Posted on 05/01/2009 10:31:49 PM PDT by Salvation
M. Sayers wrote a book “The Mind of God” that explained the Holy Trinity beautifully. She refered to a book and its creation. First you have the Idea (the ‘father’, the Logos, the concept), then you have its Manifestation (the ‘son’, the hardcopy, the words on the page, the actual document) and then you have the Inspiration (the ‘holy spirit’, the Effect). Three in one. One is not separate from the other, yet they are distinct parts.
Sounds like a pretty good book.
Where do you find "trinity of man" in the bible?
Guess that's why you guys don't accept nor believe in the spiritual circumcisiion that takes place at the New Birth...
Who said so? Show me where the Church says there is no circumcision in the heart...
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
That's just Paul making up a new religion for the Greeks and Romans. Jesus Christ never said anything like that in the Gospels.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Oooh, the author of the Hebrews says so? Why do you believe him, and oridnary man? You don't even know who he is!
This is a partial description of the spiritul circumcision...It separates the physical human body from the spiritual...Prior to that circumcision, they are connected...
Is that a fact?
Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Did Jesus really believe this was possible or did his human nature eclipse his divine nature? There is something seriously wrong with him asking his Father to take this cup away. What happened to perfect obedience, even for a fleeting moment?
So what are you saying??? Different 'natures' that disagree with each other??? I don't care what name you put on it but the scriptures show that there are three and those three are one...
Where does the scripture say that the Spirit is one with the Father and the Son? And doesn't the Son say that the Father is greater than the Son?
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
That verse proves absolutely nothing. It simply says that whatever I receive I shall have. Nothing very profound about that is there?
The 'nature' of God as God gives to the nature of Jesus as God???
In a sense that is orthodox, as regards the monarchia of the Father. Christian core doctrine is based upon the belief that God the Father is the source of everything and all, and is the only one without a cause; the Son is eternally begotten by, and the Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father. So, yes, in extremis, the Father gives his nature to his Son and to the Spirit. They are one in essence only, which they share from the Father, but not in cause.
And you claim I say they are not related???
In post #68 you write "You have the outer shell, the inner tube, and the air that inflates the tire...That's how I view God...One football, three parts, but yet one..." to "explain the Trinity. Last time I checked, the outer shell, the inner tube and the air are all different substance (essence, nature). How does that make them "related" except in function or purpose. That kind of belief smacks of Mormonism.
As far as I know it [heretic] means schismatic...Which is anathema to your religion...But then schismatic may be another Greek word, or Latin, or Ukranian, in which case I'd have to do more research
Schismatic is a Greek word (surprise, surprise!) and is not the same as heretic. Heretic is someone who is outside of the norms of the faith; a schismatic is someone who is still within the faith but in some eecclesiastical disagreement. For example, those bishops who rejected the Vatican II became schismatics because they still believe in the same thing the rest of the Church believes; they simply disagree with Rome's version of the liturgy. Those bishops who professed that Jesus was a "lesser" God (Arians) are heretics because this is outside of the core Christian belief.
The word heretic itself simply means someone who is "outside" for the lack of a better definition. The word anathema also doesn't mean what the western cultures made it to mean (damnation). Please study what those words mean in Greek because they were used by the Church in Greek and in the context of the Greek.
It clear that you nor I have seen the end of the creation of man
I thought the bible is explicit that God finished all his work in seven "days." (and here I go believing that God is outside of time and that he created everything and all before the foundation of the world, LOL!), and you are telling me that he still has some work left to do creating...how perfect is that?
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
It's all over the place...God formed the flesh of Adam out of the ground...He was given a soul and the 'spirit' of life was breathed into him...
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And here it shows that that as Christians our spirit is replaced by the Holy Spirit...
You may be at a disadvantage...If you initially had preconceptions of man not being a triune being, perahap when you came across the verses that show otherwise, you automatically or subconsiously blocked them out...They are there...
I'll lump the next few together...
Who said so? Show me where the Church says there is no circumcision in the heart...
Apparently you, Paul and I differ on what the spiritual circumcision is...We can see what Paul says, and obviously you disagree with him...
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
That's just Paul making up a new religion for the Greeks and Romans. Jesus Christ never said anything like that in the Gospels.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Oooh, the author of the Hebrews says so? Why do you believe him, and oridnary man? You don't even know who he is!
There are two ways I can go here...I can tell you what I see in the scriptures...Or I can acknowledge that fact that your bible consists of only the books where Matt., Mark, Luke, and John make the claim that Jesus spoke to them and they wrote down what he said...
How can I, a bible believer discuss the bible with someone who doesn't accept it as the word of God...Just the word of some men...
You're wasting my time...So no thanks...
Iscool — reciting the creed isn’t some magic bullet that makes you Christian, but, more importantly, it helps us understand the structure of Christianity, the basic building blocks. It tells you what IS Christianity and how we are not Mormons or Muslims or Sikhs.
and BAD fiction that too!
Iscool: It's all over the place...Gen 2:7...and man became a living soul.
The "living soul" simply means a living being, made up of two, not three components, the flesh and the spirit. There is no "trinity" here.
And here it shows that that as Christians our spirit is replaced by the Holy Spirit...
LOL! That would make us God!
How can I, a bible believer discuss the bible with someone who doesn't accept it as the word of God...Just the word of some men
First you say it is a word of God, yet why should I believe you? The Muslims say the Koran is the word of Allah and the Jews say the New Testament is not true. Where is the certificate of authenticity in any of these claims, including yours?
And what is a "discussion" with someone who agrees with you, with those who pat each other on the back? It's living in your own world where no one challenges your claims. I call that hiding.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Apparently you guys don't just condemn using the scripture 'alone'...You condemn using the scripture 'at all', unless you can squeeze something out of it that may (or may not) remotely bolster your theory on what God taught us...
One interesting thing is that apparently your early church knew far better than you...The guy that wrote the original Catholic bible, Jerome, knew that we have a body and a soul and a spirit...And so did the Douay/Rheims people...Here's Jerome's writing...
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and effectual and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow: and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I can't wait for iscool to respond to this one...
2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Your religion could not exist were it not for the scriptures, just as izlam could not exist without the Koran or the Mormans without Joe Smith's book...
But yet the scriptures are such a mystery to you guys...You're quick to point out that many veses don't mean what they say but then you're completely silent on what you think they do mean...
The verse says soul AND spirit as contrasted with joints AND marrow...Must be joints and marrow are the same thing as well in your world, eh???
Strange that He revealed Himself in such 'anthropomorphic' terms. “God does not send you to hell for flunking his theology exam but for willingly divorcing from him.” Nonsense. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. God’s mercy and love fall on the good and the evil alike, like rain on the earth. People do end up in Hell, though.
I can't wait for iscool to respond to this one...
What??? If you knew your bibles, you'd know that I always quote from the only bible that has the correct verse in it...
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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