Fresh debate over human origins

BBC News ^ | 24 December 2002 | staff

[PatrickHenry]

The theory that we are all descended from early humans who left Africa about 100,000 years ago has again been called into question.

US researchers sifting through data from the human genome project say they have uncovered evidence in support of a rival theory.

Most scientists agree with the idea that our ancestors first spread out of Africa about 1.8 million years ago, conquering other lands.

What happened next is more controversial.

The prevailing theory is that a second exodus from Africa replaced all of the local populations, such as Europe's Neanderthals.

Some anthropologists, however, advocate the so-called multiregional theory, that not all the local populations were replaced.

They think some of these ancient people interbred with African hominids, contributing to the gene pool of modern humans.

The new evidence, published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is based on an analysis of data from the human genome project - the effort to map the entire human genetic blueprint.

Blood and bones

Researchers led by Henry Harpending, professor of anthropology at Utah University, studied small differences in human DNA known as single nucleotide polymorphisms.

Studying when these mutations appeared gives a window into the ancient past, allowing scientists to trace the rise and fall of early humans in different parts of the world.

"The new data seem to suggest that early human pioneers moving out of Africa starting 80,000 years ago did not completely replace local populations in the rest of the world," he says. "There is instead some sign of interbreeding."

The study suggests that there was a bottleneck in the human population when ancestors of modern humans colonised Europe about 40,000 years ago.

This is a puzzle because earlier human genetic studies have backed the idea that a rapidly expanding African population spread globally and replaced all local populations.

One possibility is that there was limited interbreeding between humans migrating from Africa and local populations in Europe and elsewhere.

'Open question'

Commenting on the research, Professor Chris Stringer, Head of Human Origins at London's Natural History Museum, said that in the last few years the multiregional model of human evolution had been called into question by new data, much of it genetic, showing our species had a recent African origin.

He told BBC News Online: "Arguments now centre on whether we are recently and entirely Out of Africa, or just mainly so.

"Some replacement models, and some genetic data, suggest no interbreeding at all with archaic peoples outside of Africa, while other replacement models allow limited interbreeding with the locals over the short time scale in which they overlapped.

"This new research suggests there could have been some interbreeding, but as the authors recognise, it could have been limited, and whether it happened at all is still an open question."

[Thommas]

If they say they universe is 6000 years old.

Well, there is the crux of their argument. THEY say the universe is 6k years old. God did not say such.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"anywhere in the universe, has developed from a DNA infrastructure"

I think in the 5th grade we learned that DNA = the building blocks of life. So if the analogy stands then everything would be made of the same chains of DNA since that is the component.

As a computer jock I make the connection that DNA is infact code and can be arranged and rearranged to make a variety of various outputs but the basic code is still the same.

The only problem I have is that random mistakes in code never cause a program to get better = evolve. Errors only create disfunction in computer code and I suspect DNA also.

[Iota]

You may have already seen this, but in case you haven't (or in case some others haven't), here's the best description I've read of the "Appearance of Age" problem for Creationists:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/appearance_of_age.htm

[f.Christian]

``I was a communist for 30 years...

and I listened to so much of this demagoguery that now,

with my democratic views, I can... no longer(link)---stand it,''

[f.Christian]

Main Entry: 1dem·a·gogue
Variant(s): or dem·a·gog /'de-m&-"gäg/
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek dEmagOgos, from dEmos people (perhaps akin to Greek daiesthai to divide) + agOgos leading, from agein to lead -- more at TIDE, AGENT
Date: 1648
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times
- dem·a·gogu·ery /-"gä-g(&-)rE/ noun
- dem·a·gogy /-"gä-gE, -"gä-jE, -"gO-jE/ noun

[AndrewC]

Yes, and Andrew was used by somebody before me, but it still is my name, and the celebration is called CHRISTmas. The anointed one is well known. We celebrated His birthday even though it might not be the 25th of December nor have happened exactly 2002 years ago. So what, we just celebrated His birthday using a dating system reckoned from His birth no matter what it is called. Merry CHRISTMAS and a happy new (Anno Domini) 2003 year!

[f.Christian]

Ushering in the One-World Religion

Posted by f.Christian to Green Knight
On News/Activism 12/27/2002 11:59 AM PST #39 of 39

gk...

Gaea worship in no time at all...

fC...

never heard of liberal science/politics... advanced upper division Gaea worship(link)---SSevolution?

[f.Christian]

oops...

never heard of 'one world' liberal science/politics/RELIGION?

Check out the posts of ph...sentis---"total"--"only"--"no competition"...'hard' science!

[Junior]

I'm not sure you realize that, even if life on other planets used DNA, the odds of any extraterrestrial creature being as closely related to humans as are chimps would be astronomical. The alien DNA would not have the viral inclusions that are present in terrestrial DNA, nor would they have the particular patterns of transposed genes which point to the interrelatedness of terrestrial life.

[Pharmboy]

Here's a knotty problem for you sir:

How can the SAME biologists--you know, the ones who figured out how to produce vaccines, kill bad bacteria, make recombinant proteins based on genomic knowledge, use gene therapy for single-gene disorders and actually clone mammals (whether or not they accomplished this in humans remains to be seen, but surely it is only a matter of time) be so COMPLETELY WRONG in reading the evidence for evolution? Huh?

cc: patrickhenry

[Sentis]

Oh dont even speak to fchristian his posts are never actually even written by him. He is merely cutting and pasting from some source or another. In fact if you look around you can often find where he took it from. I have seen him post something once he actually typed and it was about five words then he reposted it about six times by cutting and pasting.

[f.Christian]

redundant...you probably haven't had an original thought in your lifetime---rote reason/'logic'!

[f.Christian]

Main Entry: Gor·di·an knot
Pronunciation: 'gor-dE-&n-
Function: noun
1 : an intricate problem; especially : a problem insoluble in its own terms -- usually used in the phrase cut the Gordian knot
2 : a knot tied by Gordius, king of Phrygia, held to be capable of being untied only by the future ruler of Asia, and cut by Alexander the Great with his sword

[PatrickHenry]

It's "internet therapy" time at the asylum again. Don't worry, if he becomes too agitated, they'll take away his keyboard.

[f.Christian]

Here's a clue...

science doesn't evolve/morph---

flabby brains don't stop(might even be right/stable between leaps/flops---by accident)!

[f.Christian]

Main Entry: 3rote
Function: adjective
Date: 1641
1 : learned or memorized by rote
2 : MECHANICAL 3a

[f.Christian]

Check out the posts of ph...sentis---"total"--"only"--"no competition"...'hard' science(evoflux/flash) via 'reason(bias/mush)'!

[PatrickHenry]

Self-search bump.

[gore3000]

And yet the professionals -- the guys who actually know what they are talking about and do the actual work -- don't think the evidence denies it. It's a wonder you're even on this thread, as neither side being debated assumes the validity of Biblical creation or ID and are approaching the problem from a purely scientific point of view.

Well, prostitutes are professionals too, that does not mean we should take what they say seriously does it?

We have no DNA evidence of any non-human species other than Neanderthals. The evidence of all three examples of such DNA show conclusively that man did not descend from Neanderthals and could not produce offsprings with Neanderthal. This conclusion is supported (and only verified the anthropoligal evidence which also supported the non-mixing of Home Sapiens and Neanderthal). So these so-called 'professionals' of yours are just weaving a tall story out of whole cloth.

[Torie]

It was the big bang John. But now there is a lot of chat that there is enough matter out there, that the universe will stop expanding and implode, and human race is all going to die when that obtains. But absent allowing the drug companies to do their thing, so the old can live for next to forever, you and I will not be there to witness it, one way or another. Well, you might from heaven. And there you have it.