Posted on 11/28/2008 9:00:33 PM PST by ckilmer
The chasm between those who want President-elect Barack Obama to produce his birth certificate to verify his eligibility to hold the nation's highest office and those who simply support the Democrat is widening.
"The Constitution means what we today decide it means," opined one participant on a new WND forum that offers readers an opportunity to express their opinion on the birth certificate dispute.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Obama spent four years in Indonesia living pretty much as an Indonesian does and living as a Muslim
Obama spent the rest of his formative years in Hawaii
Sorry but Hawaii is barely part of America with its strong Asian and native Hawaiian Islander background
It has never been very "white" and very few blacks live there today and even fewer back in Obama's day
The native Hawaiians are agitating to be recognized as an Indian tribe so they can make mega bucks off casinos
Back when 0 lived there Hawaii was such an exotic multicultural stew that Frank Marshall Davis moved there with his white wife to get away from being hassled for this inter racial marriage. Such marriages were very far from the norm back then but barely noticed in Hawaii
Obama's Hawaiian years were from his birth in 1961 until he went Occidental College in LA at age 18
His interlude was ages 6-10 in Indonesia
The interesting part is that prior to Factcheck.org posting the disclaimer, no one had mentioned Kenyan birth, only the HI COLB forgeries.
Polarik's blog pretty much gives the rundown on the COLB in detail, and explains why the one image posted online is bogus. (they are all from the same scanner/source, apparently).
What the Kenyan disclaimer boils down to is the equivalent of mom calling the 5 year old in for cookies and milk, only to be told that 'he didn't break the glass in the bathroom', even though mom didn't know about that yet. It was an attempt at preemptive absolution posted with no issue to defend, and thus flagged that issue. Is it a planted red herring? I do not know, but it gives another avenue to investigate.
--But it may also be the mistake which indicated another dimension to the issue.
All that is really (most) relevant here is that he must be a natural born US citizen to Constitutionally qualified to be POTUS, the documentation should be provided (by court order, if need be) to prove that status or lack thereof.
If he lacks being a Natural Born Citizen, he is Constitutionally ineligible to be POTUS--all quibbling aside about exactly what that takes to be a Natural Born Citizen.
Donofrio's case, also questioning McCain's status, does two things by so doing.
First, it makes both candidates subject to the same level of Constitutional scrutiny as to eligibility, and second, removes the question of sheer partisan politics or racism, making the whole substantiative issue one of Constitutional eligibility.
Other cases will address the issue as well, if the SCOTUS will hear them.
If he is qualified, he will be sworn in, POTUS, and we go from there.
If not, that will raise another interesting and no doubt controversial set of issues as to who becomes POTUS, whether the election is valid, etc.
There may be violent acts perpetrated by persons unhappy with the outcome, either way. There may be economic problems associated with this as well.
My take on this is that:
1) It would have been much cheaper to release the information than to fight the release, ergo, there must be something disqualifying in the information. Merely embarassing would be just that, merely embarasssing. Obama has the popular vote and committed electors should he qualify, and, embarassment aside, would be POTUS. He should be able to handle that.
The entire presumptive push to call him "President-elect" well before the Electoral College has met, as well as the myriad trinkets and "commemorative' items being produced, not to mention the entirely fanciful "Office of the President-Elect" (which has no basis in law, Constitutional or otherwise), are all designed to increase the popular outcry from those ignorant of the Constitution and electoral process should Obama be disqualified. As such, that might foment unrest.
You said — “There would never have been an America, if the colonists had succumbed to your mindset.”
There would never be an America if the issues for those colonists all *happened in our generation*, versus happening in the generation that it did. And that’s why he’s saying that he doesn’t hold out much hope...
I don’t either. Remember, Obama *was elected* by a very large margin. That should be proof enough... LOL...
I believe that you can tell a boaster, a braggart - a puffed up wanna-be, if you watch them for a while. Over time you get a sense of a person's character. Even in cyberspace.
I believe that most of the people I've seen make mention of their intention to stand against threats to their liberty are telling the unvarnished truth. Most of these statements come unbidden, and are very personal. I've seen few that caused me to think they were anything but genuine.
This has happened before in many places. People in those times and places thought it couldn’t happen. The reasoning was that it just couldn’t. We know that it did.
The Germans were not cowards, nor were they stupid. They were not given a flashpoint. The time when the flag was raised and someone yelled ‘rally round me boys’ never came. So they watched as their freedoms and their decency were compromised bit by bit.
No, the Germans didn't have a flashpoint, to call them to arms. By the time the Nazi flag was raised, they'd been disarmed, and had no way to effectively resist. But, they were warned. Hitler spent years working his way up in national politics, with his Nazi party following close behind.
Germans shouldn't have feared to loudly criticize Hitler and the Nazis when they were still a small band of wacko zealots. In fact, I believe some did. Hitler even spent time in prison during the early days of the Nazi party. He wrote Mein Kampf there.
However, not enough Germans made a real effort to oppose the Nazis when it was apparent that they had grown in stature, and were becoming a real force in German politics.
It was quite obvious that they were militaristic thugs. They mocked themselves up like a para-military organization, and distributed wildly inflammatory leaflets, booklets and such across the country. The Nazis had already become what the Obots fuzzily dream of, long before they actually gained complete power over the German government.
People in Germany witnessed the rise of the Nazis and did nothing effective to stop them.
This is a bit different than what we've witnessed with Obama, though there are certainly parallels that can be drawn between the infiltration of the left in our society, and the rise of similar radical anti-establishment groups elsewhere.
I think my point is that we've all seen enough of the decline in our culture, and the concurrent rise of left-liberalism, to conclude that we'd better change our operating basis if we want to keep our country.
Since the Democrats took control of Congress in 2006, it's been clear that our side has wandered off the reservation, but with the introduction of Obama to the Presidency, and the left-wing radical agenda he brings, the urgency for us to swiftly change our modus operandi has increased to red alert stage.
When it comes it will come softly in the night and you will wake to a country you do not know. To act. To do something then, will require you to do something that many cannot do.
I don't think so. Obama is our "flashpoint". The Democrat/Socialists have overreached by running him for office. He is without doubt, the most radical candidate they could have chosen, and his brand of governance is far too steep a change for America to make without major fractures and upheavals.
No, it didn't come softly in the night. The radical Socialists might have won, had they played it that way.
America has been lazily snoozing for a very long time - only briefly awakened from its slumber by the events of 9/11. Through the 8 years of Bush, America even fell back into dreams, but Obama has awakened us with a crash. People who never cared about politics or current events before, are suddenly very concerned and interested in this transition to ---- what?
And because America is awakened, they are paying close attention. Much closer than normal. Due to Obama's radical agenda, it's unlikely that we'll snooze again anytime soon.
Obama and the Socialist Democrats have already blown it. They're under full surveillance, and have stupidly allowed their standard bearer to tip their hand. Now there is no way for them to covertly steal the last of our freedoms while we sleep. The coup is way off script and far ahead of schedule. Too bad. It's not going to happen now.
It's beyond surreal. For maybe the first three days after the election, I was in a sort of foggy dreamworld, except I'd wake up each morning, and find the nightmare was still there.
I'm sure that a lot of us are out of breath trying to keep up with the swift movement of events. I've decided to keep an ear out for important developments while I throw most of my attention into the bc issue. It's just too doggone huge to ignore for a political news junkie (and patriot) like me.
We're definitely in some strange territory now. I can agree with that.
The more I read, the more I’m starting to think that not only may he not be a natural born citizen, he may not be an American citizen at all.
The more I read, day by day, the more determined I get that even if all I can do is educate myself, write a couple of letters to the editor, and talk to a few people,sign petitions, maybe put a sign on my gate - (now I’m getting ideas) (and practice target shooting just for fun), by heck! I’m going to do that.
I feel absolutely determined that this pile of stinkin’ Obama is not qualified to be president by the rules of the Constitution, he’s nothing but a lying thug of a non-citizen most likely, and I’ll be damned if I give up now, or worse, yet, try to instill hopelessness or defeatism in others.
You said — “If you’re that scared, you need to leave here, because when the moment comes, I know that you won’t have my back. And don’t think for a moment that you can slink into our brigades later. You will be remembered for who you are, vampire.”
You’ve already shown that you’re “whacked out” and not too much good for anything useful on this issue (besides posting wildly... LOL...).
If you think that someone posting on a computer screen on this board is going to have your back — you’re delusional.... LOL... The only people who will have anyone’s back will be the ones that you know personally and have associated with or will associate with you in real life, at one time or another (if they so choose to do so...). It’s not going to happen from typing on your keyboard. It will happen if someone gets together with you personally.
All that is going on here is nothing more than information, which you carry back to your *own real life* (not something you just do on this board). It’s what you do in “real life” that counts and not what you do or say here...
Free Republic is useful for an information source that you can carry back out to your own real life. In that, it doesn’t matter what one says here, because you don’t have to carry out to your own real life what you don’t want to...
You said — “Obama has screwed up irretrievably with his obvious forgeries of government documents. He’s toast. Either now, or later, but he’s toast.”
My prediction is that he’s not toast, in terms of being sworn in as President. And once he gets to that point, he won’t be toast either, all through his term.
And I’m not saying that because I’ve been posting all along that we should ignore the birth certificate issue. On the contrary, I’ve been saying that he has to prove it, just like John McCain did. But, on the other hand, I didn’t vote for him, and a lot of others did — a vast majority did.
So, it’s from seeing the results of the election, the results of all the warnings about the birth certificate before the election, the results of several court cases so far and seeing how this is being totally ignored by Obama and his team — *and* — it’s also being ignored by the present administration, when they’ve been asked questions about it.
Therefore, with all that evidence — in spite of all the “enthusiasm” of posters here — this issue *is going nowhere* — and that result has nothing to do with my thinking regarding the birth certificate or your thinking regarding the birth certificate.
Obama has not produced a birth certificate for one simple reason: He doesn’t have to. Nobody is holding his feet to the fire. Even conservative news sources will not touch this. A court ruling may eventually force him to reveal his BC, but there is zero positive evidence that he was born outside of US, and much evidence that he was born in Hawaii including a birth announcement in a newspaper.
This is a fun issue to follow, but don’t expect anything to come out of this. Obama is the next POTUS.
You said — “I think my point is that we’ve all seen enough of the decline in our culture, and the concurrent rise of left-liberalism, to conclude that we’d better change our operating basis if we want to keep our country.”
The fact that you may have not noticed or have willfully ignored is that the Germans who did see the problem *did not* have the power to effect the change that was needed. AND, likewise, you may very well find that you and others of like-mind, *may not* have the power to effect the needed changes you say have to be done in order to “save the Republic”.
The election showed, clearly that people who are of the mindset of most in this forum of Free Republic *do not consist of the majority* — and that’s why Obama won the election.
If that remains true — you will simply *not* have the ability or means to *effect* the necessary change.
—
Now, this says nothing about not trying, as will typically be the “comeback” on this. But, you’ll notice that I said none of that. What I said is that you may be ignoring the fact that you can do all that you can do — and it’s *not enough* to effect the changes that are needed....
—
There’s another element in this, too. It’s that God has determined, already, how things in the world are going to pan out, in order to bring about His conclusion for Israel and the *judgement of the nations* in the world, as it says in the Bible.
It’s *highly likely* — that if we fail to *effect the necessary changes* — that this reflects the “judgement of God” upon the nation for the majority choosing things which are going to be *detrimental* to our Republic and well-being as a nation...
And as I see it, the judgement of God is coming upon this nation, regardless of what you think or try to do.
Remember, the founding fathers said that they couldn’t found this nation absent the help of Almighty God — and likewise — you’re not going to stop the judgement of God, upon this nation, no matter how good your intentions are, if the majority are against you and the judgement of God comes because of that.
A) It wasn’t a vast majority.
B) It would have been far fewer without the MSM presstitutes in his thrall, illegal foreign money flowing in, ACORN and associated fakery, and McCain apparently (to my eyes) throwing the election.
No, not a vast majority.
Obama has not produced a birth certificate for one simple reason: He doesn’t have to.
You have to produce a Birth Certificate to get a drivers license.
But you don't need one to put your finger on the nuclear trigger?
.
I too agree with Windflier’s post >> “There would never have been an America, if the colonists had succumbed to your mindset.”
You said — “... but there is zero positive evidence that he was born outside of US, and much evidence that he was born in Hawaii including a birth announcement in a newspaper.”
There’s not zero evidence that he was born outside of the US. There is the testimony of his grandmother in Kenya who says she was there in the hospital when Obama was born and saw him born there. That’s pretty substantial to have such a close relative say that.
Secondly, there was an interview from a radio station (given on a Free Republic thread, too) where the Kenyan Ambassador in Washington DC said that Obama was born in Kenya. And he was also saying that the people in Kenya generally knew that this was the case, too (besides himself knowing it).
And then you mentioned the birth announcement in the paper — well..., that’s easy enough to produce. It’s not proof of birth there — but only proof that someone was wanting to establish that fact at that time. And, of course, Obama’s mother wanted to establish that fact, for her son (and not because she thought he was going to need it to become President, but because she wanted that advantage for him).
As I understand it, she couldn’t fly out of Kenya at the time, because the airlines would fly someone as pregnant as her, so she was stuck until the baby was born. So, (I would say) she had to make a plan where she could get something established that would give credibility that Obama was born in the U.S. And that led to her immediately flying out of Kenya, after he was born and establishing this charade in Hawaii.
The evidence is not stacked all one way, like you seem to think it is.
HOWEVER, whether anyone will act upon it in a legal and authoritative way is quite another matter. And in that sense, I don’t think it’s going to be done legally and authoritatively...
Makes ya’ wonder what some folks are smokin’...
Barry already admitted that he used to "smoke".
You said — “No, not a vast majority.”
Yes it was when I look at Bush’s two terms and Clinton’s election. It was certainly greater than any of those. That qualifies (for me) as a vast majority, without a doubt.
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