Army Calls ‘Birther’ Doc’s Bluff

It's guts ball time for an Army surgeon who has vowed not to deploy to Afghanistan with his unit unless President Obama provides evidence that he's a "natural born" citizen of the United States.

In response to previously published statements by Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin, the Army presented an official letter of counseling that directs him to report to Fort Campbell, Ky., on April 12 to begin deployment preparations with his unit.

. And a man born in the USA whose foreigner father abandoned him

It woudl be more accurate to say that his mother abandoned his father. She was in Seattle mere weeks after Juniors alleged date of birth. She was already admitted to the U. of Hawaii, and had already attended for a semester. But she apparently felt the need to get away from Senior. She did not return to Hawaii until after Senior was long gone. BUT, then she re-enrolled at U of HI, eventually getting bachelors, masters and PhD degrees from there.

Who qualified him?

But I was speaking of the hypothetical case where a person was elected and took office, but then was found to not be eligible.

Under US Law and the US Constitution, there are four required steps to qualifying a president: (1) registered voters vote for Electors in the general election (2) a candidate receives a majority of the Electoral College votes; (3) a candidate is certified by the President of the Senate (the Vice President) at a joint session of Congress as the person who received the most Electoral votes. There is a process in the US Code of Laws to object to the certification of the Electoral votes of an ineligible candidate or an ineligible elector. And (4) the certified winner is sworn in on Inauguration Day.
The Constitution and US Law is mute on any other process except impeachment, trial and conviction to remove a person from the presidency once they assume the office.
An ineligible person in the office of president can be tried in the Senate for high crimes and misdemeanors and removed by the votes of 67 Senators.

CharlesWayneCT said: "But until proven otherwise, Obama is the duly sworn President. [...] Any soldier, at any time, being allowed to refuse an order pending a court challenge about the president would be an untenable situation."

The "presumption of innocence" and the burden of proof on a prosecutor in a criminal trial does not imply that a person elected to the Presidency must be presumed to be eligible.

The fact that a Democratic Congress permits Obama's records to remain hidden is the problem; it is not the solution to the problem.

In my life, Nixon came perilously close to undermining the rule of law and bringing about a critical national emergency. Had he refused to obey the Supreme Court's decision to turn over the tapes, we could have found ourselves in a situation where armed soldiers would bar entry to the White House by an officer of the Supreme Court attempting to retrieve evidence of a crime.

Would you have U.S. soldiers forcibly bar an officer of the Supreme Court from the White House by following "lawful" orders of their commanders stemming from orders from Nixon?

Had Nixon refused the orders of the Supreme Court, I was prepared to march on Washington myself. Would U.S. soldiers be justified in barring me from carrying out the orders of the Supreme Court?

Preservation of order is not a higher purpose than preservation of the Constitution. My freedom can survive disorder; it cannot survive violation of the Constitution.

Regardless of the merits of Lakin’s case, I suspect since the Army leadership has been justly criticized for not dealing with the Mooselimb Major quickly enough, they will be looking for a chance to show they have reformed in that aspect. Lakin may be made an example of.

What does one have to do with the other? The one guy was "consulting" with a known terrorist, making presentations about how the terrorists are justified, and so on. Plus he was a lousy at his job.

By all accounts Lt. Col Lakin has been an outstanding officer and physician. He isn't advocating anyone else follow him, or act in a similar manner.

The situations are not even vaguely comparable.

I smell overreach and desperation.

That's never been proven.

Moving the goalposts. All of the available evidence says that your two statements are incorrect. You have no evidence to support their accuracy or factual validity. The lack of supporting evidence and the existence of contradictory evidence is a strong showing that you're wrong.

Sorry, but I don't believe that. The reporter claimed that he found the part about Obama's birth in Indonesia on the Internet. That doesn't wash.

Argument from personal incredulity. Unless you want to claim that the author is lying about where he got "Indonesia" from, and advance some plausible hypothesis as to why he would lie, it seems the only reason you don't believe him is because his confession does not sync with your preexisting hypothesis.

And why would it be implausible that he found the part about an Indonesian birth on the internet? Isn't that where you found it? The internet is awash with bad information. The difference is that the Duckworth article's author, when confronted with new evidence showing his original assumption was wrong, issued a correction.

Several places reported it, until Obama settled one place and had 'corrections' made. Here's a story about it:

http://www.sonorannews.com/archives/2009/090715/webonlynews.html

Did you read that article before linking to it? Because there are no references in that article to instances where Obama reported having been born in any hospital other than Kapiolani. ZERO.

You've repeated a few times now that Obama reported more than one hospital as his place of birth. Above, you claim that several places have reported this. Can you provide even ONE real example of Obama identifying a hospital other than Queens? Just one?

Actually he’s not “being accused” of being a citizen of any other country, not directly. He’s being “accused” of not having two US citizen parents, which he and his staff readily admit.

Where in the US Constitution or where in the US Code does it say that a natural born citizen has to have two US Citizen parents? The Supreme Court in fact has ruled just the opposite.
The 14th Amendment says “ALL, I repeat, ALL persons BORN or naturalized in the US are citizens. A born citizen and a natural born citizen are synonomous and there are scores of Supreme Court decisions that back that up.

You left out the small matter of first being eligible to hold the office.

There is a process in the US Code of Laws to object to the certification of the Electoral votes of an ineligible candidate or an ineligible elector. And (4) the certified winner is sworn in on Inauguration Day.

Actually I've read that section of the law, 3 USC 15 and it provides for objecting to the vote count from a state (the votes themselves are given in the states, and indirectly to the votes of the electors. It's about process and not at all about eligibility of the Candidates. The grounds for objection are very narrow, and do not include the qualification of the candidates. But the law does say that the President of the Senate (the "old" Vice President) is to call for objections, which he did not. Here is the relevant section for those not wishing to click on the link.

Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified.

YOU: Horseshit. Kindly show me Obama’s British or Kenyan passport or citizenship papers. You want a court to overturn a national election because Obama REALLY FEELS BRITISH!

YOU: Obama has a screwed up mind, but anyone who claims he has a foreign allegiance to the UK is insane. Likewise, while he has some mild fondness for Kenya, he lets his half-brother live in a slum there. No, Obama doesn’t think of himself as a subject of Kenya!

That 'Horeshit' flows from your mouth. It is kinda hard to find any of his personal documents since Obama controls and hides all of them from public view. The courts do not have to overturn the election, but they could find Obama not eligible as president, therefore, all his laws and orders could be challenged as illegal. He would be Captain Duncel at the helm of a ship without authority. The logical option after Obama is found ineligible as "president" is for him to resign.

Obama has had 2 or possible 3 foreign citizenships. The criteria is not how Obama feels to the UK but the fact that he has held a foreign citizenship at birth. A citizen owes an allegiance to a country by the fact that he is a citizen of a country. Quoting Mr. Dicey who Justice Gray cited in his 1898 Wong Kim Ark opinion, that ""British subject" [Obama] means any person who owes permanent allegiance to the Crown" Liberals love to cite WKA as law and here it is back at you.

You should know Obama does have a kinship toward Kenya as Michelle Obama admitted that Kenya is "his home country" in a recently surfaced video. Obama said in Berlin, Germany, he is 'a world citizen' back in 2008. Kenya is building a multi-million dollar shrine to Obama. Monument in the form of statue(s) of his likeness are built in Indonesia . Is Obama still a citizen of Indonesia? We do have a Indonesian school document that states Obama as a citizen of Indonesia.

Does Obama appear to you that he has the best interests in mind for "his" country? You only have to honestly examine what he is doing. None of what is known about Obama give you pause to re-think or at least question his full allegiance to the United States?

A born citizen and a natural born citizen are synonomous and there are scores of Supreme Court decisions that back that up.

Not hardly. There is a decision as recent as 1971 that says those born citizens, who are citizens because of 8 USC 1401, who were born outside the US are naturalized and not even covered by the 14th amendment, since they are not "naturalized in the United States". Basically the decision indicates that their "citizenship from birth" may be removed for failure to meet certain criteria. This is not true of person's naturalized in the US, unless it can be determined that they were naturalized based on fraudulently provided information.

If he has it, why has he been so reluctant to produce it in a Court of Law. An image on the internet doesn’t count. Especially one of a document that is just a computer printout in the first place, and thus pretty easy to cobble up a “real” looking fake.

Obama’s original birth documents can be subpoenaed on an order from a court of competent jurisdiction. Thus far, no one has sought such a subpoena. It is not the responsibility of the defendant to produce evidence for the plaintiff! If Obama’s internet posted image is forged or fraudulent, let someone charge him with forgery or fraud. No one has.
John McCain and/or the Republican National Committee might have legal standing to pursue such a case but they have not sued and they have not even submitted an amicus brief in support of any of the existing lawsuits. That is very telling to me.

How do you know that a hard copy of Obama’s COLB hasn’t been included with the legal briefs in many of the seventy-some lawsuits that have been dismissed already by various local, state, and federal courts?
It is even more likely that a sworn deposition from the Director of the Hawaii State Health Department confirming Obama’s birth in Hawaii has been included with legal briefs submitted by the defense in those lawsuits. A sworn deposition is usually good enough for any Judge but since every Hawaii Certification of Live Birth says “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding,” I’m betting a copy of the document has also been included for judges and justices to review when they are deliberating whether to dismiss or reject a lawsuit.
The short form COLB is the only document that Obama will ever need to produce since it is the official birth certificate of the state of Hawaii since 2001 and because it contains all the information required by the Constitution to establish natural born citizen status.
The Constitution does not ask for birth weight, name of hospital or name of attending physician, just place of birth and age.

Not hardly. There is a decision as recent as 1971 that says those born citizens, who are citizens because of 8 USC 1401, who were born outside the US are naturalized and not even covered by the 14th amendment, since they are not “naturalized in the United States”. Basically the decision indicates that their “citizenship from birth” may be removed for failure to meet certain criteria. This is not true of person’s naturalized in the US, unless it can be determined that they were naturalized based on fraudulently provided information.

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

That ‘Horeshit’ flows from your mouth. It is kinda hard to find any of his personal documents since Obama controls and hides all of them from public view. The courts do not have to overturn the election, but they could find Obama not eligible as president, therefore, all his laws and orders could be challenged as illegal. He would be Captain Duncel at the helm of a ship without authority. The logical option after Obama is found ineligible as “president” is for him to resign.

Obama has had 2 or possible 3 foreign citizenships. The criteria is not how Obama feels to the UK but the fact that he has held a foreign citizenship at birth. A citizen owes an allegiance to a country by the fact that he is a citizen of a country. Quoting Mr. Dicey who Justice Gray cited in his 1898 Wong Kim Ark opinion, that “”British subject” [Obama] means any person who owes permanent allegiance to the Crown” Liberals love to cite WKA as law and here it is back at you.

You should know Obama does have a kinship toward Kenya as Michelle Obama admitted that Kenya is “his home country” in a recently surfaced video. Obama said in Berlin, Germany, he is ‘a world citizen’ back in 2008. Kenya is building a multi-million dollar shrine to Obama. Monument in the form of statue(s) of his likeness are built in Indonesia . Is Obama still a citizen of Indonesia? We do have a Indonesian school document that states Obama as a citizen of Indonesia.

Does Obama appear to you that he has the best interests in mind for “his” country? You only have to honestly examine what he is doing. None of what is known about Obama give you pause to re-think or at least question his full allegiance to the United States?

For the record, Obama’s British citizenship expired on December 12, 1963 when Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom.
Obama’s Kenyan citizenship expired on August 4, 1984. The Kenyan Constitution required Obama to choose whether to keep either his U.S. or Kenyan citizenship upon his 21st birthday, which was in 1982. But the Kenyan Constitution provided him a two-year window for making that choice. So Obama did not lose his Kenyan citizenship until his 23rd birthday in 1984.
Indonesia does not permit dual citizenship.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, [state that] Barack Hussein Obama ... is a natural-born American citizen."

She, Chiyome Fukino, is not a lawyer, nor did she offer any support of her 'finding' on a subject of the most weighty and unsettled Constitutional law. Subsequent requests to Hawaiian officials for clarification and support of that bold statement of fact that were made by various requestors under a number of public access statutes have been stonewalled.

Even the most minimal sense of duty, politeness and respect for the opinions of those whom she serves -- would bid her to explain how it was she was able to state so boldly such a thing.

Without such, and with the abject stonewalling, it is entirely clear to all unbiased observers that Fukino and Hawaiian officials are covering up something that is not right, not in order.

Obama to choose whether to keep either his U.S. or Kenyan citizenship upon his 21st birthday, which was in 1982. But the Kenyan Constitution provided him a two-year window for making that choice. So Obama did not lose his Kenyan citizenship until his 23rd birthday in 1984. Indonesia does not permit dual citizenship.

Obama had a foreign citizenship at birth prevents Obama from ever being a US natural born citizen.

Indonesia does not permit dual citizenship.

We have documented proof of Obama being an Indonesian citizen you Obama apparatchik:

I believe to those who believe Barack Obama is not qualified Constitutionally to hold the office of POTUS, he is recognized as “de facto President in posse” and as “de jure President in posse.” That doesn’t fit neatly onto an envelope.

Nor very likely would having addressed a letter as this man did be recognized as an admission against interest before any tribunal.

Lakin could have simply addressed the letter “Barack Obama”. You can bet that the proscution will attempt to introduce the letter if there is to be a court martial.
There are Obama eligibility lawsuits that have been filed against “Barry Soetoro.” What’s in a name?

Too bad for you that in the two plus years that the Obama eligibility issue has been around, you haven’t been able to convince ANY court of law in the nation to take a look at your so-called “evidence.” That includes seven rejections at the US Supreme Court and not one single nationally known conservative leader nor the Republican National Committee has joined in any lawsuit or filed an amicus brief in support of any lawsuit.

You can call me any name you want, I gave up caring about that kind of childishness in 4th grade!

“Sticks and stones, just sticks and stones...”

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