extremes must be avoided: intellectualism and anti-intellectualism, worshipping the words and scorning the words. If the ancient mind tended to the former extreme, the modern mind certainly tends to the latter. Both errors are deadly.

Comments?

[Salvation]

Four Catholic Creeds

 THE FOUR CATHOLIC CREEDS

The Athanasian Creed
[QUICUNQUE VULT]

• Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic [Apostolic/Universal] Faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled, without doubt he will perish eternally.

• Now the Catholic Faith is this: We worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance.

• For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.

• Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty.

• So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.

• The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal.

• So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.

• But it is necessary to eternal salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

• He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood.

• Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the GodHead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ.

• Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.

• This is the Catholic faith, which except a man shall have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation.

 

The Apostle's Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of
Heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ,
His only Son, our Lord  Who was conceived by
the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered
under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell;  the third day He
arose again from the dead;  He ascended into
Heaven and is seated at the right hand of God
the Father Almighty, from thence He shall come
to judge the living and the dead.  I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion
of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection
of the body, and life everlasting.  Amen.

 

 

The Nicene Creed

 I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
maker of Heaven and earth and of all things
visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus
Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten
of his Father before all ages, God of God,
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not made, consubstantial with the
Father, by Whom all things were made; Who
for us men and for our salvation, came down
from Heaven, and was Incarnate by the Holy
Spirit of the Virgin Mary and was made Man;
He was crucified also for us under Pontius
Pilate, and was buried. And the
third day He rose again according to the
Scriptures, and ascended into Heaven. He
sitteth at the right hand of the Father: and He shall
come again with glory to judge the living
and the dead: and His kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and
Giver of life, Who proceedeth from the Father and
the Son, Who, together with the Father and the Son,
is adored and glorified: Who spoke by the
prophets. And I believe in one holy Catholic and
apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism
for the remission of sins. And I expect the resurrection
of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

 

 

  The Trentine Creed or
The Creed of Pius IV. , A.D. 1564.

1. I most steadfastly admit and embrace Apostolical and ecclesiastical traditions,
and all other observances and constitutions of the Church.
2. I also admit the Holy Scripture according to that sense which our
holy mother the Church has held, and does hold, to which it belongs to judge of
the true sense and interpretations of the Scriptures. Neither will I ever take and
interpret them otherwise than according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.
3. I also profess that there are truly and properly seven Sacraments of the
New Law, instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord, and necessary for the salvation
of mankind, though not all for every one; to wit, Baptism, Confirmation,
Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; and that they
confer grace; and that of these, Baptism, Confirmation, and Order cannot be
reiterated without sacrilege. I also receive and admit the received and approved
ceremonies of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of the
aforesaid Sacraments.
4. I embrace and receive all and every one of the things which have been
defined and declared in the holy Council of Trent concerning Original Sin
and justification.
5. I profess, likewise, that in the Mass there is offered to God a true, proper,
and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead; and that in the most
holy sacrament of the Eucharist there is truly, really, and substantially,
the Body and Blood, together with the Soul and Divinity, of our Lord
Jesus Christ; and that there is made a conversion of the whole substance of
the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the
 wine into the blood, which conversion the Catholic Church calls
Transubstantiation. I also confess that under either kind alone Christ is
received whole and entire, and a true Sacrament.
6. I constantly hold that there is a Purgatory, and that the souls therein
detained are helped by the suffrages of the faithful.
7. Likewise, that the saints, reigning together with Christ, are to be honored
and invocated, and that they offer prayers to God for us, and that their relics
are to be respected.
8. I most firmly assert that the images of Christ, of the mother of God, ever
virgin, and also of the saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due
honor and veneration is to be given them.
9. I also affirm that the power of indulgences was left by Christ in the Church,
and that the use of them is most wholesome to Christian people.
10. I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church for the mother
and mistress of all churches; and I promise true obedience to the Bishop of Rome,
successor to St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ.
11. I likewise undoubtedly receive and profess all other things delivered, defined,
and declared by the sacred Canons, and general Councils, and particularly
by the holy Council of Trent.
12. And I condemn, reject, and anathematize all things contrary thereto,
and all heresies whatsoever, condemned, rejected, and anathematized by
the Church. This true Catholic faith, without which no one can be saved,
I. N.N. do at this present freely confess and sincerely hold; and I promise most
constantly to retain, and confess the same entire and unviolated, with God's
assistance, to the end of my life.

[Salvation]

What’s the Point of Creeds?
Who Needs a Creed? (part 1 of 12)

Creed 7: Ascended Into Heaven
Beginning Catholic: Creeds: Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Basic Tenets of Catholicism [Ecumenical]
The Catholic Nicene Creed
We Believe in One God...: The Nicene Creed at Mass [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
I Believe [Apostle's Creed]

Why the Creed Doesn't Mention the Eucharist
The Apostles' Creed in Public and Private Worship
More Than Our Father [The Creed]
The Nicene Creed in Greek and Latin
The Creed - latest revisions proposed by ICEL

[reaganaut]

Creeds are unifying statements of faith. They were developed by the Early Church as a test of Orthodoxy and as a response to heresies.

I find the creeds to be powerful statements. I wish more Protestant groups would use them or use them more often.

Stating your faith in common with other believers is a very powerful experience.

[Salvation]

We say the Nicene Creed every Sunday. What church to you attend? Do you say a creed each Sunday?

We also start the Rosary with the Apostles’ Creed.

[reaganaut]

I attend a non-denominational (VERY CONSERVATIVE) Christian Church. We do say the Apostles creed regularly but not every Sunday. I have been to several Mainline protestant churches that do not say any creed at all.

In this day where false teachings abound, I firmly believe that Christians need to be held more strongly to the contents of the Creeds.

[newguy357]

The Episcopal church says the same creeds every week, yet the church is corrupt root and branch. I admire the beauty of the liturgy, but we are done for if we rest in it thinking that rote recitation will maintain true teaching.

[reaganaut]

The Episcopal church says the same creeds every week, yet the church is corrupt root and branch. I admire the beauty of the liturgy, but we are done for if we rest in it thinking that rote recitation will maintain true teaching.

- - - — - - -
I agree rote recitation is not an answer. The Episcopal church (and many other churches) have erred in not holding its adherents to the beliefs found the CONTENT of the creeds. That is what needs to change. My church holds true to the content of the creeds regardless of how often they say them.

I also know several churches that never say any creeds yet hold true to their contents.

Liberal churches who recite the creeds, yet teach opposite doctrine are like the Pharisees whom Christ speaks about in Matthew 15:18:

“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”

[Mad Dawg]

Hi.

Former Pepsicolian here.

In terms of Salvation’s choice (a few posts above) of worshipping the words or scorning them, SOME Pepsicolians manage to do both! I heard the rector of a nearby parish call the creed a “poem”! My ample behind it’s a poem! But one could see that what he was doing was giving himself permission to say it without meaning it.

But, saying it beats not saying it (or them) for the reason that out there is some young kid who doesn’t yet realize that the man in a dress is lying. That kid is wrestling with the creeds, trying to understand them and why we say them and what they’re about. So the insincere liturgical blather of the priest is being used by God to touch the heart and mind of one of His elect.

I know whereof I speak here ...

[JEHUE]

The Catholic creed!...

The Catholic creed is why “ The Catholics “ were not allowed to write our constitution...

It’s all about “ We The Catholics, “ not “We The People. “

[Kolokotronis]

Not a bad article through about here:

“What is the object, the Truth? Saint Thomas says that the primary object of faith is not words and statements but God himself. “We believe in God.” Further, as Christians we know God most fully in Christ, God incarnate, and as Catholics we know Christ through Holy Mother Church and her creeds.”

This is pure, patristic Christian theology.

But he falls right off the cliff, displaying his Protestant roots after this:

“Objectively, the core of faith is God, who is a Person, not a concept.”

God is not a “Person” or a “Persona”. God is ineffable, the “Being which creates beingness” We believe in God but God does not “exist” in any sense we comprehend. Any other concept leads to anthropomorphism, as for example this:

“God does not send you to hell for flunking his theology exam but for willingly divorcing from him.”

Nonsense. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. God’s mercy and love fall on the good and the evil alike, like rain on the earth. To say that God’s grace doesn’t fall on the evil is like saying the sun doesn’t shine on the blind! We can grow to hate God so much that His love becomes a fire which torments us just as it burnishes and refines those who love Him.

I am always pleased when a Protestant returns to The Church; it is cause for rejoicing. But The Church has an obligation to properly catechise people before they begin to “preach”.

[kosta50]

And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son...

What you posted is an adulterated Nicene Creed. The Nicene-Constantinopolean Creed never had "and the Son."

I am not sure why the Latin Church has so many Creeds. The Church agreed to one Creed, acclaimed at an Ecumenical Council, believed infallible and guided by the Holy Spirit. Is that not enough for some individuals in your Church? Or is making an imprint of one's own ego so important as to try to embellish something considered infallible?

[muawiyah]

Intellectialism is hardly a problem. Faux intellectuals are. The Obama regime is filled with faux intellectuals. Otherwise they are all rather thuggish and dull witted.

[Tennessee Nana]

When I was a child we said the Apostles Creed and/or the Nicene Creed every Sunday...

I had to learn them by heart and recite them to be confirmed into the Anglican church at 14...

[Appleby]

In a search for some church in Toronto that contained people who would welcome me, I attended a United Church in my neighbourhood (that turned out to be the wealthiest church in the city). They required that you only believe 85% of the Creed in order to be a member. (They were actively hostile to new members, and anti-American sermons were preached routinely by their South African pastor). I think a Creed is either or — you do not get to pick which bits you will believe and which you will not.

I have always thought that in addition to a statement of facts, the Creed is food for meditation.

[NYer]

I admire the beauty of the liturgy, but we are done for if we rest in it thinking that rote recitation will maintain true teaching.

This is an excellent point. As Catholics, we profess our faith each Sunday by reciting the Nicene Creed, yet I wonder how many do so out of rote rather than truly reflecting on the truths expressed therein. To ensure we have a firm uderstanding of our faith (i.e. what we state each Sunday), the Church has given us the catechism. It breaks the Nicene Creed down into its elements and then links each statement to Scripture. For example:

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION ONE
"I BELIEVE" - "WE BELIEVE"

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).

CHAPTER ONE
MAN'S CAPACITY FOR GOD

I. THE DESIRE FOR GOD

27 The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.¹

28  In many ways, throughout history down to the present day, men have given expression to their quest for God in their religious beliefs and behavior: in their prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, and so forth. These forms of religious expression, despite the ambiguities they often bring with them, are so universal that one may well call man a religious being:

From one ancestor [God] made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him - though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For "in him we live and move and have our being."²

1 Vatican Council II, GS 19 § 1.
2 Acts 17:26-28.

You can see more of how this comes together at the following link.

Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[NYer]

God is not a “Person” or a “Persona”. God is ineffable, the “Being which creates beingness” We believe in God but God does not “exist” in any sense we comprehend. Any other concept leads to anthropomorphism, as for example this:

K ... you are being too scrupulous with the text. Catholics believe the same thing, even Protestant converts. Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant, words limit our ability to express the ineffable.

40 Since our knowledge of God is limited, our language about him is equally so. We can name God only by taking creatures as our starting point, and in accordance with our limited human ways of knowing and thinking.

41 All creatures bear a certain resemblance to God, most especially man, created in the image and likeness of God. The manifold perfections of creatures - their truth, their goodness, their beauty all reflect the infinite perfection of God. Consequently we can name God by taking his creatures" perfections as our starting point, "for from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding perception of their Creator".¹⁵

42  God transcends all creatures. We must therefore continually purify our language of everything in it that is limited, image-bound or imperfect, if we are not to confuse our image of God - "the inexpressible, the incomprehensible, the invisible, the ungraspable" - with our human representations.¹⁶ Our human words always fall short of the mystery of God.

43 Admittedly, in speaking about God like this, our language is using human modes of expression; nevertheless it really does attain to God himself, though unable to express him in his infinite simplicity. Likewise, we must recall that "between Creator and creature no similitude can be expressed without implying an even greater dissimilitude";¹⁷ and that "concerning God, we cannot grasp what he is, but only what he is not, and how other beings stand in relation to him."¹⁸

15 Wis 13:5.
16 Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, Anaphora.
17 Lateran Council IV:DS 806.
18 St. Thomas Aquinas, SCG I,30.

CCC

Having previously been an altar server in the Roman Catholic Church, you already know this.

[mad_as_he$$]

Mine is simpler and lots more effective.

Live each day with courage.

Take pride in your work.

Always finish what you start.

Do what has to be done.

Be tough, but fair.

When you make a promise, keep it.

Ride for the brand.

Talk less and say more.

Remember that some things aren't for sale.

Know where to draw the line.

Life is hard, it is harder if you are stupid.

Nemo me impune lacessit.

"Courage is when you are scared to death, saddle up and ride out anyway.

John Wayne

[FourtySeven]

Perhaps dear Kolokotronis was making the (IMO correct) point that God isn’t a person, but God the Father is (like God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are too). IOW, to correctly convey the Triune concept of God, it’s best to not refer to “God” as a person, but only refer to a person of the Trinity when speaking of such. In the context of the text in dispute, it seems the author was speaking of God the Son, so in that sense he (the author) was right, but in a technical sense it can be said that the author should have been more clear. (i.e. saying “Objectively, the core of faith is God the Son, who is a Person, not a concept.”)

Maybe?