India's 'lost Jews' wait in hope

BBC News ^ | August 18th, 2003 | Geeta Pandey

[missyme]

A team of senior Israeli rabbis is due to rule soon on whether thousands of Indians who say they are members of one of the lost tribes of Israel can settle there.

Only 5,000 of the Benei Menashes have converted to Judaism Shlomo Amar recently led a delegation of rabbis to the north-eastern Indian states of Manipur and Mizoram where members of the Benei Menashe tribe live and practise Judaism.

At the Beith-el Synagogue in the Manipur capital, Imphal, nine men wearing knitted skull caps read silently from the Old Testament.

Four others stand on a wooden platform in the centre of the room as a young man reads from the holy book under the supervision of an elderly priest.

These people claim to be one of the lost tribes of Israel.

Recent discovery

Tongkhohao Aviel Hangshing is the leader of the Benei Menashes in Imphal.

We found that the stories, the customs and practices of the Israeli people were very similar to ours

Tongkhohao Aviel Hangshing "We are Benei Menashe, because we belong to the Menashe tribe," he says.

"Menashe is the son of Joseph, who was one of the 12 sons of Jacob. So we are the lost tribe of Israel."

Mr Hangshing says for thousands of years they did not know they were lost.

"We found out only 27 years ago," he says.

"When the Bible was translated into our language, in 1970s, we studied it.

"And we found that the stories, the customs and practices of the Israeli people were very similar to ours. So we thought that we must be one of the lost tribes."

Saturdays are observed by Jews the world over as the Sabbath, the day of rest, and the members of the Benei Menashe community meet for morning prayers at the synagogue in Imphal.

A lamb-skin scroll of the Torah, is unrolled and then rolled up again as each reader finishes his part.

Hope

There are more than 300,000 Benei Menashes in Manipur but most of them follow Christianity.

Only about 5,000 have converted to Judaism, most of them during the 1970s.

Mr Hangshing says although India has treated them quite well, they do not consider it their home.

Lucy Vaiphei (right) is hoping to join her family in Israel The recent visit by a delegation of rabbis from Israel has given new hope to the members of this community.

Caleb, a 24-year-old college student, wants to go to Israel because he says it is the land of his forefathers.

Amram is studying to be a lawyer. He says Israel is the promised land, for him and the others too.

"In Israel it will be easier for us to practise our religion."

In a chamber partitioned from the main prayer hall, about a dozen women join in the Sabbath prayers.

Lucy Vaiphei is the caretaker of the synagogue.

Her parents and six siblings have emigrated to Israel in the last few years and she is now looking forward to making the move herself.

Michael Freund, director of Amishav - an organisation that helps Jews move to Israel - says he firmly believes that Menashe is one of the lost tribes of Israel.

"We have brought over 800 of them to Israel," he says, "and the remaining people also want to emigrate".

Mr Freund says that last year the new Israeli interior minister, Avraham Poraz, suddenly declared his opposition to bringing the Benei Menashes into Israel.

"But I'm confident that if the chief rabbi issues a ruling saying that the Benei Menashes are indeed descendents of the Jewish people and should be allowed back home, then he will have no choice but to let them in."

So while the rabbis in Israel take a decision on whether or not to grant the right to emigrate to Israel to the Benei Menashes, this community here is waiting with bated breath - and praying.

[Cronos]

Up to the time the northern kingdom was captured, the estrangement between Judah and Israel was in force. Then Israel was captured and never heard of again. There hasn't been a opportunity to reconcile

Well, there are references to the northern tribes in the south AFTER the exile. The Assyrian monarch, Sennacherib also claims on his own that he shipped out only aroudn 27,000 "nobles" and that would make sense (as Obelix woudl say: "people who've lost their heads don't know what to do").

The ones that remained were ravaged or merged with the neighbouring nations -- all similar in language and culture and given the northerners lack of faith, similar in beliefs. Those that went to Assyria -Babylonia would have been absorbed in the related Amorite people there. Some did return with the Judeans but the northerners never had the cohesion -- political or religious that the south had -- note that Gad, Reuben and East Manasseh seem to have been absorbed during Kings by the neighbouring tribes of Moab and Ammon

Note also that the south was dominated by the Judeans who absorbed the Simeonites who were placed amongst them and the small tribe of Benjamin.

When the Jews returned they were still under Persian and then Greek dominance. THey were only united under the Maccabbees. THis, IMO is the fulfilment of those prophecies you quote

[Cronos]

Who knows are there any Authentic Blond Asian Girls? LOL

I can name one Authentic BlondE Asian girl: Maria Sharapova, born in Siberia

[Cronos]

There is one Actress on TV I cannot think of her name she is also Slav her mother was married to a Member of Slavic Royalty,

I hate to break it to you but there aren't any members of slavic royalty -- except for the Romanovs -- most of the Eastern European Kingdoms were given German Kings -- like Greece, so we have Prince Phillip (Queen Lizzi's hubby) who is Prince of Greece)

[missyme]

NO I am sure it is royalty of Slavic Bloodline, What is her name?...She was on Dynasty I think...Yes that picture resembles the skin and haircoloring of me and my kin..

[missyme]

When I was a Kid I use to attend A Serbian Orthodox Church in Los Angeles, All Serbs, yet some looked very Greek and some looked very nordic...

[missyme]

Catherine Oxenberg! (Figured it out!)

Was born in New York and raised in London. She is the daughter of HRH Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia and the granddaughter of the former Regent of Yugoslavia.

She attended Harvard University. She debuted as an ivy-educated model, her face graced the covers of Cosmopolitan, Glamour and Interview. She transferred to Columbia University and studied psychology, philosophy and mythology. She is married to Casper Van Dien. They have two children together and their other 3 children also live with them!

[William Terrell]

I believe it is recorded that some northern kingdom residents migrated to Judah because they didn't condone the behavior there before the Assyrians and before Babylon. Also there were remnants of the northern kingdom that weren't rounded up and escaped the Assyrians.

And we have a "sands of the sea" problem, if the northern kingdom was just simply assimilated into the surrounding people at the time.

There is one possible fulfillment of the prophecy.

Matthew 10;5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

That seems pretty clear. I can't see it referring to the remnants of Judah there at the time. They had already been preached to, and the disciples were themselves Judah, or Benjamin, or Levite. Where, then, did the disciples go?

Any other reasoning that the prophecy was fulfilled demands that the House of Israel returned to the homeland in vast (sands of the sea) numbers, which there is no evidence of.

If the Jews of today are sole surviving remnants of all of Israel and Judah, there are only 4 or 5 million, and not a foretold blessing to all nations, except for some scientific inventions here and there.

Prophecy fulfilled doesn't ring true, or fit all of the necessary specs in the Hosea prophecy or the sticks prophecy. To interpret them in the way you do, one must labor numerous assumptions and discount population numbers.

In the absence of direct, agreed upon and compelling evidence to the contrary, the plain wording of the prophecy has to be assumed.

[Alouette]

Was Abraham and Moses Black? I think most of us that are Caucasion have been taught that most if not all Biblical Characters were White..

Nowhere in the Bible is there such a concept as "race" based on skin color. People are identified by nationality or by tribe. Only in "Song of Songs" is there a mention of someone being "black and beautiful" but it is a poetic allusion and not a literal description.

[Alouette]

couldn't it be possible for a non-Cohen to marry an African woman, then for THEIR children or grand-children or great-great-grandchildren to marry into the Cohens?

This question is actually addressed in the Talmud (I don't remember which mesechte) that a non-Jew once came to Hillel and said that he wanted to convert to Judaism so that he could serve in the Temple as a Cohen. Hillel explained to him that if he converted to Judaism, and married a Jewish woman, that his daughter could marry a Cohen and his grandchildren would serve in the Temple. The man converted and eventually his grandson did become the Cohen Gadol (High Priest).

[wardaddy]

Bttt..i'm not much on moral or cultural relativism either.

[Cronos]

The King of Yugoslavia was a German prince chosen to be the king

[Cronos]

And we have a "sands of the sea" problem, if the northern kingdom was just simply assimilated into the surrounding people at the time.

Not really -- the term is a metaphor, you can't be in reality as numerous as the sands of the sea unless we go an colonise the galaxy and become a population of trillions.

It would be logical and historically accurate to say that the population would have been assimilated into neighbouring, similar groups, especially considering that the northerners were actually worshipping the gods of their neighbours and probably intermingling.

[Cronos]

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

The term Israel and Judah are used interchangeably at times after the Exile. That would suggest a merging of the peoples and identities.

Any other reasoning that the prophecy was fulfilled demands that the House of Israel returned to the homeland in vast (sands of the sea) numbers, which there is no evidence of.

as I said, they returned in vast numbers -- remember that even 100,000 IS a vast number and definitely so in ancient times

If the Jews of today are sole surviving remnants of all of Israel and Judah, there are only 4 or 5 million, and not a foretold blessing to all nations, except for some scientific inventions here and there.

The Jews of the world number 24 MILLION AT LEAST many jews, northern israelies etc married outside or merged, so Iwoudl say that definitely middle easterners have israeli ancestors, to some extent Iranis, Indians, Europeans etc. (most of those in regions easily accessible by persons living in the Roman Empire) have some Jewish blood, Chinese, Africans, native Americans would have very little if at all

[Cronos]

Prophecy fulfilled doesn't ring true, or fit all of the necessary specs in the Hosea prophecy or the sticks prophecy. To interpret them in the way you do, one must labor numerous assumptions and discount population numbers.

The prophecy DOES ring true and most important -- it is an OLD TESTAMENT prophecy, with complete closure with the Resurrection. The prophecies of the OT are closed once and for all with Christ's death, the OT ended with his Birth. Any prophecy concerning our times would be contained in the NEw testament

[William Terrell]

"Sands of the sea" would mean vast, a significant percent of a world population. I divided 5 million Jews by 6 billion world population and got a number in scientific notation.

It would be logical and historically accurate to say that the population would have been assimilated into neighbouring, similar groups, especially considering that the northerners were actually worshipping the gods of their neighbours and probably intermingling.

If the House of Israel was absorbed into a surrounding populations, then how can Israel and Judah reconcile?

[missyme]

Chinese, Africans, native Americans would have very little if at all...So are you saying that besides these ethnic groups, most of Europe and the Middle East would most likely be part of one of the lost tribes of Israel, since we would of evolved from the true 'Israelites"

[Cronos]

"Sands of the sea" would mean vast, a significant percent of a world population. I divided 5 million Jews by 6 billion world population and got a number in scientific notation

Well,

1. firstly, "Sands of the sea" woudl mean a large number of people, it doesn't say anything about they being a percentage of a larger number of people.
2. Secondly, the number of worldwide Jewry is 24 million

[Cronos]

Chinese, Africans, native Americans would have very little if at all...So are you saying that besides these ethnic groups, most of Europe and the Middle East would most likely be part of one of the lost tribes of Israel, since we would of evolved from the true 'Israelites"

Not exactly -- I'm saying that

1. There were no "lost Tribes", they were assimilated into different groups including the Judeans, Arabs, Chaldeans, etc.
2. Most ARabs and other Middle Easterners bar Iranis would be definitely descended from a number of Israeli tribes (The idea of a group of people being descended from only ONE tribe is laughable)
3. Europeans, southern Europeans who were part of the Roman Empire would have a percentage of Israeli blood in them (Note: this would not be of any specific tribe but of all tribes though MOSTSLy Judeans -- both those descended from the tribe of Judah and others who assimilated into Judah) because the dispersion of Jews were into the Roman Empire
4. When the northerners were dispersed they merged with the native populations across the Middle east, so the place to search for these northerners is either among present day Jews or among Middle Easterners.
5. Europeans, Indians, Iranis etc. would have a low amount of the blood from those who merged with neighbouring tribes after the exile
6. Those tribes are disbanded, no longer exist, kaput. Just like Simeon disappeared by the time of the Kings, as Reuben and Gad disappeared into the Moabite and Ammonite kingdoms by the latter Kings.

[William Terrell]

The term Israel and Judah are used interchangeably at times after the Exile.

Judah and Benjamin were Israelites.

remember that even 100,000 IS a vast number and definitely so in ancient times

Not against the world population claimed for those ancient times. Also, the population of Israel extrapolated form the number of fighting men in the Bible would have been several million. Many would have been killed by the Assyrians, but they had a couple of centuries to reclaim their numbers.

The Jews of the world number 24 MILLION AT LEAST

The last numbers I saw for present day Jews were about 4 or 5 million, this being acknowledged by Jews. Where did you get yours?

[Cronos]

most of Europe and the Middle East would most likely be part of one of the lost tribes of Israel, since we would of evolved from the true 'Israelites"

WE, Aryans did NOT evolve from the Israelites, our relations or ancestors existed alongside them, either as civilised Hitties or Persians or Ionic GReeks or Indians or as barbaric proto-Celts, prot-Germanics and proto-Slavs.