Suggested Swift Boat Vet Talking Points - Please Contribute!

FR | 8-10-04 | Bob J

[Bob J]

One never knows who is trolling FR for tidbits, sound bites and suggestions. Please use this thread to offer your own talking points and sound bites for the Swifties and media.

PLEASE - Sincere, serious and well thought out sound bites/talking points only! Let's make this a neat, compact reference thread for the media and Swifties. If someone refuses to cooperate, please self moderate (abuse button)!

[Pharlap]

There is no explanation for Kerry's lying about being in Cambodia. This type of false self-promotion has no place in the White House, especially in wartime.

[A Navy Vet]

Haven't read the entire thread, but just in case:

Kerry was a war hero, before he was a war criminal (by his own Congressional testimony), before he was a war hero.

[Chode]

i'm trying to find an electronic copy of Form-180 to send him

[afnamvet]

When Kerry testified before Congress in 1971, he alleged war crimes and confessed to participation. How can Kerry be a hero if he committed war crimes? Which Kerry story is true? Why won't the media ask him to elaborate? There's more evidence that he was a war criminal than there is that Bush went AWOL. Why isn't that news?

This the issue that I and fellow veterans ask. I'm asking for a real journalist in the main stream media to do some investigative reporting; someone who cares about truth and the guts to report it.

[A Navy Vet]

Think I read somewhere, but can't seem to find it.

"No one ever heard of someone receiving a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and 3 Purple Hearts within only 4 months in country".

Also, at the time Kerry volunteered for Swift Boat duty, it was considered fairly safe as they only patrolled the coastal waters. The mission was changed (Operation ?)to the more dangerous inland waterways AFTER Kerry became a Swifty.

Who gets a Silver Star for shooting one fleeing injured enemy?

[Intolerant in NJ]

a) do you have to be a passenger in a car wreck to be a witness to a traffic accident?...in fact, might you not have a better overall view of what happened during the accident from outside the car?.......

[Bob J]

Plus, I don't think there is any evidence, other than Kerry's own statements, about the killing. Previously, Kerry stated others saw him shoot and kill the VC, but they all have claimed Kerry chased him behind a hooch and didn't see the deed done. For all we know the VC might have attempted to surrender.

The story is the VC fired an RPG, they shot up his position with 50 caliber, they VC starting fleeing and either he was shot then or was already injured. I've seen no evidence the VC had any more grenades or was preparing to fire again.

What are the military rules for an encounter like this? If he is injured and offering no resistance, is Kerry obligated to capture him and return him as a prisoner?

[A Navy Vet]

Somewhere I read (maybe on the Swifties forum) that the top North Viet Namese commander, in his memoirs, had been considering a truce '68 - '70 because he was losing every major battle. Watching what was happening in the USA with the public opinion and groups like VVAW gave him the idea he would eventually win and continued to fight at the cost of more Americans. I'll see if I can find it.

[A Navy Vet]

" What are the military rules for an encounter like this? If he is injured and offering no resistance, is Kerry obligated to capture him and return him as a prisoner?"

Not being a grunt or being in Nam, I wouldn't know the specific ROE (rules of engagement)...other than it's always been okay to kill retreating enemy. So I have no problem if Kerry shot him the back as claimed, nor if he were a teenager, so were ours. Until the enemy lays down there weapons and throw their hands up, they're fair game.

[EdReform]

BTTT

[A Navy Vet]

For photos of the close proximity of these Swift Boats in the canals, go to Swift Boat Pics

[A Navy Vet]

Here are more talking points: Answering Democrat Attacks

[RottiBiz]

The following quotes from the book "Following Ho Chi Minh: Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel" written by Bui Tin, are enlightening:

On the American Tet 1968 military victory:

"Our losses were staggering and a complete surprise. Giap later told me that Tet had been a military defeat, though we had gained the planned political advantages when Johnson agreed to negotiate and did not run for reelection.

The second and third waves in May and September were, in retrospect, mistakes. Our forces in the South were nearly wiped out by all the fighting in 1968. It took us until 1971 to reestablish our presence but we had to use North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. If the American forces had not begun to withdraw under Nixon in 1969, they could have punished us severely. We suffered badly in 1969 and 1970 as it was."

And on strategy:

"If Johnson had granted Westmoreland's requests to enter Laos and block the Ho Chi Minh trail, Hanoi could not have won the war.... it was the only way to bring sufficient military power to bear on the fighting in the South. Building and maintaining the trail was a huge effort involving tens of thousands of soldiers, drivers, repair teams, medical stations, communication units .... our operations were never compromised by attacks on the trail.

At times, accurate B-52 strikes would cause real damage, but we put so much in at the top of the trail that enough men and weapons to prolong the war always came out the bottom .... if all the bombing had been concentrated at one time, it would have hurt our efforts. But the bombing was expanded in slow stages under Johnson and it didn't worry us. We had plenty of time to prepare alternative routes and facilities. We always had stockpiles of rice ready to feed the people for months if a harvest was damaged. The Soviets bought rice from Thailand for us."

And the left:

"Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement.

Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and would struggle along with us .... those people represented the conscience of America .... part of it's war-making capability, and we turning that power in our favor."

http://www.vwam.com/vets/buitin.html

[A Navy Vet]

Can we get someone to post the photos provided in my post #91? I don't have a host anymore.

[A Navy Vet]

Thanks. So we can blame Kerry for indirectly prolonging the war.

As a side note: Damn LBJ and McNamara.

[rolling_stone]

i'm trying to find an electronic copy of Form-180 to send him

Hmmm Why don't we all send one to the news media and ask them why he won't fill it out? Bombard them with the truth...

here is the form

http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/standard_form_180.html#sf

[tioga]

johnfkerry will lose this election during the debates......I am confident of that.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Since he is a snob he naturally will tend to lose the debates; the trouble is that the "objective neutral moderator" will have some ability and desire to downplay that.

[dartuser]

Perhaps with some detailed leg work, someone might undertake the enormous task of finding out the programming schedule of the available radio station that Kerry was listening to on Dec 25, 1968 ...

Not sure how anyone could do that ... but someone with exceptional contacts and skill might undertake this effort. Perhaps we should ask Kerry what he was listening to ... would their have only been one station in English broatcasting into Cambodia. Was it VOA or Armed Forces Radio? ... Was reception even possible in Cambodia?

Just a group of random thoughts ...

[tioga]

-yeah, they tried that with the algore and even claimed he won the debates. Bring it on.